JKD lead punch stronger than karate lead punch

[Castlevania]

Sounds funny to me.
Does someone have any explanation/proof on this?

[Ish]

who said that cos i dont agree.

[shaolinboxer]

I always hated the comparisons bruce lee used to make between JKD and karate. They seemed like simple gross misinterpretations of karate.

Anyhow, there are many ways to throw a strong lead...saying on style is "stronger" seems silly since strength in a punch is a relationship between puncher and target.

[Dark Knight]

What works well for one person may not work for another. To say punching one way is better is incorrect. If there were one best way we would all be doing it.

[fmann]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Knight:
What works well for one person may not work for another. To say punching one way is better is incorrect. If there were one best way we would all be doing it.[/quote]

A Journal of Martial Arts article reported that the vertical fist was biomechanically more stable than the traditional horizontal punch at least in terms of Isshin-ryu karate. Also, adding a twisting motion to the punch did not have any significant effects on the force of the punch.

This finding is further illustrated by history, where famous bare-knuckle boxers such as Jack Dempsey emphasized the use of the vertical fist, along with depictions of ancient Greeks and Romans using vertical fist punches in sport or gladiatorial events. It is also believed, though I don't know if substantiated, that initially, Filipino MA's also emphasized vertical punches.

So regardless if there is a best way to punch, I'm sure as hell most people aren't doing it. And I'm sure as hell most people aren't going to be swayed by what I stated above.

[Cyborg]

But it goes beyond a vertical fist. You should end up with your fist inline with your body like you raised it directly out from your side. Try this: put yourself in your finishing position with your normal punch and have a friend slap your fist. See how far it moves you. Then put yourself inline like I've described and have a friend slap your fist.

Those who try it won't need to ask what I'm trying to prove.

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

[PaleDragon]

that not many people use vertical fists anymore?...we do...we're taught any punch above your shoulders should be a vertical punch. maybe i missed your point...

[fmann]

I'm saying that most people don't use vertical/inline punches, even if taught it and even if it is the "better" punch.

[shaolinboxer]

Personally, I like to use a 3/4 punch...between vertical and horizontal.

[LEGEND]

JKD lead punch should be done with your strong side forward!!! Most styles have there strong side as there rear side...as a follow up finisher.

A

[Cyborg]

No that's not what I meant. Don't look at the fist itself, look at the alignment of the fist with the body. When you have proper alignment you transfer the power from your hips better to the target. That was the point of my little demo...

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

[reemul]

most Shaolin systems are ambitextrous and don't favor a side.

physics & anatomy

A normal punch lacks the bone alignment to obtain full skelatal support. When thrown the impact travels up the arm and quickly dissipating at the shoulder socket as the torsoe then acts as a shock obsorber, twisting, which in effect reduces impact.

When your arm is raised to your side, the impact is backed by the skelatal system. The impact travels down the arm to the shoulder socket which is inline with the rest of the skelatal system making the support more rigid, allowing more mass to be added to the power formula power = mass * acceleration.

[fa_jing]

Reemul - yes, but consider the cross, it is stronger than the lead punch, yet the punch does NOT end up to the side of your body. Your logic might be good for a lead, though.

-FJ

[desciple]

I 'm no experienced karate practitioner but i have noticed that the fighters don't put their body weight into their punches unlike jkd'ers . If i 'm mistakened, just enlightened me on the matter .

[LEGEND]

First off the JKD lead punch is using your stronger punch which essentially is your rear cross but used as a jab. Confused???

I think Bruce was talking about the karate reverse punch being weak cause the rotation effect...

Just go to a heavy bag and hit it with both ways.

[CannonFist]

I don't think Bruce ever mentioned that the JKD puch being stronger than the Karate puch. But I think he did make a comment about the Karate punch being like being hit by a baseball bat while a gungfu/JKD puch is akin to being hit by whip chain. He even made sound effects like 'whack' and 'whang' when he was explaining it.

Most JKD practitioners use a vertical punch which is obviously stems from Bruce's foundation in wing chun which he modified to include the western' boxer's body mechanics. Also Dan Inosanto's expression of JKD is through the Filipino arts and the Filipino arts are big on using the vertical fist too. I think the vertical fist is heavily used in JKD because many JKDers are heavily into trapping and the vertical fist facilitates trapping much more effectively.

All thinkg being equal I think the horizontal fist generates more power with the extra twist and torque but I think it may be minimal as the vertical fist has more thanenough power for a knockout.

[stumpydee]

"A Karate Punch is like an iron bar when it hits it goes whack. A gung-fu punch is like an iron chain with an iron ball attached to the end and it goes whang and it hurts inside" Bruce Lee (1965)

It is true that JKD practitioners use the Verticle fist but this is not true for all punches in JKD the cross can be verticle or horizontal, so can the Jab, and we even throw in a 45 degree angle on the fist as well.

I think as stated before the major difference is that in JKD you use your entire body to get behind every strike. When you punch the movement comes from the rear foot and through your body to your fist, this puts the body weight into the punch instead of just using the strength in your arms.

Damian

[Cyborg]

My understanding of the vertical/horizontal fist is the change of position it creates for your elbow. I use it on the jab (corkscrew) to go around thier lead and with the cross to protect me.

[umgong]

In '64, Bruce challenged any karateka of shodan or higher (1st degree black belt) to go against him in full contact.

He used mostly the vertical (one inch punch)...they had to cut us off because the line was too long, but Bruce kept knocking them down or out with his one inch vertical lead hand punch and anyone in front of him couldn't touch him.

Months later we gathered up about 10 blackbelts from various karate styles. We went to his kwoon to challenge him and see for ourselves. We were all known tournament players at the time. Most of us were knocked down or out on the first couple of techniques from Bruce. I became a believer.

Try this...get someone who can help you, he or she must be about 200 pounds or heavier, you need to be about 110 pounds...try to get that kind of ratio (2:1) then see if you can move the person as if they were thrown down. You will be using a vertical punch starting at about 3 inches away from their body and you hitting the chestplate area of their body. Once you can knock them down with one punch, then you will understand the power of Bruce's vertical punch.

Give them a thick pillow so you don't hurt them. Then use your strongest karate punch, see what happens. Please let us know your results.

[jmdrake]

Hello all,

Ok, this might not be the "politically correct" position to take. Yes I know some karate guys hit harder than some JKD guys. But the JKD punch is potentially stronger. What I mean is if you take the same person with the same attributes and teach him to punch both ways he should be able to hit harder with the JKD punch. Part of this is due to the structural alignment of the verticle fist punch (or 3/4 fist punch) as well as the "follow through" generated by the short arc of the JKD punch as opposed to the "out and back" of the karate punch.

If you want a detailed explanation of this check out the video "Power Punching" from Health for Life. While the tape is not billed as a "JKD" tape, it goes through the mechanics of the lead straight punch and gives solid explanations for them

Regards,

John M. Drake