Gung fu world

[mantis7]

Hi All I thought I would stir up the pot today…


I was having a discussion with a few friends about the state of the gung fu world of today. As the old generation grows older and dies out it seems through miscommunication and misinterpation that the gung fu world is not what it should be. There are only a handful of schools out there that still sticks to fighting as the theory and concepts in a given system dictates. I have noticed most of the schools of today teach the forms and when it comes to there combat they fall into the KICKBOXING dilemma. Even though the kicks and punches and throws are simple base techniques in the system but that is far as they go. Is it possible for someone to spar another person using the concept of the system with gloves on. I believe it is but it seems that it is not being tried. This can be seen in the all gung fu tournaments with the continuous sparring matches. Are these fighters skilled? I say yes but are they using their gung fu I say only to a small level. The state of shan shou is a great one full contact fighting but it is still kick boxing fought on a platform with throws. You see boxing skills and wrestling throws or shuai jiao throws and kicks. Even though this is a good way to test your skill you are not demonstrating your gung fu skills. I am not putting down these great men who have the heart to step on the platform but I would love to see these men actually use their styles in the ring.

With the advent of NHB not one gung fu stylist has come forward and used there given style. They use their kickboxing skills and throws as well as grappling. There is nothing wrong with this at all even if they are successful but this makes gung fu look like it is in a sorry state. People who had interest in studying looks and say or wonder if they are better off studying MMA because you can not tell the Difference between the two. Which is not a good thing.

I know with this statement everyone is going to say well I use my tech in the traditional sense. Even I had to reevaluate my training. To compensate for a grappler I had to train my grip to adapt my tech for attempt to take my legs. I had to modify my sprawling tech while applying my traditional tech and theory. I would love to see a NHB gung fu match on the lei tai stage with no glove as it is now legal in most states and I would love to compete in one.

The state of the shan shou is good but it can better. We have thai boxers, wrestlers, people with lil or no gung fu skills with a good amount of kickboxing and grappling skills dominating the circuit. I digress on that topic as these men on the lei tai stage are all warriors but I do not aspire to be there level but go beyond it.

I would love to see the wing chun stylist go at it with a choy la fut stylist slug it out with chain punches and long arm tech. I would love to see a mantis stylist go against the iron bridge of a hung gar stylist but what can you do.

The only thing I can say to you all is evaluate the way you do fight is it just using bits and pieces of your system to add to your kickboxing or are you using your whole system in the way it was created to be used. If you practice bong sau or a diu sau ****** use it or don’t bother training it. If you practice training chin na apply it and see if it works. Shuai jiao has the meanest throws I have ever seen. They are touted as being the best around. SO throw the person and if done right they shouldn’t get up afterwards.

I know you are all going to ask do I compete in shan shou or NHB. I never had the chance to enter a tournament but I do train for the event (full contact with gear) I also like to test my skill with no gear. I test my skills and I don’t mind getting my A$$ kicked to see if it works. I rather bleed and receive bruises in a friendly match then get killed trying to defend myself on the street. I am not immune to the kickboxing construct and I do mantis. I thought everything I was doing was gung fu but I found out it wasn’t. I meet someone who showed me hand speed that can’t be followed and other things that opened my eyes in just a few movements. I now am striving to study GUNG FU and use it the way it was intended to be used. I just hope I am not the only one who thinks like this.


Vince Night

“Never talk because with one word you can lose your life”

[EARTH DRAGON]

Just a simple note, but if you are studying kung fu just for the sake of trying to prove that its fighting alone should have to be proven to people, then you are studing an art for the wrong reasons and are missing the bigger peice of the pie.

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[mantis7]

earth dragon says

Just a simple note, but if you are studying kung fu just for the sake of trying to prove that its fighting alone should have to be proven to people, then you are studing an art for the wrong reasons and are missing the bigger peice of the pie.

not to get into anothe topic but wude is not taught in a combat system it taught be each and every individual sifu. My post was to state the way gung fu is being portrayed. If you study the arts for enlightenment that is your callin but you are still learning a comabt art plain and simple. Gung fu know not evil or good. That is based on a person personal ideology. If you like to add moral concept to your training that is a personal veiw. But the question still is on the table Is gung fu now a days just kick boxing, but I also was pointed to see things anotehr way by dixon fung that the low level or intermediate level fighters are just starting to grasp the full use of gung fu so they are still coming to grips on how to use there style in the way it was ment to be..


ill ask another reason to you then Y is gung fu studied then... is it for personal improvment or englightenment or combat. That is a personal road each person must ask themselves but the bottom line gung fu is for fighting the moral side is determined by each individual and should not be imposed on others i their pursuit..

Vicnce night

[tiger lui]

when sparring should you take out your opponents knee,rip his balls off,crush his throat,gourge his eyes,plant him face first into the ground,pop his shoulder out of its socket,rearange his face with your elbow to see if it works? hmmmmmmm.cheers ;)

[Scarletmantis]

Sure, why not test your skills? Chinese Martial Arts are designed to give a practitioner a set of tools for combat. Some arts, such as Taiji and Ba Gua also happen to produce great health benifits. Other arts, such as Hung Gar and Northern Mantis are very good for developing strength and Cardiovascular fitness.

I assert that these benifits are the fruit of proper training in the fundamental COMBAT techniques/ exercises of your system. They happen as a by product of your training.

Peace of mind and confidence can come from any martial art as a result of becoming comfortable with conflict.

It's true that these are good benifits, but it's also true that you can find them elsewhere. Aerobics classes, running, cycleing and swimming are more efficeint at developing aerobic capacity than say Kung Fu or boxing. That's why so many fighters supplement thier training with those activities.

Progressive weight training will get you bigger and stronger than kung fu forms ever will.

Modern Psycotherapy, Zen Meditation, and Conflict Resolution classes can develop a remarkable degree of self confidence and mental stability.

I train in the CMAs because I am a fighter. That is my way. I acknowledge the benifits of my training, but I am also aware of the limitations of said training.

:)

"Master, here is a stick. Please beat me for my insolence." - KC Elbows

[mantis108]

The problem in the Kung Fu world is equaling Form training as the entire training and believing it will do. That's not the only available training method out there for Kung Fu. Surely, forms of a style do articulate certain attributes and principles of that style. A Wing Chun stylist doing Sil Lim Tau is definitely different than the Mantis stlylist doing Bung Bo. That's "text book" and is easy to "sell" to the public. The Sifu gets the pay cheques by having students to do "dictation". The students rearly have to think or really use it. It's a "Oh, look I do Kung Fu therefore I am somebody." thing. That's why Mckwoons and McDojos are popular.

Equally, Kickboxing brings in the pay cheques because it is simple and relatively effective especially in a sport event type of deal.

So why dig the pay dirt? There is no real reason today to dig the pay dirt except for those who have seen it and still have faith in Kung Fu.

Just let it be.

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[mantis7]

when sparring should you take out your opponents knee,rip his balls off,crush his throat,gourge his eyes,plant him face first into the ground,pop his shoulder out of its socket,rearange his face with your elbow to see if it works? hmmmmmmm.cheers

well what you say is OHHHHH so true but at the same time how do you know the weakness in your attack or defense unless your partner gives you a little love tap. I rather bleed in training than die in comabt. If there is a opening in my defense i want my (sparring partnr) to pop me one let me know where i am lacking. Now you arent going to break his or her leg or knee but if you have a opening i am going to let you know about it in a eye opening way. eiter you are a gung fu warrior or a paper tiger. If you are a warrior you would understand the actions if you arent you are going to complain about it and say that is not how we are supposed to train. Gung fu isnt all about the forms the forms shold only be a small portion of your training seeing if what you have should be the majority of your practice.

Its time to finally burn those paper tigers.

Victor