Do u guys believe in STREET JUSTICE???

[LEGEND]

I'm planning on majoring instead of POLITICAL SCIENCE...Adminstration of Justice and want to know u're thoughts.

A

[Budokan]

Good luck, Batman.

K. Mark Hoover

[Chang Style Novice]

I believe in the rule of law. The sad fact is, many laws are unjust, and many officers of justice are unjust.

To the cops on the forum: nothing personal, I know there are far more good cops than bad. It's simply that bad cops are in a position to be really really bad.

_______________________
I am the Grand Ultimate Silk Pyjama

[shaolinboxer]

Screw Batman, Casey Jones would whoop his arse any day.

Anyway, street justice? No thanks.

[Kristoffer]

hmmm..

~K~
"maybe not in combat..... but think of the chicks man, the chicks!"

[Wongsifu]

man im all for street justice , if there was a coutnry that had made street justice legal , and abolished guns but brought back all those medieval weapons and kung fu weapons i would move there immediately i would sell all i have and move there.

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[Wongsifu]

can i say i love the thought of street justice just one more time , does that mean i get counted as two votes :D

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[Cody]

There's a place for it. Problem is. When? There are junctions where street justice and the formal kind can meet.

The so-called justice system is an alternative to what we are led to believe would be utter chaos. Any culture that I have seen in books or practice has some rules and ways of enforcing them. The degree to which one could step outside of the system as such (street justice, condoned or apart from the system) might not be equivalent. I'm no expert on this. Just mentioning possibilities that I can think of.

Justice is defined by the law. I have heard it said in a courtroom (during jury duty) that the courts have nothing to do with justice, but with upholding of the law only. I would think there are exceptions to that, where the judge and lawyers are of good faith and smart enough to use the law to do what is right for All concerned. Yet, a system where a lawyer is bound to go to any legal extent to prove the innnocence of a guilty client is a travesty. Instead, reparations and repair should be uppermost, not getting someone off the hook. All the world's a stage, especially the courts.
Loop holes should be replaced by Grey Areas. The judges and lawyers should study and understand the heart, mind and spirit. For that is what is to be judged. To judge an act apart from that is ludicrous.

I guess one problem with street justice are appearances and lies. People get set up. Minds can be messed with by those who have that ability. Aside from that, I read a study years ago where the validity of witness statements is often questionable, even when deception is not intended. On the basis of a well-fashioned lie, someone can be beaten or killed. With street justice alone, there might be no recourse. I don't see gangs as a viable alternative to what we have.

Yet, if one is falsely accused within this legal system. i.e., someone says they were attacked and there were no witnesses to first lifting of hands, and no injuries. One has the opportunity to show up in court to defend, but that is not mandatory. It should be because not showing is an admission of guilt, and a restraining order can be issued on that alone. Let's say the person accused is innocent, but does not show up to protect another person, to give him a chance to correct the wrongdoer (extenuating circumstances), because you can't believe something like this could happen (emotionally traumatized leading to extreme fear of the system that is mistrusted to begin with), that the accuser (who was the attacker) could be so vile.

What if the person, after a number of years, finally goes to a lawyer (prior to sending some letters, including a Statement of Innocence to the person who should have taken care of this mess) and is told that the case could have been won because it could have been proven that the other person lied. End result. An unjust judgment, a ruined life, and if the innocent accused should try to help/and resume a relationship, there is leeway for what could be seen to be justifiable force. One could say this could be seen as sanctioned street justice. Hence, the crossover.
Albiet the person who did not come forward was not adequately informed and placed the welfare of another above, yet the error was due to a good heart and not guilt. The original attacker continues on, the person who should have set things straight is so compromised that this cannot be done. The one who has a clue as to what is going on has no credibility, except from some who have had experiences with the wrongdoer. Even with that, the compelling, but unsubstantiated reasons given by the falsely accused as to why the person who should have prevented this from happening couldn't, are not believed.

I have given the above "theoretical" case as how the law might serve no one and how street justice can sneak in the back door.

There is no perfect way. If one has a judge or a tribunal, who are wise, I guess that might be as good as it gets, provided that the laws are simple and flexible (realistic in terms of the human condition).

While there are times when street justice might be expedient and correct, to maintain a population along these lines, as the ways things are done on a day-to-day basis, makes me uneasy.

Cody

[Water Dragon]

Do u guys believe in STREET JUSTICE???

Yes

Most actions of men can be explained by observing a pack of dogs. Not wild dogs, just neighborhood dogs who all scurry under the fence on the same night and set off together to reclaim a glimmer of the glory their species possessed before domestication.

[Sharky]

what is street justice?

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[LEGEND]

Budokan...lol...
Cody...very good eloquent point.
I don't know if I can be a police officer and believe in street justice. I do believe that the guilty should be punished...but there are instances that for example...someone close to you betray you...not once...but twice or more...do u execute your own moral law to punish them??? No longer I believe that being the GOOD/NICE GUY win in this world.

A

[yenhoi]

I do not believe in Street Justice in America.

Unless someone is willing to entirely revamp our current legal process and institutions.

Judges, and indeed the entire legal system in the United States is Political and Representative in nature.
Street Justice would not be - if we attempted to graft this into our existing processes and institutions we would only meet with failure.
Who gets to kill who, and how could you come up with a process that would be different from what we have to decide that? You would get the same system just more brutal, with even more political, moral, and logistical problems.

I dont think 'street justice' would work under other systems like France or Russias either.

strike!

[qimaster]

street justice is the taking of vengence upon a wrong doer by one or more of the inhabitants, of an environ where the wrong doer is caught, and the punishment meted out.

such examples include catch a rapist in the act, and one or more of then menfolk bashing the guys brains out with tire irons and baseball bats

catching a burglar outside your house and pistol whipping him into a coma. (If you catch them inside your house after dark, the laws in Texas pretty much say you can end the burglars life if you feel you or the lives of your loved ones are in imminent danger. There is no duty to retreat in ones own domicile)

those are instances of street justice.

I for one am all for street justice, properly administered, and not automatically meted out at the spur of the moment. One must always seek to preclude that unfortunate wounding and maiming of an innocent man...

[Shaolin36]

I think everyone fights on the street with a code of ethics. Some may show their enemy mercy while others may take enjoyment on putting people in the hospital. When I fight on the street/in clubs, I use the mentality of " I'm going to beat this man until he cannot defend himself then stop. I do not wish to maim anyone, just to send a message that anyone that persists in starting a fight with me will be beat. Some of my friends like to maim, I do not belive in this,for karmic reasons.
Back to the question- Do you beleive in street justice?

I would say everone has their own equivilance to what street justice is and if they are any kind of man that is how they approach the situation tactifully.

Shaolin36

[Sharky]

Oh, then LOL, yes, yes i do.

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[JWTAYLOR]

Of course, but I also believe in the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, man loving lesbians, and other mythical creatures.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Cody]

You make excellent points.
1. The issue of punishment. This is difficult for me because I can't see punishment as a reformation, except in the sense that Maybe the person will refrain because of fear of punishment. I understand your point of view. Not finding fault with it. Just that, well, I want an actual correction to result. I would like a better person to come out of it all (no, not psych surgery, lol). This would be time intensive, and probably not practical, but I feel this way on an emotional and intellectual level.
I think there are times when punishment serves to reinforce the negative mindset that brought about the unwanted behavior to begin with. I think that justice that is there to punish is not doing so good a job.

2. betrayal by someone close to me. Again, punishment is not my aim. Sometimes the betrayal can occur because the person is mentally ill, and you see and pinpoint it, even if others see something off but can't figure it. I would see it rather as a case where not only have I been betrayed, but the person has betrayed himself. This can get real complicated. Suffice to say that a betrayal can take place without the full will of the person betraying.
If a person "whole" in mind betrays me, again, I would want to rectify the situation, restore my honor if that is an issue, but not so much to punish. It would be more a matter of dis-empowering the person. Timing is of the essence. Miss the opportunity to do it right and you're up the creek without a paddle. If the paddle comes back, one can go away or paddle in for another round.

3. Something you didn't bring up, but I will. If I am attacked (with intent to harm, not just to bully), or a stranger in my view is, or a loved one, and I am physically able to take action, then my street justice button is pressed, and I will do what I think is right. I do not like hurting people. I am not advanced enough to be able to entangle an uncontrollably violent opponent in his/her own forces to bring them safely down. I am handicapped. Hence, my intent would be physical safety of the innocent, without conscious concern for the outcome for the perp. This does not discount the presence of subconscious concern.

4. About good guys not winning. Look, a person can be nice, but if he/she lives stupid, ain't gonna win. I think that the goodness has to be mixed with a certain toughness and ability to see thru situations without making excuses for the other person's behavior. Reasons are one thing; excuses another. Very often there are fleeting clues that something is amiss.
It is recent that I have realized that my idea of everyone having (except for someone really evil, and then, what is that?) this kernel of rightness in them that would come thru in a moment of truth, is naive and untrue. Some people do and some don't, but don't count on it. Don't count on anything except knowledge of yourself and what you will or will not do, honesty in your feelings, self-acceptance and love, the ability to see flaws and work with them.

Often, being good is defined in a philosophical or religious context which might not fit the person, or have a utopian flavor which stunts individual development and the stages involved in that. Just because one doesn't subscribe to a given moral code and makes one's own rules, doesn't make you not good. Goodness is a relative term. I think that sometimes people are made to feel bad cause they can't measure up to someone else's standards and they overlook how they are outside of that framework.

qimaster. Interesting and well done. The issue of vengeance cannot be overlooked, as much as I try to turn from it. It's there.
At what point would I say that the perp is helpless and stop? My proven tendency is not to hit someone who is down, except to take a "playful" swipe not meant to contact as a sort of punctuation. I do not see myself doing lethal or critical harm unless there was a clear and present danger without certain ability to contain the perp until help arrived.

Cody

[yenhoi]

Lol. :D

my bad, I do.

strike!

[Ryu]

I can't believe what I'm reading here!
I don't know why anyone has not done the topic justice, and is just lying around avoiding the argument! That was absolutely the worst, most uneducated, sickening, and down right ridiculous thing I think I have ever heard on this forum!
Absolutely disgusting. I can't believe you would even post that...


Casey Jones could in NO way beat Batman!
Not on Batman's worst day!

:D
Ryu

http://home.vobis.net/user/roy/anime/images/streetfighter15.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[WongFeHung]

if there were really justice in the world, we would be allowed to fly over seagulls.

[Serpent]

Thank god you said it, Ryu! Someone had to.

[joedoe]

I thought there was this wonderful thing called due process and being judged by a jury of your peers.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[Turiyan]

"The only thing that follows a man in death is justice"

Turiyan gold, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan
"A Brahmin, coming into existence, is born as the highest on earth, the
lord of all created beings, for the protection of the treasury of the
(natural) law. Whatever exists in the world is (by right), the
property of the Brahmin; on account of the excellence of his origin
(primogeniture and eminence of birth) The Brahmin is, indeed, entitled
to it all" --C1V99-V100 The laws of manu

[Serpent]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ABandit:
I thought there was this wonderful thing called due process and being judged by a jury of your peers.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi[/quote]

There is - but it has nothing to do with justice any more, unfortunately.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You cannot defeat the Bronze Girls of Shaolin!

[joedoe]

I know, but I thought that they were the tenets upon which law and order was based in countries like the USA, UK, and Australia. The fact that you could not be summarily judged and the sentence carried out.

I am not saying that the system is perfect. In fact, I will be the first to say that we do not have a justice system, we have a legal system. They are two very different animals.

However, when people decide it is time to take justice into their own hands and deal in street justice, that is when not only the law but also the order ceases to exist.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[SanHeChuan]

I believe in street justice, I just don't think it should be legal, if you believe that a person is guilty enough and that they will not be punished by the law, so that you are willing to administer justice you're self despite the consequences then GOOD.

Case in point the first American diagnosed with AIDS went around sleeping people after he knew that he had it, when they where “done” he would tell them that they were going to DIE. The LAW couldn’t find anything to charge him with. Somebody, anybody should have KILLED this *******.

===============================

"Civilize the mind but make savage the body"

Hou fa xian zhi
-start later, but reach first.