Wrestling school........

[Leonidas]

.......location in nyc. I'm NOT doing it to become a " MIXED MARTIAL ARTIST"(shudders) but i think its real cool. I studied some when i was real young but quit. I know this is not the forum for this but since most people come here....... anyhow answers will be much appreciated.


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[truewrestler]

well...kungfu has wrestling...just go to the corner and you will see a school ;)

search online for a wrestling <font color=red>club</font> in new york city. There are site with lists of club by state/city. Try http://www.intermatwrestle.com

[Ryu]

Why do you shudder at being a Mixed Martial Artist?

Ryu

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/powell/123/Imagenes/kenshin.jpg

Rimpleback Pumpernickle Kez Kez Vuy Tranh Yanagasawa Fujikage Fistibuns....
the lost son of the Fistibuns clan...


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[DelicateSound]

Because of the small minority of MMA arse-holes like Ralek, that come on this site, **** us all off and give MMA guys a bad rep.

"Tomorrow's life is too late. Live today."
Marcus Valerius Martialis

[truewrestler]

whether he knows it or not, he would be a mixed martial artist

[Leonidas]

I wouldn't if i didn't decide to use it in a fight. How am i going to beat someone with a submission move. Are we going to get up, brush each other off and then shake hands?

"Uh.... yea buddy you beat me fair and square. I guess i'll go home now, sorry for trying to bash your skull in and steal your money". :rolleyes: :p

[Leonidas]

Another thing, TF is right but I dont have anything against people who study it, i dont really agree with it though. My belief is that anyone who masters a "traditonal" style can be just as good as a "Mixed Martial Artist".It's just that many people dont master it since its more difficult. Most people are not willing to put in the time to do it, or they just dont have time. I just like wrestling as a sport.

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[Ryu]

Hmmm. Well respectably, I'd like to say this.

"Submission" means that someone "submits" to you.
They want no more of what you're dishing out. Ground and pound is a submission. If I take someone down, mount them, and throw my head and elbow into their face over and over, and they are knocked out, or simply can't fight anymore than that is "submission". He "submitted" to me.

Also, submission holds are not "holds" on the street or in a real fight. If I catch someone with an ude garami (Americana, paint brush,) and I'm in a real fight, I won't try to make him tap, I will tear the joint out with a quick move. I won't ease into it like some people think when they hear of grappling arts. Grappling can actually be very quick, brutal, and with a lot of striking power. Striking an opponent on the ground is much tougher for them since they cannot "bob, weave, or retreat" at all like they can while standing.

So submission is a thing to look for in a streetfight, because it may very well be beating someone's face in. (sorry for the graphic use of words by the way :) )

Ryu

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/powell/123/Imagenes/kenshin.jpg

Rimpleback Pumpernickle Kez Kez Vuy Tranh Yanagasawa Fujikage Fistibuns....
the lost son of the Fistibuns clan...


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Leonidas]

I dont thinks thats allowed in wrestling in you know what i mean.

[Ryu]

Of course not, but you were talking about streetfighting. :)

Ryu

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/powell/123/Imagenes/kenshin.jpg

Rimpleback Pumpernickle Kez Kez Vuy Tranh Yanagasawa Fujikage Fistibuns....
the lost son of the Fistibuns clan...


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Martial Joe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I wouldn't if i didn't decide to use it in a fight. How am i going to beat someone with a submission move. Are we going to get up, brush each other off and then shake hands? [/quote]


WTF...

Why would putting some one in an armbar have to show them respect after they give up or you break their arm?


What you said is very stupid...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[Leonidas]

I was just making a point Joe. Your obviously not acquainted with sarcasm.

[Leonidas]

........and another thing Joe. It wouldn't be called wrestling if i pushed the guy to the ground and started punching his face in. That's why i said i wouldn't use wrestling moves. You ever heard the saying you fight like you train. Thats why i take martial arts. If you read the post i said i enjoy wrestling as a sport. Thats not the same as training for self defense. :p

[Ryu]

Getting the guy to the ground in order to punch, do anything, etc. requires wrestling.

Wrestling may be a sport, but it is a very effective fighting art as well. Lots of sports are, Boxing for example, Muay Thai, Judo, etc.

Taking someone down and punching them may not be considered "collegiate wrestling" but the ability to take them there, and control them while on the ground requires knowledge in wrestling.

Ryu

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/powell/123/Imagenes/kenshin.jpg

Rimpleback Pumpernickle Kez Kez Vuy Tranh Yanagasawa Fujikage Fistibuns....
the lost son of the Fistibuns clan...


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Leonidas]

I dont think tackling someone to the ground---(hell, football players do it all the time, but you wouldn't call them skilled in wrestling)---to repeatedly punch them in the face takes skill, and "collegiate" is infact what i wanted to learn or something like it, preferably freestyle :D


,

[Ryu]

I think you'll speak differently when you begin wresting for a while. A wrestling takedown is much different from a football tackle. A wrestling takedown is a skillful manuevre that has to penetrate, go through, and break down the opponent's defenses. It is certainly not putting your head down and rushing into someone.

Taking people down is an artform in itself. To be able to do it against skilled practitioners is difficult. Wrestler's spend years perfecting that aspect of their game. In the street, if you don't know how to defend it (something wrestling, again, will show you) you're going down to where those punches will start coming.

Wrestling is much much more complicated than you are letting on. I hope you do well in it...
you may be in for a surprise. :) Train good.

Freestyle is going to be a bit rougher than collegiate wrestling IMO. They will allow more slams, more suplexes, etc. Freestyle is tough.
If you think you got what it takes, go for it. :)
I wish you luck, man

Ryu

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/powell/123/Imagenes/kenshin.jpg

Rimpleback Pumpernickle Kez Kez Vuy Tranh Yanagasawa Fujikage Fistibuns....
the lost son of the Fistibuns clan...


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[jimmy23]

Ryu is totally correct.

"A group of guys walks towards, and pass by you. It seems that nothing happens. Later, of by "surprse" a person with a big hammer slam on your skull. True story. That person still have a big hole on his head.
What can you do??????"

[Leonidas]

Thanx Ryu..... I hope I do well too. I did know wrestling takes skill, thats why i wanted to learn.

[Grahf1]

Leo-

Thinking that you will be just as good as a mixed martial artist by mastering one style is just unrealistic.

I've seen high ranked 4th degree blackbelts in Judo get spanked on the ground by BJJ blue belts. I was beating Judo blackbelts on the ground with just 6 months of BJJ training. Why? Because no matter how much judo you do you are not gonna be really good on the ground. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule but I am talking in general terms.

You know, this is what makes me laugh when Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do, etc. people claim that their style has groundwork. Judokas have a much more solid ground game than any of those styles, yet they still suck on the ground.

I recently grappled with someone who did Tang Soo Do for 10 years. He said there was some grappling in it. Well, I made him tap twice pretty easily, and I had only been doing BJJ for 6 months at the time.

I don't see why anyone would be against cross training. NOt only is it the most effective, but it is more fun too. I can't imagine locking myself in one style only.

[Ryu]

LOL, I don't know what judo people you're wrestling, but that reply was completely ignorant.
All the judoka I've known have loved BJJ, and want to learn it to make their newaza better.
Most judoka I've known have backgrounds in wrestling and BJJ as well.

Real judo focuses on groundfighting. Unfortunately will all the tournaments going to the throwing aspect of the art, lots neglect newaza. But it's not what good judo is all about.
I do think BJJ gives you good ability on the ground, and I myself have beaten judoka too, but there's a difference between fighting someone who doesn't know how to move on the ground, and someone who trains in it quite often.
Most judoka I have known (and those that are affiliated with competitive schools, etc) are gearing their training quite a bit with newaza.
Coming in saying that they all "suck" is what gives BJJ practitioners a bad name.
Thanks for keeping that name going...

Ryu

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/powell/123/Imagenes/kenshin.jpg

Rimpleback Pumpernickle Kez Kez Vuy Tranh Yanagasawa Fujikage Fistibuns....
the lost son of the Fistibuns clan...


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[truewrestler]

Oh, god, what a dynamic post. From wrestling clubs to football tackles. From MMA vs Traditional Arts to Judo vs BJJ. What a crazy thread.

[Ryu]

This place wouldn't have it any other way. :D

Ryu

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/powell/123/Imagenes/kenshin.jpg

Rimpleback Pumpernickle Kez Kez Vuy Tranh Yanagasawa Fujikage Fistibuns....
the lost son of the Fistibuns clan...


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Leonidas]

How did Brazilian "wrestling" creep in :D. How is mastering one style unrealistic. Thats whats wrong with martial artist today . Everyone wants as many techniques as possible instead of mastering one style they jump to another one. How do you expect to see if "traditonal" styles work if you dont put in real effort. All the old Masters people look up to today mastered their chosen style of fighting. Most rarely ever cross trained in another style and if they did it was only one.(a few exceptions would be the ones who made new styles, but everyone can't do that). If i fight a wrestler and end up on the ground, i'll just train harder. Ground fighting just doesn't equate to grappling. A kick to someones head could be considered groundfighting(it's alot quicker too,especially if you dont have the stomach for jointbreaking. *!CRACK!*). What's with the shameless advertisement Grafh1. Anyhow thats just my rant. You have your opinions.

[This message was edited by Leonidas on 12-04-01 at 12:17 AM.]

[Grahf1]

LOL, I don't know what judo people you're wrestling, but that reply was completely ignorant.
All the judoka I've known have loved BJJ, and want to learn it to make their newaza better.
Most judoka I've known have backgrounds in wrestling and BJJ as well.

Your point? I was talking about pure judoka. I was using pure judoka as an example of why cross training is better.


Real judo focuses on groundfighting. Unfortunately will all the tournaments going to the throwing aspect of the art, lots neglect newaza. But it's not what good judo is all about.

You obviously didn't read the part of my post where I said Judoka aren't good on the ground in GENERAL, and that there are always EXCEPTIONS.

I know very well how old school judokas were very good on the ground, but that time has passed. Modern Judokas are not good on the ground unless they have cross trained in BJJ or wrestling.

You are using the same old argument Tae Kwon Do guys use. Whenever TKD is bashed, the TKD guys say that "real" TKD has good handwork and groundwork. Sounds just like you.


I do think BJJ gives you good ability on the ground, and I myself have beaten judoka too, but there's a difference between fighting someone who doesn't know how to move on the ground, and someone who trains in it quite often.

The reason why BJJ has a better ground game is not just because they train in it more often. It's the way they train the ground. There are so many more details and variations of the techniques in BJJ.


Most judoka I have known (and those that are affiliated with competitive schools, etc) are gearing their training quite a bit with newaza.

Most judoka I have known also train in Newaza a lot, and that is why I said judo has a better ground game than TKD, Tang Soo Do, etc. But it doesn't

My original point was to contradict what the threadstarter said about mastering one style. Many people think their style has everything, and they don't realize what its missing until they try another style.

Judokas are a good example of this. Many of them say that BJJ guys are "just doing Judo newaza" or that BJJ is "just a fraction" of judo.


Coming in saying that they all "suck" is what gives BJJ practitioners a bad name.
Thanks for keeping that name going...

Wrong. I've done Judo longer than BJJ, so I represent Judo just as much as BJJ.