A small look at Cheung Hung Sing, Founder of the Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut style

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nyjdJqzntQ

[YinOrYan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nyjdJqzntQ

Wonder if that umbrella form at 3:47 to 4:05 is Choy Lee Fut...

[hskwarrior]

Wonder if that umbrella form at 3:47 to 4:05 is Choy Lee Fut...

That umbrella form is exclusive to the Tsui Cheung/Fut San Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut lineage. in fact, all of the kung fu you saw in this video is exclusively hung sing Choy Lee Fut of the Fut San branch.


Chan family may have an umbrella form, but that wasn't it.

[YinOrYan]

That umbrella form is exclusive to the Tsui Cheung/Fut San Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut lineage. in fact, all of the kung fu you saw in this video is exclusively hung sing Choy Lee Fut of the Fut San branch.


I wonder if there is much overlap of those salutations with Shaolin forms because it looks like I may know yet another Choy Lee Fut form that was attibuted to something else. Sorry my form has not been refined enough to post any examples.

[hskwarrior]

Sorry my form has not been refined enough to post any examples.

PLEASE post something that may be along the lines of what you're saying. having nothing to compare to, doesn't help much.

[YinOrYan]

PLEASE post something that may be along the lines of what you're saying. having nothing to compare to, doesn't help much.

Okay, the following video is an example from the 1970's. My theory is that in the 1950's the sifus in San Francisco and Los Angeles were copying each others forms, then in the 1970's when everybody started learning them, some names of the forms got misattributed...

https://www.tiktok.com/@twerkytigress/video/7355195633948462366

[hskwarrior]

those salutations with shaolin forms

im still waiting for you to tell me which salutations? I can tell you for certain that at least for my lineage going back to fut san, the salutations or hoi jongs are not from shaolin but are revolutionary in nature.

[YinOrYan]

im still waiting for you to tell me which salutations? I can tell you for certain that at least for my lineage going back to fut san, the salutations or hoi jongs are not from shaolin but are revolutionary in nature.

What I meant by salutations in that video is the first and last 4 seconds. It is almost the same as your aforementioned footage. All I recognize is that it is of Buddhist origin but not what style. BTW to download the clip from Tiktok one can just long-press the screen and select Save. Then perhaps someone can single-frame through some details and tell me if this looks like a Choy Lee Fut form...

[hskwarrior]

What I meant by salutations in that video is the first and last 4 seconds.

those are called Hoi Jong's and the closing section. they have revolutionary meaning. For example, in my lineage we have the OVERTHROW THE QING RESTORE THE MING in the first section of the form.

[hskwarrior]

BTW to download the clip from Tiktok one can just long-press the screen and select Save


That sword form is NOT a Choy Lee Fut form, at all. it's a form from Wong Ark Yuey, the guy in the video who is a movie star as well, was a student of his. again, southern flavor, NOT choy lee fut

[YinOrYan]

those are called Hoi Jong's and the closing section. they have revolutionary meaning. For example, in my lineage we have the OVERTHROW THE QING RESTORE THE MING in the first section of the form.

So does it mean that Hoi Jong's are unlikely to have a basis to consider a form Choy Lee Fut?

[hskwarrior]

So does it mean that Hoi Jong's are unlikely to have a basis to consider a form Choy Lee Fut?

The Hoi Jong's are how one can identify what branch of CLF is doing the Choy Lee Fut. Each lineage has one we call an earmark. Lau Bun his his, Lee Koon Hung has His, Chan Yong Fa has his, buk sing clf has theirs. as CLF people we know what to look for to know if something is CLF or no. For example, that sword form you posted is not CLF but is a 5 family style under Wong Ark Yuey, who is NOT choy lee fut. But all southern Styles share some of the same techniques or concepts as before there was southern kung fu, there was northern style.

Again, as CLF practitioners, we know what is CLF and what is not based on the form itself.




Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
those are called Hoi Jong's and the closing section. they have revolutionary meaning.

All of CLF do NOT share the same HOI JONG. Does that mean it's not CLF? NO. It means each branch of CLF has elements that are exclusive to each branch, but not shared amongst non choy lee fut schools.

Another example is the bow. different styles of southern kung fu that have a triad connection, will share the 3 pointed bow because of them paying respects to the mother society. but still each style is different, and may perform the 3 pointed bow differently from one another as well.

Does having a HOI JONG in CLF mean Chan Family CLF can share the Fut San Hung Sing Hoi Jong or the Buk Sing Hoi Jong or vice versa? NOT AT ALL. they or we would be called "BITERS" or taking something that isn't ours and using it as ours.

[YinOrYan]

But all southern Styles share some of the same techniques or concepts as before there was southern kung fu, there was northern style.
Again, as CLF practitioners, we know what is CLF and what is not based on the form itself.


Given that southern Styles share so much, how can one know what moves may have been re-joined at a later time, if at all? Do you know of any taxonomies published or is it mostly dependent on being interpreted by whoever has most the variety of experience or exposure to the forms? I remember not long ago there was a guy from a Chinese University trying to survey all the forms but kept getting bogged down on how they mutated in America into something like name-brands.

[hskwarrior]

Do you know of any taxonomies published or is it mostly dependent on being interpreted by whoever has most the variety of experience or exposure to the forms?

You're asking that of a martial art that was super secretive due to their connection to a hard banned secret society. LMAO.


Given that southern Styles share so much, how can one know what moves may have been re-joined at a later time, if at all?

Who cares, we know all southern are related in one form or another? But, if you're wing chun, and you start performing the fut san hung sing hoi jong, then we know you took it from us. Much like Sin Kwan The of Shaolin Do stole my lineages 5 animal form. i can tell based on movement along who is who. when you're immersed in it your whole life, one can easily point out things.


I remember not long ago there was a guy from a Chinese University trying to survey all the forms but kept getting bogged down on how they mutated in America into something like name-brands.

Please explain further. what was his purpose for surveying them? what was he looking for? why did he do this? what was his prime objective? and what purpose would it surve him?

[YinOrYan]

Please explain further. what was his purpose for surveying them? what was he looking for? why did he do this? what was his prime objective? and what purpose would it surve him?

Now that all the world's kung fu forms have been spilling-out on internet videos, it has exposed many forms that were super secretive, so this naturally creates a need to document where these things were coming from. Oral folklore is no longer adequate and the subject matter will sooner or later be taken up in Universities (like that one I mentioned in China, among others). I don't think they are just doing this because they have an axe to grind for their own schools of thought or even to boost their local Cutural Tourism. The content of the forms will get studied worldwide because the nature of forms themselves are a much more reliable than untangling various legends/marketing claims of different lineages and practitioners.

I recall you mentioning that you were writing a book on Choy Lee Fut. I wonder if you have done much work on identifying the variety of forms? It would be nice to even see list like Doc-Fai Wong has on his website but with some attributation of origins:

https://plumblossom.net/ChoyLiFut/formslist.html

[hskwarrior]

I recall you mentioning that you were writing a book on Choy Lee Fut. I wonder if you have done much work on identifying the variety of forms?

My Book is called "The American Hung Sing Kwoon" from Fut San to Gum San. It will be covering historical things like The Green Grass Monk, how he got his Green Grass name, and more then down the lineage from Cheung Hung Sing to Yuen Hai to Lau Bun to Jew Leong to my Sifu. then it will cover OUR material. maybe focus on traditional and modern ways to use OUR CLF.


It would be nice to even see list like Doc-Fai Wong has on his website but with some attributation of origins:


Doc Fai wong listed sets, he did not attribute to who created the sets, which falsely leads one to think Chan Heung created all of those forms, which he did not.

[YinOrYan]

My Book is called "The American Hung Sing Kwoon" from Fut San to Gum San. It will be covering historical things like The Green Grass Monk, how he got his Green Grass name, and more then down the lineage from Cheung Hung Sing to Yuen Hai to Lau Bun to Jew Leong to my Sifu. then it will cover OUR material. maybe focus on traditional and modern ways to use OUR CLF.


I look forward to your book. Let me know if I can help with anything, even proofreading.

[hskwarrior]

I look forward to your book. Let me know if I can help with anything, even proofreading.

THANKS, and i will.