Why it is so important to do push ups?

[jackiech]

Why it is so important to do push ups?
If you do punches you get more power and speed instead you do push ups.

[Robinf]

Push ups are another way to strengthen pectoral and tricep muscles.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[Repulsive Monkey]

are quite detrimental to upper body internal softness. One can impede the flow of Qi severly thorugh doing push ups, and, well, they are so limiting in their function, its better to do some over all exercise than something like that.

[SwaiingDragon]

there are dozens of ways to do them-

if you don't belong to a gym try this set

15 with your upper body on a table -working you lower chest and upper abs

15 flat (traditional)- working your center chest

15 with you legs raised- focusing more on your upper chest and shoulders

(repeat all 3 sets two more times)

keep in mind the closer your hands are together the more you are working you triceps and the center chest- like i said there are dozens of more ways to do push ups-

stretch aftwards- any chest exercis will tighten you up-

the benefit is stamina-

[Apprentice]

and pushing power can be important, which is developed from pushups...
If you are a grappler you need to be able to push your opp. hard, and pull for complete control...also, it looks funny when someone is starting a fight with you and they push you and you dont budge(rooted)...and u push them and they fall on the ground, hehe, well i get a kick out of it...not to mention it makes ya look good ;)

"True victory is giving all of yourself without regret"-Ryu

"Your best move is the move you regret not doing"-Fei Long

"Are you prepared to fight today? Someone else is as we speak"-Apprentice

[IronFist]

15 with your upper body on a table -working you lower chest and upper abs.

Does someone else want to take this one or should I?

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

[IronFist]

oh yeah, Robin, don't forget pushups will nuke your front (anterior) deltoid muscle as well!

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

[rubthebuddha]

it's all yours, iron

-rtb

[northern_fist]

I find that doing pushup are great for not only the arms and pecs but great for total upper body conditioning. Sometimes I do it for stregth and sometimes i'll do it for stamina

great ones for the arms are

on the knuckles and with the palms down fingers towards the toes

for conditioning knuckles and on the back of the hands

for upper body
do as many as you could 100
really push it
build character . If 100 isn't enough
well do as many as possible for 1 minute
( see fang shen do 1 minute working Jan 2001 Inside Kung Fu )


Dennis Momy

[Robinf]

Thanks, Iron,

I knew I could count on you. With that in mind, I'll leave it to you about the pushups on the table working lower chest.

The pushups I do are:

flat: on palms--elbows out and elbows in, on fists (for my poor little wrist), hands/fingers make a triangle.

I also use push up bars because of my rehabbing wrist. I'm at about 90 - 95% with my wrist.

Hey, Iron, have you had any luck with one armed pushups? I imagine those work the stabilizers (abs, back--I haven't memorized all the back muscles yet) more than regular pushups, taking away from working the pecs and delts. Curious.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[SwaiingDragon]

everyone has to have a commment...

[Silumkid]

shaking head sadly...

OK guys, I know this is a kung-fu forum and all, but why is there always somebody who says (forgive the 'Return of the Dragon' quote) "Physical training is quite useless!"

Please pull your head out of the sand. If your internal practice is such that it suffers any time you use a muscle, you need to rethink your training. Hey, have any of you "physical training only hurts your kung-fu" guys ever heard of something called the "yin/yang theory"??? You know, light/dark, male/female, soft/hard, internal/external? Anybody?

"I'll use my bare hands...against any weapon!"

We are trained in wushu. We must defend the Temple!

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

robin . ..

please don't think i'm being an a$$ cause i really am curious about this.

i know i usually do my best to offend people but this isn't my objective now.

what do pushups do for your boobies?

seriously . . . does it lift them, make them smaller, push them out because of the muscle being built behind, does it do anything at all?

i know what bodybuilding does to boobies, but that's way differant than toning up with bodyweight exercises ... isn't it?

where's my beer?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i do an internal style and we do pushups.

where's my beer?

[Ginger Fist]

Why it is so important to do push ups?

--its not.

If you do punches you get more power and speed instead you do push ups.

--if u want 2 b able to strike with power, train striking with power. s.a.i.d rules. push-up mechanics all wrong 4 striking, plane of orientation wrong, recruitment patter wrong, speed of movement wrong, rate & angle of loading wrong.

[Ginger Fist]

Push ups are another way to strengthen pectoral and tricep muscles.

--& since the majority of the power production comes from muscle groups other than the little 1s u note ur point would b ?

[IronFist]

Swaiing Dragon said:
15 with your upper body on a table -working you lower chest and upper abs

I've written in more detail elsewhere on this forum before about this, so I'll sum it up here:

You cannot work part of a muscle. There is no difference between UPPER abs and LOWER abs. The abdominals are ONE muscle, with 6 heads (which are what you are seeing when you see someone's six pack). If the abs contract, the WHOLE THING contracts, not part of it. Same thing with pecs... incline bench does not work the upper pecs, decline bench does not work the lower pecs. The pectoralis major (pecs) is one muscle. Either it's contracting or it's not. The upper part cannot contract while the lower part relaxes, or vise versa. Same for all muscles, you can't contract just your lower quads or upper biceps, etc.

If anyone who challenges the above information can send me pictures of them doing the following (and thus proving me wrong), I will retract all my statements. Additionally, they will have successfully proved all anatomy textbooks wrong:
1) Flex ONLY your upper pecs
2) Flexing ONLY lower pecs
3) Flexing only the upper portion of your biceps
4) Flexing only the lower quads

People think that such and such exercise works the upper abs, or the lower abs, but they're wrong :)

Hope that clears stuff up. Incline bench works the pecs from a different angle than flat or decline bench, but still the ENTIRE muscle is firing when you do it.

It's a common mistake to think otherwise, so don't be discouraged or anything :) There are still many pro bodybuilders who think incline bench works their upper chest.

15 flat (traditional)- working your center chest

See above :)

15 with you legs raised- focusing more on your upper chest and shoulders

This doesn't work upper chest, but you're right that it does emphasize the shoulders (front delt) more than regular pushups. For even more front delt work, try handstand pushups (against a wall). That's a hardcore shoulder workout. Don't forget to work the middle and rear delts to keep everything in balance.

GreatWhiteNorth said:
for conditioning knuckles and on the back of the hands

My old Hapkido instructor used to have us do pushups on our wrists or on the back of our hands. I wouldn't recommend it. It doesn't really do much. If you're looking to strengthen your "wrists" do forearm exercises, after all they are the muscles responsible for wrist movement (with one exception, the bicep helps rotate the wrist and forearm).

Robin said:
Hey, Iron, have you had any luck with one armed pushups? I imagine those work the stabilizers (abs, back--I haven't memorized all the back muscles yet) more than regular pushups, taking away from working the pecs and delts. Curious.

One armed pushups are pretty cool, but I find they don't "feel" as solid as regular pushups. However, it's probably because I'm way more used to standard pushups (or two handed derivatives) and also because as you said, stabilizer muscles are brought more into play than with traditional pushups. Also greater stress is placed on the wrist.

There are two basic ways to do one armed pushups:

1: Arm under your chest, feet spread, this is the way most people do them. Other hand on your back.

2: Sideways. To imagine this, lay on your side and with your bottom hand push yourself up so that when you're in the top position, your chest is facing the wall and your shoulders are up and down (as opposed to left and right like in normal pushups). Don't go down all the way, because of the stress placed on the wrist. In fact, when you start you probably won't be able to go down very far at all. Don't let your midsection sag, either.

Btw, I forgot who made me think of this, but here is a bit more clarification:

"Normal" pushups work your muscles in a manner closer to decline bench press, not flat bench. Look at the angle of your shoulders while you're in the top position and this will be clear. However, because your body moves in an arc pushups will never go in a straight line like the bar during a bench press. But as stated above, the higher your feet are, the more stress is placed onto the front deltoid.

**** I write a lot.

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

"Don't you get cose to me with that knofe or I'll have to dofond mosolf!" - KC Elbows

[Repulsive Monkey]

I feel come from learning to relax properly not from bulk amassing in the bicep tricep area with such an exercise as the push-up. Push-ups are quite limiting and altogether the best exercise for faster punches in general.

[scotty1]

I think push ups are a really good exercise. It seems to me that they exercise most of the muscles you use punching, just like a bench press. Plus you can do them plyometrically.
But Iron, here is a serious question - some ab exercises seem to effect the upper or lower end of the stomach muscle. For example, crunches seem to work different parts of my abs than do hip flexes (which I only heard of the other day, and I have now built a hip flexor - two horizontal poles at about chest height, hang and bring your knees up to your chest. Hard, esp. with ankle weights.) So yeah, even if it is only one muscle, is it still possible to work one part of that muscle more with a particular exercise than with another? I am talking with specific refernce to your abs. Thanks

"Some people, irrespective of skill, are just wankers." -Satanachia

[Stacey]

GDA- Its makes them more firm. Keeps ya from sagging, especcially if you widen your arms and bring them up a little. The trick is the strengthen the upper part. Sorry I don't know the name. It works like a primitive "tuck". Its nice.

Carpe Diem.

http://www.freesmutserver.com/buh/jt24/tn_s05_jpg.jpg

[Robinf]

Gunned,

Sorry to take so long to post a reply.

Pushups really don't do anything for the breasts. They work the pectoral muscles (among other muscles). Working these muscles a lot, you can make your breasts kind of "disappear"--but that's if you're a bodybuilder (female). But, if you're not a bodybuilder, just into resistance/weight training then the breasts really aren't affected. Breasts contain fat--you can't strengthen or harden fat, you can only get rid of it.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[SwaiingDragon]

"a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing..."

is there any way of posting something on this forum without someone trying to contradict you?????

what i am/was trying to say is that variety is good- whether your punching, using spear or sword, or exercising- a variety of motions will help you develop...

[ElPietro]

Scotty you cannot train different regions of one muscle. As Iron said there are plenty of posts on this subject. I believe I posted a scientific explanation of why you cannot Isolate regions of any particular muscle, should be in here somewhere. It may seem as if you can but you aren't. Hip flexors are a different muscle than abs so yeah you can do exercises that work both but you cannot train upper or lower abs, just as you can't train upper/lower/inner/outer pecs.

Your muscles will grow into the shape that they are genetically determined to as you workout and there isn't anything short of surgery you can do about it.

This is the biggest myth in bodybuilding and it's amazing how many people who claim to be knowledgeable still maintain that this can be done. I guess this myth is just self-perpetuating.

Push-ups are "ok" for building a bit of mass but without added resistance they won't do much in the long run other than act as a form of cardio.

[Robinf]

However, isn't there is a benefit to changing the angle of typical exercises--besides refreshing the mind (it can get boring doing the same old stuff). Won't changing the angle of something help you create a new neuromuscular connection (I think that's what it's called), which is beneficial. You're stimulating the same muscles but in a different way so your body has to learn to adapt.

I hope Iron or ElPietro will expand on this or prove me wrong.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[scotty1]

OK, thanks.

"Some people, irrespective of skill, are just wankers." -Satanachia

[IronFist]

Swaiing Dragon, I wasn't trying to flame you, I was just correcting you straight up with no bullshÃ*t attached.

About working different regions of abs... yeah, there are more posts here, but here's the main idea: People who think they are working their lower abs are actually working their hip flexors, not the abs, that's why the burning is felt more intensely lower, and the "upper" abs (actually the whole abdominals muscle) burns a little less as it is the secondary muscle stressed in the exercise.

Make sense?

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

"Don't you get cose to me with that knofe or I'll have to dofond mosolf!" - KC Elbows

[IronFist]

However, isn't there is a benefit to changing the angle of typical exercises--besides refreshing the mind (it can get boring doing the same old stuff).

Don't change the angle, per se, if it involves messing with your joints. Only move your joints through their regular movement. In other words, do NOT do leg extensions with your feet turned in or out in an attempt to affect the quads differently, because it will destroy your knees. That being said, let's go to this:

Won't changing the angle of something help you create a new neuromuscular connection (I think that's what it's called), which is beneficial. You're stimulating the same muscles but in a different way so your body has to learn to adapt.

You can change the way a muscle is worked, yes. This is very good in most cases. For example, barbell curls work the bicep differently than dumbell curls, which are different than hammer curls or twisting dumbell curls. However, note that the elbow is kept in it's normal path or movement here.

When most people are talking abou angles, they're probably referring to the chest, which, thanks to the shoulder's ball and socket joint, can safely be worked at different angles. Incline press, Decline press, Dumbell flies, etc, all work the chest differently. However, they all work the entire chest, not the top, or the bottom or middle, but the whole chest. The only differences are:

the angle at which the body adapts to the load, (incline bench is more upward, decline is more downward, etc.)

the assistance of secondary muscles (depending on the angle. For example, incline bench heavily stresses the front delts, and moderately stresses the tris, while dumbell flies don't really do much for the triceps as they are kept in one place for the majority of the movement.)

Neuromuscular adaption (like you said): your body becomes used to what it has to do.

And other things I can't think of right now :)

I hope this answered your questions :)

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

"Don't you get cose to me with that knofe or I'll have to dofond mosolf!" - KC Elbows

[Mr. Nemo]

Ironfist, I'm really glad you're on this board. You save me a lot of typing, and I learn things from you too.

[Robinf]

Thanks, Iron. Just what I was looking for. I never understood the benefits of doing pushups in a handstand, though. Isn't it easier to lift a barbell, dumbells, etc. overhead and have the same effect?

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[Dragon Warrior]

If you are doing incline bench, it is obvious that you are putting stress on the entire chest muscle, but that does not mean that you are not stressing the upper chest more than the rest. The chest is one muscle, but it is also seperated by striations in the muscle.

A good example of this are shoulder excersises. If i want to work the front deltoids, i may do dumbel raises to the front. I am obvioulsy working my entire shoulder, but i am putting most of the stress on the front deltoids. if i want to put more stress on a different part of the deltoids than i will do an excersise that fits the area i want to concentrate on.

As far as abdominal muscles. Yes they can be considered one muscle group, but doing different excersises will put stress on different areas. The abs consist of upper and lower regions. You can also include serretus, obliques, and one other muscle i always forget the name of it. Doing different excersises will defintely help to put stress on certain parts over others. That doesnt mean the entire ab area will not be included, but im just saying the stress will be in some parts of the abs more than others, depending on the excersise.

Also, i have never read any anatomy book that claimed that you cannot put more stress on certain parts of the muscle than others. Since muscles are seperated by striations, i do not see why you cant do this. Any links that claim what you are saying is true?

For years, religion did nothing but divide. (killa priest)

Religion is like a prison for the seekers of wisdom. (killa priest)

[This message was edited by Dragon Warrior on 12-03-01 at 01:10 PM.]

[This message was edited by Dragon Warrior on 12-03-01 at 01:18 PM.]

[ElPietro]

Robin yes you are correct about switching things up. But most people switch exercises too often. I posted a very detailed thread outlining this concept with an example which if you can read through it answer your question on how the nervous system works with respect to weight lifting.

Here's the link: http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=126197291&f=196199028&m=4441904803&r=9751925113#9751925113

Scotty and Dragon I was looking for a thread I posted a while back but couldn't find it so I'll try to explain things here with respect to training different regions of a single muscle.

Allow me to drop some science on you. Muscles are made up of muscle fibres. Muscle fibres can do one of two things...contract or relax (i'm sure there's a better word). Let's use chest as our example as this seems to be your focus. Strictly speaking yes you can work part of your muscle and not all of your muscle but not in any practical terms. When you lift a weight your body basically uses the amount of muscle fibres required to lift that weight. So as you add weight the body recruits more and more of your muscle fibres until 100% of your muscle fibres are recruited. You would have to lift very lightly for you to only use part of your muscle, and once those fibres were fatigued others would take over. If you are lifting for hypertrophy the weight you are using is more than sufficient to recruit 100% of your muscle fibres, which will become damaged and begin recovering over the next few days.

Your muscles as they recover basically grow bigger...you have a predetermined number of fibres and some are fast twitch, others are slow twitch. You cannot increase the amount of muscle fibres or cells but can increase their size, and whether or not they are fast or slow twitch.

For an explanation on fast and slow twitch muscles, I believe I wrote an exhastive post on the matter here: http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=126197291&f=196199028&m=5281921732&r=5261910342#5261910342

Training from different angles is fine and you may feel it stressed differently which could be because the angle you are sitting at with weight added causes your body to shift muscles into a shape. Your muscle shape is genetically determined so you could do decline bench press your whole life and the upper region of your chest could grow just because it's programmed to do so. It's all one muscle and it acts as one muscle. Some people will have biceps with a nice tight ball in the middle...others will have larger biceps that are more flat. You can't do jack about it other than drop bodyfat and make the muscle appear more defined...the shape is the shape and that's it.

Read the explanations I posted if you haven't in the past and you should have a better understanding. There are many myths in bodybuilding, some that have been around before it even became a sport so it's going to take a while before everyone sees the light.

Please post any other questions you have. If you've read all this then you've already shown your dedication and patience. ;)

[IronFist]

ElPietro, you just saved me some typing. Thanks, man :)

Mr Nemo: Glad you find what I say useful.

Robin said: Thanks, Iron. Just what I was looking for. I never understood the benefits of doing pushups in a handstand, though. Isn't it easier to lift a barbell, dumbells, etc. overhead and have the same effect?

A handstand pushup is roughly equivalent to an overhead barbell press with freeweights. This exercise is also sometimes called a "military press." Basically, in the handstand position (against a wall is much easier, btw :) ) or with the barbell overhead the far majority of stress is placed on the front deltoids. It's like a seriously inclined bench press... inclined to the point where it's vertical, haha. Wait, that wasn't funny. Anyway, it's an excellent anterior deltoid developer, if that's what you're looking for. But for most people, doing their bodyweight is extremely difficult, especially when starting, so a barbell can be used with sub-body weights.

One disadvantage of wall handstand pushups is that you can only go down far enough until your head hits the floor. This can be overcome by using chairs and such, but strictly speaking will not work the delts through their fullest range of motion. This can be overcome by using a barbell (so you can bring it down all the way), or doing handstand pushups on a chair, although the chair thing ads to the danger.

Did that clarify things?

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

"Don't you get cose to me with that knofe or I'll have to dofond mosolf!" - KC Elbows

[rubthebuddha]

you mean the rectus abdominus, that big thing so many people think is six or eight muscles but is actually just one chunka muscle with tendonal goodies running across it?

me? i got a six pack, but i have the pretzels to go with it.

-rtb

[IronFist]

Yo DragonWarrior :)

You can also include serretus, obliques, and one other muscle i always forget the name of it. Doing different excersises will defintely help to put stress on certain parts over others. That doesnt mean the entire ab area will not be included, but im just saying the stress will be in some parts of the abs more than others, depending on the excersise.

I know you know that the serrats or obliques or whatever are different from the abs, so obviously you can work one without the other. That's like saying biceps curls work biceps and triceps. However, it is impossible to work the upper half or the lower half of the abs.

Please see my challenge about flexing just part of a muscle :)

It's impossible to increase stress on just part of a muscle; it's impossible to work a certain area of a muscle.

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

"Don't you get cose to me with that knofe or I'll have to dofond mosolf!" - KC Elbows

[Akuma]

great thread folks--These kung-fu forums are the best, I've learnt soo much!!