Gung fu world

[mantis7]

Hi All I thought I would stir up the pot today…


I was having a discussion with a few friends about the state of the gung fu world of today. As the old generation grows older and dies out it seems through miscommunication and misinterpation that the gung fu world is not what it should be. There are only a handful of schools out there that still sticks to fighting as the theory and concepts in a given system dictates. I have noticed most of the schools of today teach the forms and when it comes to there combat they fall into the KICKBOXING dilemma. Even though the kicks and punches and throws are simple base techniques in the system but that is far as they go. Is it possible for someone to spar another person using the concept of the system with gloves on. I believe it is but it seems that it is not being tried. This can be seen in the all gung fu tournaments with the continuous sparring matches. Are these fighters skilled? I say yes but are they using their gung fu I say only to a small level. The state of shan shou is a great one full contact fighting but it is still kick boxing fought on a platform with throws. You see boxing skills and wrestling throws or shuai jiao throws and kicks. Even though this is a good way to test your skill you are not demonstrating your gung fu skills. I am not putting down these great men who have the heart to step on the platform but I would love to see these men actually use their styles in the ring.

With the advent of NHB not one gung fu stylist has come forward and used there given style. They use their kickboxing skills and throws as well as grappling. There is nothing wrong with this at all even if they are successful but this makes gung fu look like it is in a sorry state. People who had interest in studying looks and say or wonder if they are better off studying MMA because you can not tell the Difference between the two. Which is not a good thing.

I know with this statement everyone is going to say well I use my tech in the traditional sense. Even I had to reevaluate my training. To compensate for a grappler I had to train my grip to adapt my tech for attempt to take my legs. I had to modify my sprawling tech while applying my traditional tech and theory. I would love to see a NHB gung fu match on the lei tai stage with no glove as it is now legal in most states and I would love to compete in one.

The state of the shan shou is good but it can better. We have thai boxers, wrestlers, people with lil or no gung fu skills with a good amount of kickboxing and grappling skills dominating the circuit. I digress on that topic as these men on the lei tai stage are all warriors but I do not aspire to be there level but go beyond it.

I would love to see the wing chun stylist go at it with a choy la fut stylist slug it out with chain punches and long arm tech. I would love to see a mantis stylist go against the iron bridge of a hung gar stylist but what can you do.

The only thing I can say to you all is evaluate the way you do fight is it just using bits and pieces of your system to add to your kickboxing or are you using your whole system in the way it was created to be used. If you practice bong sau or a diu sau ****** use it or don’t bother training it. If you practice training chin na apply it and see if it works. Shuai jiao has the meanest throws I have ever seen. They are touted as being the best around. SO throw the person and if done right they shouldn’t get up afterwards.

I know you are all going to ask do I compete in shan shou or NHB. I never had the chance to enter a tournament but I do train for the event (full contact with gear) I also like to test my skill with no gear. I test my skills and I don’t mind getting my A$$ kicked to see if it works. I rather bleed and receive bruises in a friendly match then get killed trying to defend myself on the street. I am not immune to the kickboxing construct and I do mantis. I thought everything I was doing was gung fu but I found out it wasn’t. I meet someone who showed me hand speed that can’t be followed and other things that opened my eyes in just a few movements. I now am striving to study GUNG FU and use it the way it was intended to be used. I just hope I am not the only one who thinks like this.


Vince Night

“Never talk because with one word you can lose your life”

[northern_fist]

Well it is nice too see that you appreciate the art in kung fu . But one thing you missed in your post is why we study kung fu. Everyone usually says it is to stay fit ( take arobics if this is the case ) . It is to fight.

And in todays fighting circuit and in clubs well it looks like western boxing and kickboxing. I feel the main reason is because it works.

Ask bouncers , cops , fighters or find out for yourself what really works.

I do alot of sparring , it looks like traditional kickboxing and I train with fighters bouncers and with other martial artist. but when it comes down to it. You want to get the guy on the ground and you standing up able to get away


Dennis

[scotty1]

I appreciate the art side of Kung Fu, and I think it is something that needs to be preserved. However, I think the reason a lot of people revert to kickboxing style fighting is because its more comfortable, unless you are completly sure of your style.

"Some people, irrespective of skill, are just wankers." -Satanachia

[ElPietro]

Just one question that I think should be considered...how do we know how kungfu was really utilized in the past. Sure there is an elaborate system of techniques...but in the past it was a way of life and practiced everyday fulltime. I'm sure that if people today did that then there would be more use of more than just the basic movements. Perhaps back in the distant past the skill was used similarly as it is today...we don't really know...we just have our impressions which have been somewhat manufactured by all the movies we've seen on TV.

In the past martial arts were a tool used in the military as guns hadn't been invented and it was mainly bladed and blunt weapons in conjunction with your art form, whereas today it is more of a sport or hobby.

I just think that we don't truly know accurately how these traditional CMAs were truly used in the past...

[mantis7]

Hey El

Not to be a wise ass but if the style is any indication on how it was used i supect there was very little kickboxing. And yes they used a lot of bladed weapons and blunt weapon. Now look at the chinese weapon forms if broken down you can pluck traning methods out jus like the Phillipino escrima weapon training and be able tomake you weapon training very reaistic. As far as the empty hand goes you can do the same. but you do have one good oint they wre able to train all day for combat. I repeat they trained all day for combat to defend themselves and to over through the goverment or what have you....

but i guess everyone sees it diffrent than me I don see CMA as a sport like it seems a majority of people do and in reality i rather hav CMA die than watered down to dancing forms and kick boxing...

[shaolinboxer]

Kung Fu is evolving to meet the needs of citizens of modern society.

It helps us develop ourselves so that we can be stronger in our everyday lives.

Of course, there are many fighting applications of the various techniques, but if you see a shift in the overall foucs of the arts away from fighting technique you should not be suprised. Many of these changes have been handed to us quite deliberately from the great masters of the past.

After all, the goal of kung fu is not to become an invincible fighter, but to craft you mind, body, and spirit.

[mantis7]

True CMA is used to make us more vital to make us stronger but like I tell everyone if that is just your goal then Y study a art of combat you can get thesae results by going to the gym and train.

lyle says
Of course, there are many fighting applications of the various techniques, but if you see a shift in the overall foucs of the arts away from fighting technique you should not be suprised

Well if I do see this then I will be surprised for the simple reason these arts ( systems of combat) was created to fight to defend to accomplish a set goal. No what is CMA with out fighting. Juast a dance ??? I hope it doesnt get to this level. lyle you should be surprised if any system no matter how old was going towards the way of look at me i am doing a form and thats it. That will bea sad day in deed. If it gets to tht they y bother training . If yo say the moral implications or the enlighten way that is based on the WUDE martial moral and that comes from a individual point not a martial point.

lyle says
After all, the goal of kung fu is not to become an invincible fighter, but to craft you mind, body, and spirit.

i is true you dont study to become a invincible fighter but you do study to become on plain and simple if not there is no reason to study in the first place. you do trainte mind body and spirit in a wariors fashion not in any other fashion


lyle says
Kung Fu is evolving to meet the needs of citizens of modern society
what ae these needs that can ot be met by physical training besides the CMA. or a holitic need by studying religious txt or philosphical text or what have....

most people do train in the martial arts to gain some basic knowledge on ho to fight( defend oneself) no mater how small.. they may find other paths along in the martial arts along the way but that is just a bonus plain and simple the arts were created to fight plain and simple// religious, philosphical and other thought methods were added on by the idividual or culture at that time plain and simple. every system follows a set theory or concepts but the philisphical and religious though varies fromschool to school and teacher to teacher