How do you mix stance training and weight training for legs?

[IronFist]

How do you set up your schedule so you can effectively train stances but still do squats or deadlifts or whatever without one exercise making you too weak for the other one?

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

"Don't you get cose to me with that knofe or I'll have to dofond mosolf!" - KC Elbows

I will usually do my leg lifting on Thursday leaving only one training session left for the week(besides home training). When I take the class I make it a point to through our stances because they aree the foundation to all techniques(obviously) I also find that when I am sore it is easier to sit in horse stance for longer periods. So basically to answer your question I train legs heavily at the end of the week. As far as getting sore from stance work, It doesnt happen for me anymore now that I work my legs with heavy weights.

Shaolin36

[IronFist]

Whoops well I lift legs 5 days a week, Pavel style. No lectures on overtraining, anyone, I know what I'm doing.

Thanks for the suggestion, though, Shaolin36, I just forgot to mention the every day thing in my first post ;)

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

"Don't you get cose to me with that knofe or I'll have to dofond mosolf!" - KC Elbows

[Apprentice]

wanna throw me a link on how to train legs 5 days a week without overtraining? or an explination will probably be just as good

"True victory is giving all of yourself without regret"-Ryu

"Your best move is the move you regret not doing"-Fei Long

"Are you prepared to fight today? Someone else is as we speak"-Apprentice

[IronFist]

Leg training 5 days a week. 2 week cycles. Squat or Deadlift, pick one and stick with it for the entire cycle. Find a weight that you can do 10 reps with. Start with that weight.

Day 1: 10 rep weight for 5 reps, rest for 5 minutes, then 90% of that weight for 5 reps. Done.

Each day, add 5 pounds to the prevoius day's starting weight, and the second set is 90% of the first set. Never do more than 2 sets per day. In other words, you only do two sets of squats per day, but then you can do any other exercises you want that are NOT for legs. Make sense? This program will give you strength, not size.

Here it is in detail:

http://www.dragondoor.com/pavel_routines.html

Good luck,

Iron

----------------
"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

IronFist PostLog:
1100 - 11/20/01
1200 - 12/01/01

"Don't you get cose to me with that knofe or I'll have to dofond mosolf!" - KC Elbows

"Pysäyttäkää auto, minä oksennan!"

[Robinf]

That's an interesting workout, Iron.

I was wondering myself how to mix in stance training with weight training. I do my legs, right now, on Mon and Thurs. I do kung fu, in which we work stances for the first part of class, on Tues and Thurs. Tues, I'm ok, but Thursday is pretty tough. Also, when we spar on Mon in TKD, it's pretty tough--hard to kick fast when your legs konk out.

Robin

[nospam]

I would advise to not train (weight lifting) legs on days you know you will be doing excessive stance work in class. If you must, then lighten the load and go for higher reps in the gym; this should leave enough reserve for almost normal output later in class.

Remember that you are effectively cross-training to an extent. The majority of peopl eout in the real world (shudder), over train! Train hard, but smart. In the end, your body will let you know.

I do not train legs on the same day. Truth be told, I modify my workouts on the days I train gung fu. It was the same when I started jogging. I would jog several days prior to my 'leg days' in the gym.

In the beginning I did daily full-body workouts in teh gym, then after a period of time, I segmented the body and now only hit the gym 3x's/week for no longer than 1hr- leg days will see me there longer than 1hr, as I can push more weight, I do more descending sets.

nospam.
:cool:

[Robinf]

nospam,

long freakin' time no hear. Nice suggestion, thanks. I'll give that shot. Actually, me legs are getting used to the double load, but that might be because I went easier in kung fu. Mistake. I should go easier on the weights. Ack.

Robin

[IronFist]

Actually, nospam, I think most people tend to get more sore from lighter weights and more reps. Very heavy weights and few reps don't leave you sore (generally speaking).

Thanks for the advice, tho.

Iron

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by IronFist
Actually, nospam, I think most people tend to get more sore from lighter weights and more reps. Very heavy weights and few reps don't leave you sore (generally speaking).

Thanks for the advice, tho.

Iron

I will have to disagree with this point. Higher reps may leave you in a more tired state, but sore the next day is from going heavier in my experience and others I have viewed. The heavier people go the more they may cheat or recruit stabilizing muscles all over your body...hence some people get pains in muscles they didn't know they had. ;)

Oh Iron can you post the reasoning behind your leg workouts? I'm just curious...it's end of day here and the link you posted just basically showed what the workout was from what I could see. I will ponder this workout as it obviously won't promote much hypertrophy but I'm not sure how it' promotes strength either. Generally strength comes from low reps of high % of max rep. Perhaps the strength gains from this program are more of a long term result or maybe you are focusing more on motor skill adaptation than an increase in actual muscle strength. I haven't read much of pavel's stuff but I'm interested in hearing what you've got to say on it. Interesting routine...

[IronFist]

It actually promotes rather rapid strength gains, although you are right about the lack of hypertorphy.

Basically you do the program until you cannot complete the first set of 5. You never go to failure. So for example, to make things easy, let's start with 100lbs. Say you can squat 100lbs for 10 reps. Your first workout would be

100 x 5, 5 min rest, 90 x 5

day 2: 105 x 5, 95 x 5

day 3: 110 x 5, 100 x 5

day 4: 115 x 5, 105 x 5

day 5: 120 x 5, 110 x 5

day 6: 125 x 5, 115 x 5

day 7: 130 x 5, 115 x 5 (note that the second set does not necessarily increase by 5lbs each workout, but instead is 90% of the first weight, rounded to the nearest 5lbs increment.

and so on, until say one day you were trying for this workout:

150 x 5, 135 x 5

But you only got 150 x 3 on your first set. You would then do 135 x 5 on your second set, but since you did not get 5 reps on the first set, this cycle would be over. Take a few days off, and then begin again a little higher than before:

105 x 5, 95 x 5

and so on.

This program is excellent for strength gains, but hypertrophy is minimal (unless you're a total beginner).

It is more designed to increase the amount of tension generated by the muscles, as opposed to the size of the muscles. Hypertrophy does not result because the muscles are not being used until most of the fibers are worn out (as with bodybuilding training), instead, the load is increased.

If this method is used to reach failure, even though that is not advised, the failure is not due to intense "burning" as it is in a bodybuilding workout (like, "do this set to failure"), but instead the muscles just run out of energy. There is no lactic acid buildup.

I still disagree with you that heavy weights cause soreness. When I used to bodybuild, I would get MUCH more sore in the days following a workout because I used less weight and more reps (reps in the 8-10 range, i never got into the 12+ stuff cuz i didn't like it). When on the above mentioned program, I never, ever got sore. Ever. Even on days when I maxed out and set new personal records, I felt like I could take on the world when I left the gym. When I was BB'ing, I would limp to my car after an intense workout of squats bodybuilding style.

But, use whatever works for you :)

Good luck,

Iron

[nospam]

Indeed, Robin...long time :rolleyes:

Going easier on the weights would be my thought as well. Judge what is more important, then act accordingly, but never throw experience to the wind, for then more is potentially lost than can ever be gained...know what eye mean?

nospam.
:cool:

[Robinf]

nospam,

I know what you mean. I'm going to try something a little different, actually. I'll do a bit of trial and error over the next few weeks and see what works best for me.

for the rest,
Ack! What? Someone listening to and weighing advice and then using that advice to listen to her own body? How can this be?! :eek:

I'm scheduled to take my first personal training seminar in just 6 weeks. I'm very excited! But, it starts at 7am. That's not so exciting.

Robin

[shaolin_knight]

there's a little more to Pavel's method than set/rep/rest scheme. he also advocates high tension techniques like maximizing intra-abdominal pressure and using the law of irradiation to your advantage. and using compound lifts (two of them is enough). my workouts only take about half an hour a day. I do deadlift, side press, and barbell curl sometimes. his ab training methods are also in my daily program. good stuff. buy his freaking book, Power to the People, and try it. it works. anyone who has done it correctly will tell you so.

[IronFist]

shaolin knight is right. I was just giving a brief outline of the cycling used, not everything he says.

By the way, I second Shaolin Knight's advice to go buy the book.

Iron

[feluk]

How do you mix set up your schedule
so you can effectively,train stances but still do squats or deadlifts,or whatever
without one exercise making you too weak for the other one.

Iron Fist,what you may want to do is to do your squat routine,one day and if you feel strong.
Do your stance training.

Other than that take a break after you do you squat routine.
Then do your stance training.
You can continue this regimine the next day.
Or do the same regimin but with different leg weight training exercise routines.
Plus your stance training,for 3 times a week.
And for the 2 days you're not doing your weight training exercises for the legs,you can do your stance training.
Get the book on weight training for the martial arts or on the martial arts.
There's a picture of a man putting a barbell on his back and doing squats.

Take Care,
:)

[Urbanfist14]

Was wondering if anyone knows where to buy cheaper kettlebells than those offered through Dragondoor.com. Just finished PT's Russian Kettlebell Challange book and am using dumbells for the exercises. Any leads would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and Happy Training.