PDA

View Full Version : Bagua exercises



northstar
11-28-2001, 11:37 AM
To all the bagua practitioners on this board: which exercices apart from walking the circle holding palm positions do you do? How do they complement your circle walking?

Eight_Triagram_Boxer
11-28-2001, 07:19 PM
Well, a common supplimentary exercise is the "tea cup serving" exercise. You can see an example of one method by going to www.hsing-i.com (http://www.hsing-i.com). There is a short clip there. Also, I like to practice the single palm in a sationary position. I'm sure there are many more that other people can tell you about. I'm still a beginner.

~ETB

blacktaoist
11-28-2001, 07:48 PM
I train every other day with a 50 pound weighted vest that have Iron bars in the vest. The vest have help me establish a powerful root and good balance when ever I practice my Bagua forms.

Training with the vest have develop my power and speed in my Baguazhang hand and foot techniques. Most Baguazhang people that I met don't have any power or root. This is because all they practice is form to establish they so-Called internal power. What they need to do is open up they eyes to the real world of Martial arts.

All styles of Martial arts have auxiliary training techniques used to enhance skills. But I find alot of so called Internal" boxers don't have any skills at all, But alot of external Martial artist that I met have power, root, and skills, even karate fighters that I know was more poweful then a lot of my Baguazhang Martial art brothers that I have met.

Baguazhang Have many auxiliary training techniques That the Bagua practitioner can learn and practice and enhance they shills. But few follow the true way to skill. Many practice the Bagua mouth Method (I-Ching Theory)All you have to do is read a I-ching book, and people call you a Baguazhang Master. LOL

All theory and no real Hardcore practice. This is way other Martial artist LOL at Baguazhang and internal martial art people, because only a few can use they martial art.

Other auxiliary techniques I practice to enhance skills for fighting, after all thats what baguazhang is all about,a Fighting Method.
Staff pulling, candle extinguinguish exercise, iron palm training, Tree training for impact conditioning,running half mile to five miles,Bagua tea cup drills, bag work, two man impact training to the body and legs, speed bag training, good for conditioning your eyes and hands only. These are just a few things I practice to help enhance my skill in baguazhang. peace

Waidan
11-28-2001, 09:10 PM
Good topic :)

My teacher and I do a lot of 2-man contact drills . Typically we'll take a (very short) section of a form, apply it in one context or another, and drill it repeatedly to better develop power and connection.

Also, I like to test my alignment by applying force to a static object (ie wall) while sinking into a posture. Really dig in and push...see where you feel the stress. If your shoulder (for example) is burning, something's amiss.

Bag-work and standing posture changes are also beneficial, IMO.

wisdom mind
11-28-2001, 09:38 PM
LOL Black thats highlarious, well written post!

see you soon.... PEEP this Bizness!!!

i utilized soft skills on tuesday night
to defend myself against 15 attackers in a bar
in alphabet city. this one guy wanted to roll up on my lady, so he got his hoe-boys (not homeboys) to jump me while he talked to Little Tiger.

they surrounded me from behind and tried to snuff me in the back. i repelled one fool's strike by absorbing the blow with my back...good thing i have been doing my tree impact training and palm changes WORD!

i dispersed that crowd then went to deal with the punk on my lady

i broke this fools bridge then mantis arm locked him soft style...he was 5 feet away from Little Tiger before he realized i was holding him and was pulling him close... i absorbed his chi and controlled his reality....then i had a secret to tell his arse.

Then, while smiling ear to ear and wispering ever so softly to the dude, I calmly informed him that he needed to leave my lady alone... he was very open to my suggestion and agreed wholeheartedly that he should move on, thanking me in fact for pointing out to him that he was an idiot.

LOL!

its all good in the hood.

walkin and piercing and burning the wikked

yiwizupakdizzydao

beaudacious
11-28-2001, 10:19 PM
take any palm changing method and drill it stationary 100 times each side. In sets of 10 and 20. practice ko bu and bai bu on a small tight circle and open the bai bu as much as your body will let you, without hurting yourself. practice it slowly and try and coordinate the breathe a bit

blacktaoist
11-28-2001, 11:24 PM
Whats up Centerline Vortex, I hope you and your woman are fine, You was all ways out the hook in my book. LOL. I hope you enjoy the Yin style workshop. I'm going to do other one this january /19/2002 at the same place for three hours. This one is coming to be more hardcore freefighting, using cao style Baguazhang techniques freestyle. The next workshop should be fun. See you soon.

Peace. Practice and live long.

Water Dragon
11-28-2001, 11:34 PM
TBT, come play on my Qi thread on the main board. I think you'll enjoy it. Oh yeah, tell Bobby Digital I said 'sup. LOL

wisdom mind
11-28-2001, 11:49 PM
I just felt it appropriate to give an update on the forum that Cao/Yin style bagua training really works in real life application.

I stayed very calm and relaxed the entire time

bouncers took the mob out after i dispersed them

and to those wondering, I picked up the techniques used that night from learning from the blacktaoist. this is not a false attempt at promotion, just props and respect where they are due.

big up your self and burn the batti mon

wisdom mind
11-29-2001, 12:43 AM
I do the first gua while walking the circle and
also do the stationary changes mentioned above.

Mentally I focus on destroying an opponent while remaining in the no mind state.

I also focus on balance and single weighted stances during the change. Sinking root while raising onto one leg helps stabilize the balancing leg.

I need to get a weight vest fo sho.

Ill try the footwork exercise out.

blacktaoist
11-29-2001, 01:11 AM
Water dragon I take a look, You always do have good threads. But you guys know I like the Fighting Threads more.

Centerline vortex, Thanks but no thanks. You don't have to give me any props, I'm nobody". Like I told you before, you was already a good fighter. Your own hard practice with the right mindset is what help you in this real life . It had nothing to do with me. LOL.

Peace. Practice and live long.

count
11-30-2001, 04:33 PM
Hope all is well with you and your training. There is so much training you can do that will compliment your circle walking and give you superior fighting abilities in bagua. Steps are the most important thing that separate bagua from other styles. We talk about steps amd footwork the way blacktaoist talks about bridging as critical skills in fighting. Some of the exercises and training methods we have are linear, angular and circular. We drill all the steps in a straight line. Forward and backward and with a partner. Ankle weights are a good supplement although I'm told the weight that goes on the bottom of your soles are much better. Circle walking with a partner is key. Forward and especially backward with short and long changes. This will help develop sensitivity and timing as well as finding openings in your gates and your opponents.

Also, more than just circle walking, we train square and triangle walking. Tighter angles will increase the flexibility of the kua and spine.

Excellent post blacktaoist. I wish you would elaborate a bit more on some of these training methods. What kind of bag training are you talking about? In our school we sometimes use a kicking bag for training. However, we use it quite differently than you might imagine. Typical of bagua, the method is changed from what you would expect. An opponent holds the bag but rather than you just hitting the bag they try to hit you with it. Using the bag like a shield which you must break down or get around. It's harder than it sounds but if you can get past the shield, when your opponent in a fight only has hands for shield, it's almost too easy to break through their gates. We also use a heavy bag, but it's more for developing sensitivity and internal power than building strength and hard hitting.

I'd also be interested in what you are talking about when you mention staff pulling? In our long pole and spear training we have some pulling and twisting exercises while some one holds the other end of the pole for some resistance. Good stuff! BTW, if anyone is interested in learning spear/long pole the way Li Shu Wen (Magic Spear Li) taught, we are adding it in our school on Sunday's starting in January. I guarantee this training will fix problems and add power to whatever training you are doing now. No prior experience is necessary either. I warn you though, be prepared to be sore, especially when it comes to free sparring. This training is hardcore and very difficult. But the power and coordination it brings to your body and hands is tremendous. You can find out more details at our website, Chi Kung International. (http://chikungintl.com/) Check the calendar page..

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)


http://kabooom.com/af.gif

KC Elbows
11-30-2001, 08:29 PM
Not to be off-topic, but what do you use to make a weight vest? Did you order it, or make it yourself?

blacktaoist
12-01-2001, 12:22 AM
Count whats up, hope you are practicing and doing fine.
Bag training Answer. There are many ways I train striking a bag. I also use a Kicking bag, but unlike the why you guys train to hit the bag, I train to utilize K'ou Pu and Pai Pu, as three or four of my classmates come attacking, I will try to lock they legs and strike the kicking bag at the sametime. This way your opponent can't get away because his leg is lock, so he have to take the full impact of your palm strike. Good thing he is holding a Kicking bag.

Staff Pulling Answer. This is a very simple exercise that I had to learn frist before my Yin Style teacher with teach me the frist Gua of Cao Style BaGua. The way I learn it is, each person should grasp hold with the tips of the fingers (not the whole hand thats to easy)and begin pulling the staff toward themselves as they walk the circle. If you, or your partner do a change, you must not let the staff hit the ground. This action develops the skill to grab , seize and pull in a fight.

Answer to Question about Weighted vest: My sifu gave me it. But I just buy a powersuit endorsed by Tim Grover. I feel its butter then the vest my sifu give me. The power suiit work my body hard when I practice my BaGuaZhang forms. You can go to www.eastbay.com (http://www.eastbay.com) if you want to order one.

Peace. Practice and live long.

blacktaoist
12-01-2001, 02:14 AM
www.eastbay.com (http://www.eastbay.com)
America online keyword: eastbay

count
12-01-2001, 03:04 AM
For filling in those details. That's exactly the kind of bag training I was talking about. Stepping and locking, turning etc. Sometimes we play for points ONLY for hitting in the back :D I gotta try with four attackers some time ;)

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)


http://kabooom.com/af.gif

fiercest tiger
01-20-2002, 08:08 PM
you fought 14 guys in a bar and walked away without a scratch?

**** man, you can teach me..aight?:D

maoshan
01-20-2002, 09:06 PM
I practice a few variations of serving tea cups. I also tie two 25 pound sand bags to my legs as I go through our linear form.
I also practice some Chan Si Chin type exercises while walking the circle. One thing I discovered, to gain more speed and strenth
Do the 8 mother palms ( correctly ) in the lower basin, 8 revolusions on each side. I call this the 64. My students hate it.
I also use Iron rings to stretch my tendons. The shaolin rings for those that know. Mine are of the old kind, each one is 5 pounds as aposed to the commercial ones that top off at 2 1/2.

But as my classmate said, there are alot of auxillary exercises in Ba-Gua for ex:
Holding each of the mother palms in a static posture correctly will make very strong.
The key here is, RIGHT METHOD and PROPER AMOUNT OF TIME.

Brings to mind what I used to say at the end of each my post.

Practice doesn't make perfect.
Perfect practice makes perfect.


Peace

Maoshan

count
01-20-2002, 09:13 PM
Nice to see you online. Your post brings up an interesting question. Do you consider lower basin postures require a lower level or a higher level of skill? Not a trick question. Just a discussion I had with sifu this weekend and it made me curious.

maoshan
01-20-2002, 09:23 PM
Peace Count,

How are you?

anyway, I consider it a higher level.
In some schools the lower basin is taught first and in truth back in 1995 i tried to teach it, but they coudn't handle it. so now I work them from the middle to the lower. I also found that the lower they got the stronger they got. But that also depends on the student and what style they want to learn and what they can do. Not too many have stayed with the lower basin like myself.
I feel it's the method to master truly, the 72 kicks.

Maoshan

count
01-20-2002, 09:31 PM
Interestingly, I find it more difficult to maintain the complete link and connect from head to toe in higher basin. But it's true that most can't hang for a long time in lower. But than, bagua is not for you if you are meak in the heart and weak in the legs.:D

maoshan
01-20-2002, 09:44 PM
Personaly I feel that Unless You've deveoped a highly refinded
(for lack of a better saying) Chi Body, Nobody should be doing the high basin.
I've been doing Ba-Gua for over 20yrs now and I still don't think i'm ready. I'm going to go for it at 45-50 then maybe by that time
my power will be refinded enough. On a basic level, one of the things i found hardest was keeping the alignments in the high basin. I think you have to have reached the AN JING level before you can do it properly. The only people i've seen able to do it with speed and balance have been the older practitioners 70 and better. Not to say that it can't be reached before that age but that has to do with the recipe of the training curriculum under a high master.


Maoshan

count
01-20-2002, 09:59 PM
SHlT, I'll be 45 next year and I figure another 10 years at least. But that's exactly what I meant. Some day we have to compare those chan su jin exercises on the circle. Gotta go, training comes up early in the morning for me.:cool: