TBT'S poll

[Guandi]

there is a poll on the black taoists site about whoe is a good baguazhang fighter.

---
Brothers of Wudang Internal Marital Arts Poll
What World-Renowed Bagua Zhang teacher do you think is in real combat condition and can win in a K-1 Grand Prix Tournament, King of the Cage, Pride FC, Gladiator Challenge, Muay Thai, or any real Full-Contact Tournament with few rules.
votes ratio
1.) Joseph Crandall 0 0%
2.) Park-Bok Nam 7 35%
3.) Frank Allen 0 0%
4.) Jerry Alan Johnson 0 0%
5.) Mike Patterson 1 5%
6.) B.K. Frantzis 1 5%
7.) John Painter 0 0%
8.) Tim Cartmell 2 10%
9.) Luo De Xiu 8 40%
10.) Jason Tsou 1 5%
---

[beaudacious]

DUMB QUESTION

[blacktaoist]

Guania If people see my poll so what. Thats why Its up there. So i can see what people think about other BaGuaZhang Teachers. Who is a fan , and who is not. But I can see you are a longtime fan of mys.
Anyway my vote go to Luo De Xiu and Jason Tsou. I have Two Videos of Luo Xiu and I have to say Luo Xiu is no joke. From what I saw on his Baguazhang video, I go tell he is a real fighter. And his Bagua fighting techniques are powerful and can be utilize by anyone. I should know because I beat a few people down using them. LOL

Jason Tsou gets my vote because I use to read about him in articles when I was about 15 years old. Back then he was the only person to my knowledge to write about BaguaZhang. Even today if you go to his web-site, any real fighter can see from the pictrues of him on his web site, that the man is condition, Also there is a little movie of him doing a few moves from his BaGua form, from the little I saw he look powerful.

So there you have it, my two votes. Some day I hope to met Luo De Xiu and Jason Tsou and learn some good from them. Intill then Guanidi,

Practice and live long.

[Guandi]

>Guania If people see my poll so what.
>Thats why Its up there.

and that's why I posted it here, so that it can be noticed. Maybe it's getting a bigger audience now. No bad intend.

Guandi

[count]

Thought you guys were going to make it out here where it's sunny and nice. Just hint of winter in the air and it makes for excellent training in the mornings. I shall have to go vote for my teacher in your poll. I see a few who couldn't hold up with him keeping even in the voting. ;) You guys are always welcome and Jason even offered some special stuff to Maoshan. Jason will be holding the next intensive on Baji in February but there is plenty of bagua on the weekends.

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)


http://kabooom.com/af.gif
_ˇ

[count]

I couldn't find the poll. What page is it on?x

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)


http://kabooom.com/af.gif
_ˇ

[blacktaoist]

Yo Count, I didn't forget I'm a man of my word. But right now I'm so busy teaching and working I just don't have the time. But I do plan to come down there and visit your teacher sometime in 2002. Also with all this going down in New York with the planes falling and all, right now is not a good time. As for the vote you can find it on my intro page. I can't believe that some of Them teachers got high votes, you know what I mean. But thats life. LoL
Peace Live long and Practice.

[razakdigital]

Hello,

I have not visited KFO in weeks. So yesterday and today is my first time posting in a long timelong time. I wanted to state that the poll is a poll for internal artist that are just curious about certain questions and issues in the arts. Now if "beaudacious" meant that our question is a dumb question that I think it is a matter of opinion. (Again assuming he is talking about the question on our poll) This forum used to do similiar polls like this all the time a year or two ago. I don't think it is a dumb question because everyone thinks about the same type of question but will not say it a loud.

Guandi

You say that did put the question out there to give us a bigger audience. Now you full well we been back and forth with you on various controvesal topics over the time we've been on this board. So I'm just a little suspect on your intention. But, I will never know for sure but let me say thanks if you intentions were true. Let me also conclude that if we wanted a bigger audience we could have inform everyone on KFO ourselves to get a bigger fans to the poll. We did not. So that shows our interest in letting everyone know. If someone comes to I our site and see what we do that's cool. If not thats cool too...
Finally,

The votes are the poll are very suspect because a lot for votes for Sifu Park Nam, Painter etc... and other people with over 30% votes were made from same person(s). Basically the poll was tainted. Out of all the votes we set our website this one is too close to the Florida selection....opps I meant election... (Let me say that the two names mention is not done for any type of attack at all. I have the records of how the votes are cast and it shows that there is someone who are a fans of these individuals are sitting at there PC just clicking and clicking away.)

I just wanted everyone to know about this particular vote...

Thank you all.

[Guandi]

Dear razak

>Now you full well we been back and forth with you on various
>controvesal topics over the time we've been on this board.

Who is we? In fact I had very little back and forth with you, but some with maoshan and tbt.

But that I have on some things a (very) different opinion than maoshan or tbt does not mean that I have anything them. In fact I really respect their hard work and the way they train -- as far as I know. But I do not agree how they represent themselves as they are doing it always in comparison with some other people, who they are -- most of the time -- describing as crap.

>So I'm just a little suspect on your intention.

Hey, I just presented that there is a poll. I did not even make any comment on this subject. So how could this have to do with a bad intention?

>So that shows our interest in letting everyone know.

I did not publish the poll because I wanted to support you, but because I was interested in the result of a bigger audience. If you just want that a selected group will vote in the future you should restrict the access.

Btw I think neither of them would win in an NHB event, because today they are in my opinion simply to old for such events. So the more interesting question would be, who could be able to train fighters to win such events. But that's just my opinion.

Guandi

[razakdigital]

Guandi


Thanks for the reply. It is better for me to receive a reply instead of me assuming anything.

[blacktaoist]

Gunandi you have a right to your opinion and I respect that. But do you think I care how people feel about my opinion about most BaGuaZhang teachers, Most of them In my opinion are Crap.

Most of them have no speed, power, timing, conditioning, balance or real techniques that are practical for fighting. How can any of them teach a student the theory of change in a fight, if they never practice freefighting or never in they life practice freefighting.

Do you think you are going to get fighting knowledge just from practicing two-man forms and reading internal martial arts theory?


There are about 1,000,000 BaGuazhang Therory fighters, But there are only a small hand full of BaGuaZhang Practitioners that can utilize BaGauZhang as a fighting Art. After all thats what BaGua was invented for fighting. Not to sit and have a cup of tea and discusse and memorize mysterious I Ching principles of change from the I Ching diagrams.

What use is reading the I Ching principles of change, if most of them can't use the I Ching diagram sixty-four tactics in combat or crossing hands with a person.(free style- Fighting)

Bottom line, Most BaGuZhang schools don't practice full-contact freefighting. But the so- Called External Kung fu schools do. Even Karate students practice freefighting. Thats why alot of they students are good fighters. Not all talking theory, but puting fighting theory in to action by freefighting. This way they students can explore new ways to utilize they techniques and even invent better combat methods to combine with they already established techniques. I can't say the same for my BaGuaZhang brothers.


Today a lot of BuGuaZhang students are like mental slaves. Many think they Teachers are Gods. When in fact he is just a man, that can get his ass kick like any other man, on any giving day. Just hope one of them days is not yours. LOL

I 'm I the country's foremost expert on Baguaszhang? No I'm not!! But I have a right to my opinion. Yes I feel most BaGuaZhang people can't fight, not just teachers,students also. But thats just my Opinion. I can get my own ass kick just like the next man no matter how skillfull I am. But thats just my opinion. Today there are only a few people that can fight using BaGuaZhang others are just theory fighters. They need to get some listerine to kill the bull$hit they are teaching. After all listerine is clinically proven to kill germs by millions on contact.

But thats just my Opinion. And I will always stand by my opinions. If people don't like my opinion and want to take action. I'm very easy to find.

I live my life not for others, but for self. peace.

;) ;)

[Justa Man]

Btw I think neither of them would win in an NHB event, because today they are in my opinion simply to old for such events.

But if these older guys really had internal skill would their age matter?

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

'Malachi z york' should of been added to your fighter list he is awsome.

[razakdigital]

Ma_Xu_Zha

Which York are are you referring too?

[Justa Man]

i guess my question is rhetorical but i'd like to know what yall think. if technique is superior than muscling, then i'd have to believe that these guys' age do not matter and they would wreck in nhb events regardless of age. after all, all it could take is one well placed internal strike and i don't care how built these nhb fighters are, cuz that strike would sink past all that. i'd really like to hear what yall think.

[Kumkuat]

Originally posted by Justa Man


But if these older guys really had internal skill would their age matter?

yep, internal power is just a different way of expressing power. It's not better nor worse than external power imo. I just don't like how some 'internalists' think internal power will make them gods or something.

[bamboo_ leaf]

I have always maintained that it is the person over the style.
Having said that I have not met anyone who can manifest the same type of power as those that I have met who play TC.

i have met people who where, stonger, faster or used very diffeint types of styles. even if i was beat i could still know what was going on. With some of the TC peopel that i have met this is not possible, their playing on a differnt game borad.

The power that I spoke of earlier is from using Shen, Yi, Chi.
IMHO I don't think that many people outside of IMA run into these types of skills. ;)

I feel that this places the internist at an advantage why?

For the same reason that some feel bjj or any of the other MMA stuff is better. It’s something that most people haven’t encountered yet. I’m talking about TC people who can really use and understand their art.

In the end it still gets back to the person behind the art, but its a very differnt game borad for those that play what are called internal styles :)

[blacktaoist]

Jasta man, Age should not matter at all. What matters is conditioning and skill. Most BaGuaZhang practitioners don't train practical. Many think that one strike well being them victory. What a big myth and fallacious misconception that is being exposed as blatant distortions of the truth.

The truth of the matter is to enhance your fighting skills,You have to practice freefighting. Without conditioning and training for speed, power, timing Immpact training. Ther is no way a person have endurance and stamina to last long in a fight, or even last long fighting other martial artists. I don't care how much Chi kung they practice or how long they practice walking the circle. If they don't practice fighting, they are good as dead!

Internal, External I don't believe in all that bull$hit. I refer to internal as the mindset(adapt strategy wisely) and External is coordination of the entire body to execute techniques with maximum power. Shen (spirit) is what I refer to as chi or Qi. To manifest shen, you must first prepare mentally the will.

Bottom line is many BaGua practitioners don't have real skills because they don't have the will or shen to prepare for the real world of practical martial arts.

They are happy being theory internalists mental slaves.

But thats life! peace. :D

I walk the cirlce 360 degrees,my palm techniques overwhelming all enemys" piercing palm your in the back, your can't see" LOL

[Guandi]

Do you really think that a 80 year old Xie Peiqi with his internal skill is able to win a high class nhb event? Come on, being an internalist does not make you resistent against injuries. Beeing internal or not, these injuries does not heal in this age as fast as in your younger years.

Eg Mike Patterson retired from actively teaching his full contact team because he always sparred with his students to increase their abilities. But he recognized that his injuries from the sparring does not heal as fast as he was younger. You can have iron body skill, but nevertheless this does not mean that you do not get injured. Full contact still is full contact. And I think the phrase that age does not matter at all is just a myth.

Guandi

[blacktaoist]

Guandi from just reading your post. I can tell you don't practice any full-contact or light contact freefighting. You are just like the rest of theses theory fighters.

Anybody that practice freefighting know that they may get injured, thats just part of the game. Age don't matter if a person is practicing the right conditioning training and techniques that are practical for the competition they are about to fight in.

As for your statement about Xie Peiqi, Why would a 80 year old man want to fight in a so called high class nhb competition. But if he did fight in a nhb competition where there are no rules and he is able to utilized dim-mak striking techniques That all Yin styles are renowned for. Xie Peiqi definitely may win, but the downside with be his stamina and recovery time if he gets hit.

No mattter what age you are, if you can't protect yourself in a competition event or in a street fight, if you sustain some damage you may not recover fast, or you may not recover at all!

Bottom line is, Age will matter if you are not training for real and just talking Bull$hit all day about so called internal theory and applications.

What matters in a nhb competition or real fight is not age, But a person have to believe in theyself. Don't hesitate. Don't be timid And have the right mental strategy as well as physical ability and proper methods of fighting.

And thats no Myth thats reality something you need more of in your training , if you train at all.

Peace.

[Guandi]

>Guandi from just reading your post. I can tell you don't practice
>any full-contact or light contact freefighting. You are just like the
>rest of theses theory fighters.

believe what you want to believe

Guandi

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

The question: Who is Dr. Malachi Z. York?

An answer: First off, the reason why I say "An answer" instead of "The answer" is because no web page will be able to fully define who and what this enormous blessing called Dr. Malachi Z. York is. So here I will put forth my best effort in trying to convey to you and at LEAST get you to begin to realize who it is that is amongst us walking on this planet RIGHT NOW and what he is here for.

Dr. Malachi Z. York is the author of over 460 books called scrolls about all topics under and now above the sun. He has been teaching undisputable facts publicly since 1967 and since then no one has come forth to refute his teachings. He tells us he is here to break the evil hypnotic spell of ignorance and elevate us to our once supreme state of being. Those close to him, even his own mother, will tell you that there is something different about this man. I have had the privilege of gazing into his eyes and I too must tell you that there is something different about him. Just one glance into his eyes and I was alerted to the profound wisdom which I found in them. He has been known by many names: Al Hajj Al Imaam Isa(Teacher of Islamic Hebrew), Yaanuwn(Teacher of the Universe),Amunnubi Rooakhptah(Teacher of Egyptology), Melchizedek/Murdoq(Teacher of The Ancient Sumerian), Rabboni: Y’shua(Teacher of Judaism), Al Qubt(The center), Al Khidr(The green one) as well as Sabathil, and Amar Utu. WE call him the master teacher because he is just that, a MASTER at teaching. I HOPE YOU ARE STRAPPED IN!


Read on to learn more....

From a book entitled "Man From Planet Rizq" Study Book One: Supreme Mathematics Class A For The Students Of The Holy Tabernacle Page 23(in part):
"Ques: You have been teaching undisputable facts for over 25 years how did you manage to learn and teach so much information for the amount of years you have?

Ans: "I am a being from the 19th galaxy called ILLYUWN. We have been coming to this planet before it had your life form on it. I manifest into this body to speak through this body. I am a Entity an Etheric being. We watched the 3 other cycles of 18,000 years, two moons and one sun which is part of your 24,000 year cycle, The Equinox; The removal of the dust clouds from the light to the darkness then to the light again. I incarnated into this realm from time to time. My incarnation as an Ilah Mutajassid or Avatara was originally in the year 1945 A.D. In order to get here I traveled by one of the smaller passenger crafts called SHAM out of a motherplane called MERKABAH or NIBIRU.

Then in 1970 A.D., was my time to come in the flesh to start my work of breaking the spell of sleep also called the SPELL OF LEVIATHAN or KINGU, the moon spell or lunatic state of mind with the power as the "Sun Of Righteousness" (Malachi 4:2 ). Earth astronomers thought it was a comet, which they called BENNET that appeared on March 16,1970 A.D Four months before my 25 birthday June 26, 1970 A.D. - The Opening of The Seventh Seal which marked the beginning of The Aquarian Age. An astrophysicist named Ricarrdo Ciacconi sent up a satellite from Kenya, Africa in the year 1970 A.D., to study x-rays in the sky for three years trying to map our coming .The satellite was called "UHURU" which in the Africa language called Swahili , is "Freedom". Swahili is made from two different languages called Bantu and Arabic that was a language created for the slaves trade that occurred in Zanzibar between the Arabs and the scientists were well aware of our coming and called us the Bennett.

I, YAANUWN am an ANUNNAQI or what you would called an Extra-Terrestrial; Extra Terra-Astral ; look at this EXTRA -meaning in addition to; TERRA - Of the Earth; ASTRAL - Of or from the stars. I am what you call an angelic being, An Eloheem from the 8th planet called RIZQ which has 1 moon SHESHQI of it’s own. This galaxy, the nineteenth galaxy called "ILLYUWN" originally referred to as heaven known as Elysium in Greek , has 3 suns 1) SHAMASH 2) UTU 3) APSU which means a tri-solar system with 38 moons and 19 planets. Each with it’s own number of moons. I have incarnated here in this form to act as a human being for the sole purpose of saving The Children Of The ELOHEEM (ANNUNAQI), The Banaat , which is the same word as Bennett , the chosen 144,000. Just as Mary of 2,000 years ago was chosen by the MOST HIGH ,ANU, called an ALIEN which is ‘ALI’ and ‘EN’ (AN), both of which are names for ANU to breed the holy thing called Yashu’a or Jesus, Real Name Tammuz called Horus. So too The Banaat will breed the Savior of this day and time; If they hold firm to the rope on your Planet Earth. The planet Earth is also referred to as Orb, Ard (ARDUWT). QI, Terra or even Tiwawat and Tamtu meaning "Maiden Of Life" . However , It was originally called Tiamat. I YAANUWN, have come to save the children of the ELOHEEM (ANNUNAQI) from being killed as you bring your planet near to what could be its total destruction."

[blacktaoist]

Ma Xu Zha, I know who DR. York is. But I know for a fact by just reading most of these Bull$hit post by some of these unpractical people. That many up here don't have any knowledge of him.

Yes DR. York is great Teacher of real Knowledge. But lets not for get, Dr. Asa G. Hilliard 111, Dr. Ivan Sertima, Indus Khamit-Kush, Dr. jack Felder and **** Gregory.

These are just a few of the scholars I get my Knowlede from. There are others like, Carter G. woodson. -Miseducation of the Negro. George G. M. James-Stolen Legacy. J. A. Rogers-Africa's Gift to America. Dr. Josef Ben Jochanna-Black man of the nile.

I have 1000's of Books in my house of African scholars who true and genuine information enhanced my self-awareness and growth.

So when it comes to Internal Martial arts. It a person can't set the record straight conforming to fact or truth, then they are just victims of a gross miseducation which has produced various levels of "mental slavery.

Peace My Brother.:)

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

Yes, my cell mate Ra turned me on to Dr. Malachi z york book the Secret writings of atum-re, and Ra taught alot of Islamic concepts also. It very much related to alot of hindu, Mayan and buddhist teachings I have studied. Later i met this dreadlock rasta friend Ramie who had more Malachi books so I have had a recent breakthrough in the spiritual dimension. though I am not to familiar with those other authors you mentioned, I have found various truths I can take from Dr. Malachi York.

[Mr. Nemo]

My vote goes to Jason Tsou, simply because he is the only one on that list who I've seen in action. He has certainly sent me flying enough times to convince he has internal power.

However, I disagree with the people on here saying age doesn't matter. Age effects endurance and recovery time. Skilled fighters such as the ones in the UFC or pride generally don't go down quickly no matter how good you are. UFC title fights last 25 minutes total, and pride fights last 20 minutes. You have to be in very good condition to last that long, and I don't think a 50+ years old man can keep up with the fighters there unless he finishes the fight very quickly.

Formats like K-1 and muay thai would severely limit the tools of a bagua stylist. I think our chances would be better in a mixed martial arts competition, and best in something like san shou or koushou.

[Justa Man]

Too bad there aren't kumites like the one Van Damme played Frank Dux in. I mean, there probably are, but too bad I don't know about when and where they are and that all the Ba Gua Instructors in BT's poll don't enter them.
But actually, that's just senseless violence anyway so forget I said that.
It is too bad that there is no real way to find out who truly is the top fighter. I've never seen any of these guys in action, and just to see one of them in a real world situation would be great. I mean, it would probably be REAL bad for whoever they were up against, but a remarkable sight nontheless.

[razakdigital]

Ma_Xu_Zha

Thanks for the reply on Dr. York. I know who he is I just wanted to see if we know the same person. You brought a heavy name on this board.

You need a whole forum on this board for that type of topic....

look into the authors TBT talked about ... heavy guys he mentioned..

[razakdigital]

He isn't different from other religions from such as Christianity, Islam, and Judism...all of these religions have their own cults and such...so if your goal was to show the other side of Dr. York you have done your job. I can just as much proof on the lies in other groups as well...

One thing give credit to him is (from the pictures I've seen) is that he has beautiful setup the emulates Egypt (Kemet) which gives credit to our ancestors...

[razakdigital]

I agree that it is up to the person to investigate their own relationship to their creator. From my knowledge he doesn not teach Pa Kua. I can further investigate but I doubt it. I do know they will and can defend themselves.

[Mojo]

I got news for you guys.
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who claims to be from another planet or who claims that they are channeling an entity from another planet... is a fraud.
That's right, a fraud.
Take every thing else he has to say with that in mind.

[razakdigital]

I can agree with that but....who says he is not wrong? I'm not a follower - and I know my Sifu ain't a follower also...but who says he is wrong? What's the deal with ROSWELL? There are many people around the world talk about UFO abduction. There are some people that believe that there was an old man that put 2 pairs of all the animals on earth in a wooden boat that survive a flood for that engulf the Earth.

Who says?

[Mojo]

Who can say ?
Not me, that's for sure.
Also, his belief system seems harmless enough to me. Quite imaginative and fanciful, to say the least.

Man, I'm just going to have to start my own religion. I'll base it on my love of big breasted women and money.
Sign up here.

[razakdigital]

Well you defintely will have a lot of members...I always said the two top professions to be in to get women are pimps and preachers...

you might have to do a lot of talking but the results are worth it!:D :D :D

[blacktaoist]

Yo, Mojo if you love big Breasted woman, Then you love this web site. Go to www.tino.co.okpictrueboard. This is a good web site for all you Seminal Kung fu Practitioners. LOL

[blacktaoist]

www.tino.co.uk:D :D :D