How do you train for the "real deal"?

[Convergence]

Without putting a sparring partner in the hospital or beating the daylights out of some unsuspecting individual walking down the street, how do you train for the "real deal"?

Humbly,

Convergence


"Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility." - Proverbs 18:12

[El_CLap]

By sparring full contact. Just because you are going at it hard doesn't mean that you are going to put your partner in the hospital. In sparring I've never been REALLY hurt badly. I've hurt my hands, had my nose and lips busted, a few black eyes etc etc, but no real serious damage was ever done. And then when it's obvious that you or your partner should stop pummeling each other to catch your breath, then do so.

[Sharky]

how did you hurt your hands?

=================================
What we really need is chicks with a whole new kinda orifice - Fish

Sharky, I should expect this level of immaturity from you after seeing your post titled "Hm." regarding the woman that lives next door to you. I think everyone who unfortuneatly read that post is a bit more ignorant now for doing so. - Spectre

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[shaolinboxer]

The real deal, as you say, is a matter of life and death.

Unless you are afraid you might actually die, you are not facing the real deal.

Therefore, you can train you technique and your mind, but can you train to face death without actually facing it? I don't know.

Anyone?

[wingchunalex]

i do slow speed, regulgular, and full contact. pluss conditioning such as iron palm and forarm and being able to take heavy blows to the stomach

know yourself don't show yourself, think well of yorself don't tell of yourself. lao tzu

[Martial Joe]

I train...thats about it...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[old jong]

Fighting is not sparring. I say like Joe! ;)

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[vingtsunstudent]

sparring is different from the way a wing chun man should move, in reality there is no holding back.
whilst practicing wing chun i have never sparred, wing chun not only teaches you how to move it teaches you how to think(ie mindset)
as i have said before, i was a bouncer for several years & had more fights than i care to remember(yes some were with drunks but a hell of a lot were not, also some against more than one person) & in no way did i ever find that sparring would have made any difference.
hey, i'll be the first to admit that i've been hit, hell, i've been kinghit, headbutted,kicked in the balls, bitten(twice) and had injuries to go with them but if you think your not going to get hit then you are dreaming.
what am i trying to say?
THINK- learn to understand your system, learn to understand & apply the lessons learnt from chi sao(and how they can bridge the gap between training & fighting)and above all else prepare yourself mentally so that when it's GO time you are the most savage beast, with no thought of self, that the world has ever seen.
if you are not committed 100% to fighting your opponent then you shouldn't be there.
no matter what way you look at it sparring is a game, which has rules, & fighting is not.
sorry, i should mention that we practice drills that we hope also help bridge the gap between training & fighting but they are in no way sparring, nor do they allow you to have to hold anything back.
vts

[old jong]

That's the way!...Chi sau is only an exercice but after years and lots of it you simply use the results of it and it is an exercice no more. What else to say?

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[hunt1]

training for real fighting is the hardest thing for stand up martial artists to do.Full power punchs elbows etc would leave everyone spending more hospital time than training time.Th real advantage graplers have over punchers/kickers is the fact that they can train at 95% of the level of a real fight.
Nothing can fully prepare you for fighting other than fighting but some things can come close.The keys to fighting are having confidence in your technique(this comes from chi sao)the ability to respond without thinking(chi sao again) and the ability to not be shocked or surprised by the power and pain of a real hit( this only can come from fighting which is not practical as a training tool or a form of full contact sparring.) It is essential to not be shocked by contact.I doubt the fighting experience and abilities of anyone who says chi sao is all you need.

[vingtsunstudent]

there are other ways to gain experience in what it is like to be hit hard without sparring.
try playing rugby league for 13 years & tell me that your body isn't used to getting hit & hit hard(this does include the shock of being hit in the face as not everyone plays fair)
there are probably a million other ways of getting used to this shock but i have listed the way i(although that was'nt my reason for playing) that i did.
'I doubt the fighting experience and abilities of anyone who says chi sao is all you need.'
hmmm, sorry but i have to disagree.
do you doubt the fighting ability of yip man & wong shun leung?
from what i understand they didn't spar, but as always i am probably wrong.
vts

[hunt1]

they fought.As I said the best training for fighting is fighting.Rugby is nice but its a game.Sure anything that gets you used to getting hit helps but in a game full power hits to your face are usually an accident and are unseen.If you ever fought you know that when looking across at someone who might injure or kill you is a totally different reality.Fights happen fast.To win a fight it is best to contol a persons mind.One of the reasons we train to control center of gravity is when someone loses balance they instinctually try to regain it.Hence instead of hitting you their focus is on their balance hence you get a free shot if you have the skill to take advantage.When something comes at your eye instinct takes over, 99% of people move head back and arms up. You get the free shot because you contol the oppenents mind.Most lose fights because when they get hit their focus shifts to the hit for a moment .Control of that moment is what must be trained in order to survive and win.Some can contol it naturally but most cant.Sparring is not the only way to train to control that moment but it is the most common and if a minimum of protection is used the most effective overall.There are always exceptional people who can fight no matter what.

[tsb]

Didn't WSL and Yip Man get a lot of fighting experience from actually fighting?

At least it sounds like that's how you got a lot of your experience, vingtsunstudent.

I don't think that getting hit with cheap shots in rugby compares to a stiff right cross. At least in terms of how to defend against it and respond, it doesn't. There may be a million ways to prepare yourself for being hit, but why not prepare in a way that closely resembles how you will be struck, thrown, or taken down in a real situation.

Sparring sure as hell ain't fighting but it may be the next best preparatory tool. I have yet to see someone offer up a better suggestion.

[vingtsunstudent]

like i have said(whether you believe me or not is up to you)i have fought many times.
my refference to rugby league was one which was to show that you get used to the shock of being struck whilst playing any CONTACT sport, i never said it made me better fighter only that when i get hit the shock is a lot less than if i hadn't experienced being pounded by 2 or 3 guys in a gang tackle before.
my last experience as a doorman-
working alone(silly)
party arrives
have run in with 4 guys over a girl not having i.d.
later, 2 guys arrive, one tall islander & his little white wanna be mate.
i refuse entry to them, arguement insues, i knock islander down once then his little friend tries to sneek past on the other side.
as i stop him his mate kinghits me from behind, i turn, tie up his arms & pin him against the wall, i am then grabbed by 4 of his friends from inside by the throat & pulled off.
i then proceed to watch him again hit me right between the eyes whilst his mates had hold of me.
after all this he is now standing behind all his mates telling me that he is now ready to fight me.
not being completely stupid i decided it was better to stand my ground than try & go through 10 of his mates to get him.
not once was i put to the ground(i later had surgery to fix my broken zygomatic arch[cheekbone]from his first hit & required 4 stitches to the forehead from his second)
this is just one of many confrontations i had to deal with & probably the only time i didn't get a chance to inflict any real damage on the other guy.
wow, and i have never sparred in my life yet you like to believe that there is only fighting or sparring that will get you ready for the shock of being hit.WRONG.
'If you ever fought you know that when looking across at someone who might injure or kill you is a totally different reality.'
yes that is true, mind you i have a friend who at 15 died on the field whilst we were playing, he was revived but after a prolonged time in a coma he now has permanent brain damage. so please again don't tell me it's a soft game that won't condition your body or mind.
would you like to argue that running a ball & knowing that the other side want hurt you doesn't take a certain amount of mental fortitude,
well again you are wrong.
vts

[sanchezero]

chi sao, forms and conditioning (1000s of punches and kicks etc).

I find chi sao WAY more benificial than sparring, but I have to admit to being a chi sao addict. :D

Every few months I hook up with some non VT MAs to 'fight'. We use really light pads and just go at it. None of us train together and most of us aren't friends, so we seem to be OK whanling on each other. They do alot of sparring and swear by it. These 'fights' are the only sparring I do. I never feel at a disadvantage and usually give alot more than I get.

As for the real deal I've only fought a couple 'o times since I began training kung fu and both fights were over in seconds with me walking away from people on the ground. I don't however believe that I was fighting real 'hard men', just wannabees. :)

[Spectre]

Due to the fact that real 'life or death' situations are never the same, it would be very difficult to train for such.

The best that you can do is to think of every possible way to defend any possible attack.

In my opinion, the only way to get a true idea of how someone may attack is to ask friends, who are not martial artists, to attack you. This would allow you to get a better idea of what would come if someone tries to attack you without a 'technique' based approach.

My two cents...

Kevin
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Continued blessings in your life and your training.

The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.