I got a problem...i hope you can help

[Jeff Liboiron]

Since i am missing my leg i find when doing certain techniques (mainly pak sau, and tan sau), i have trouble rushing in on my opponent and taking them out. Any thoughts of how i could apply these techniques differently?

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

- Where's my Mook?

[Gluteus Maximus]

Hi Jeff. How much articulation and control have you got with your prosthetic leg? Are you missing the whole leg or the lower leg?

Can you lock and unlock your knee freely? Can you put all your weight on it and take it off again quickly?

I'm thinking that maybe you could keep 100% of your weight on your back leg and use your front (prosthetic) leg for adduction to help pull yourself forward the way they do in Wing Tsun. I'm not a Wing Tsun man, but it might be worth speaking with some of the WT guys on here about their stances and footwork.

Cheers,

"42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Max

[This message was edited by Gluteus Maximus on 12-02-01 at 10:23 PM.]

[This message was edited by Gluteus Maximus on 12-02-01 at 10:24 PM.]

[Jeff Liboiron]

Thanks for the reply :)

I have some of my leg, but am missing the knee, and i always have my wight on my back leg (my good one), and i'm unable to use my prosthetic to rush in as i cannot grip the ground with it.

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

- Where's my Mook?

[rubthebuddha]

honestly, i have no clue on how to help you, but i think it kicks a$$ that you're sticking with and making it work.

lotsa kudos!

-rtb

[fmann]

Exactly how much weight can you put on your prosthetic leg before it becomes unbearable? And how do you move forward normally (not rushing in)?

[fa_jing]

When you rush in, you will need to put some weight on the front foot. Have you thought of keeping the artificial leg back? If you can push off with it, then you're in business. Plus you could kick and block with your front foot, if you are able to balance on the artificial leg. Bill Wallace was a famous kicking specialist with a bum knee, he kicked with the good leg and kept it forward. Just an idea, I'm sure you have reasons for your configuration. -FJ

[mun hung]

Why do you feel that you must rush in at all to use these techniques?

*It takes effort to learn to do something without*

[Gluteus Maximus]

Good suggestion fa_jing. Jeff would probably need his knee to be able to do that and to put his whole weight on it though.

Jeff, I have a friend who lost half his leg in a fire when he was a kid. He has to swing it to walk and can't put much weight on it either. He mainly uses his prosthetic leg for balance. His good leg is much better developed than the average person's.

I know I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but you'll have to adapt by concentrating on developing a strong, moveable root on one leg - ie adapt Biu Ma footwork by springing off your good leg to shoot either straight forward or at a 45 degree angle while momentarily maintaining balance with your other leg, then quickly re-establishing your root on your good leg. You'll only be able to triangular-step to one side of your opponent, but that doesn't matter - just concentrate on developing strong inside skills with your Chi Sao.

"42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Max

[dzu]

Jeff,

It's difficult to help without knowing more about your prosthetic and how much load bearing capability it has and how much control you have when moving or stepping. Without the knee, it will be difficult to absorb force or generate force in that leg. Does your prosthetic have a joint you can control where the knee should be? You may be able to stand on it statically, but may not have the necessary refined dynamics to root with it. How do you normally walk or move about?

Rooting can occur with one or both legs, so in your case, practice hard to feel and root on one leg.

What you lack in mobility, you can compensate by using better positioning and better timing. If you can't step in to intercept, you can do the opposite and (if you have good structure and root) let the punch come to you and redirect or guide it away. In order to hurt you, the opponent has to be able to touch you. Likewise, you should also be able to touch him. Develop the ability to lead his intention and his force.

Instead of using 'large' methods of evasion such as stepping, train the 'small' methods such as subtle shifting and body adjustment/alignment.

Another issue is kicking. Can you kick with the prosthetic either by standing on it or using it to kick? Is it securely fastened to the remainder of your leg such that you can use it to kick or sweep without losing it or breaking it? How durable is it?

It may be that your prosthetic can be used as a built in weapon since it has no nerve endings and has the advantage of being more durable than a shin or foot.

Dzu

[Jeff Liboiron]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fmann:
Exactly how much weight can you put on your prosthetic leg before it becomes unbearable? And how do you move forward normally (not rushing in)?[/quote]

I always use my back leg to rush in. I can't put much weight on my prosthetic (probably only 30%) becasue i have no knee to support the weight

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

- Where's my Mook?

[Jeff Liboiron]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dzu:
Jeff,

Another issue is kicking. Can you kick with the prosthetic either by standing on it or using it to kick? Is it securely fastened to the remainder of your leg such that you can use it to kick or sweep without losing it or breaking it? How durable is it?

It may be that your prosthetic can be used as a built in weapon since it has no nerve endings and has the advantage of being more durable than a shin or foot.

Dzu[/quote]


I am able to kick and sweep with my good leg while standing on my prosthesis, but i can't balance for long. My leg is also very durable, and can take quite a bit of punishment, but not toooooooo much :)

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

- Where's my Mook?

[Jeff Liboiron]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fa_jing:
When you rush in, you will need to put some weight on the front foot. Have you thought of keeping the artificial leg back? If you can push off with it, then you're in business. Plus you could kick and block with your front foot, if you are able to balance on the artificial leg. Bill Wallace was a famous kicking specialist with a bum knee, he kicked with the good leg and kept it forward. Just an idea, I'm sure you have reasons for your configuration. -FJ[/quote]

This is a good suggestion :) however, i prefer to keep my prosthetic forward to protect my good leg, and also i cannot launch off with my prosthetic.

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

- Where's my Mook?

[Jeff Liboiron]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mun hung:
Why do you feel that you must rush in at all to use these techniques?

*It takes effort to learn to do something without*[/quote]

Sometimes when i do pak or tan, i find my punching range a little short.

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

- Where's my Mook?

[Jeff Liboiron]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gluteus Maximus:
Good suggestion fa_jing. Jeff would probably need his knee to be able to do that and to put his whole weight on it though.

Jeff, I have a friend who lost half his leg in a fire when he was a kid. He has to swing it to walk and can't put much weight on it either. He mainly uses his prosthetic leg for balance. His good leg is much better developed than the average person's.

I know I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but you'll have to adapt by concentrating on developing a strong, moveable root on one leg - ie adapt Biu Ma footwork by springing off your good leg to shoot either straight forward or at a 45 degree angle while momentarily maintaining balance with your other leg, then quickly re-establishing your root on your good leg. You'll only be able to triangular-step to one side of your opponent, but that doesn't matter - just concentrate on developing strong inside skills with your Chi Sao.

"42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Max


[/quote]


Good suggestion Gluteus :) yeah, alot of the other people commenting on this thread have said the same thing about developing a strong root with one leg. I will work on that alot :)

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

- Where's my Mook?

[Jeff Liboiron]

Also, does anyone have any drills for developing the root, other than through forms?

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

- Where's my Mook?

[Martial Joe]

Now jeff...I will have to tell you this,sit down,and take a relaxing poop.

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[Jeff Liboiron]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Martial Joe:
Now jeff...I will have to tell you this,sit down,and take a relaxing poop.

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...[/quote]

I took two today already Joe :)

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

- Where's my Mook?

[Martial Joe]

I took one today,and it was weird...I dont think I have had so many little nuggets before...


I am going to sleep,goodnight...


Jeff,you have heart,thats awsome.
But would you train if you had two fake legs?

And one more...how is your stance due to only having one real leg?

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[Jeff Liboiron]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Martial Joe:
I took one today,and it was weird...I dont think I have had so many little nuggets before...


I am going to sleep,goodnight...


Jeff,you have heart,thats awsome.
But would you train if you had two fake legs?

And one more...how is your stance due to only having one real leg?

[/quote]

Ok first of all, lets not turn this into the "take a poop thread" :D

I would defintately train if i had 2 fake legs, but i'm glad i don't :)

My stance is basically pretty good, i'm just not as "rooted" as other people, and my structure isn't as good as someone with 2 good legs either, but i will make it work for me :)

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

- Where's my Mook?

[whippinghand]

Someone once told me that one of the goals in martial art (as he trains it) is to be able to build enough power that you could stand on one leg, and be able to knock someone out. My point, as I indicated in my e-mail to you, is that the extra leg doesn't necessarily give you an advantage over someone who has two.

You don't need to rush in. That's actually a ridiculous notion (no offense), but a popular belief. It also goes against Wing Chun principle, as well as many others'. Do you know the idiom: "Stay with what comes, send with what goes, nothing in the way...."

As for how to build your rootedness: that's what the forms are for.....
(And then there's staff training.)

[mun hung]

"Sometimes when I do pak or tan, I find my punching range a little short."

Wait a little longer before executing.

Maybe you should capitalize on the things that you can do.

*It takes effort to learn to do something without*

[dzu]

Jeff,

You can start by practicing SNT to develop relaxation and body alignment. However, to develop and refine the use of this alignment requires the help of a partner. You need to feel external force to develop relaxation and complete awareness of your balance.

Begin by having them place a mild yet constant pressure on your sternum so that you can sense where the intention and force is going. Practice adjusting your body and leg to maintain your horse and divert the force into the ground. You may feel a compression in the foot at first, but as you improve, your adjustments will become more subtle.

Eventually, have your partner increase the pressure slowly so that you can feel and adjust accordingly. You can then incorporate the arms by having your partner apply steady pressure to your fist, palm, tan sau, bong sau, etc. You can also extend your other leg and have them push on it to test your root while kicking. Try not to lean or over exert your muscles to compensate for the external force. If you feel your muscles actually working, then you're doing it wrong. Stop, reset, and start again while trying to remain relaxed.

Rooting is the same regardless of if you are standing on 1 or 2 feet. This will help you get started to at least get used to the feeling of root. The next step is then trying to actively apply your rootedness rather than just receiving the force.

Dzu