KUNGFUMAGAZINE FORUM TOURNAMENT

[The Willow Sword]

WHO HERE WOULD BE WILLING TO TRAVEL TO A KFM OPEN TOURNAMENT? AND IF WE GET ENOUGH HERE TO GO FOR IT WILL KFM HOST IT AND WHERE?

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
Luke?! Luke?! dont give into hate. That leads to the dark side.
Obi Wan Kenobi,,star wars, empire strikes back.

[wushu chik]

I am all for it. I think it would be a good idea, and it would finally get some agressions out.

I am ALWAYS Kung Fu Fighting.....what about you?

[Starchaser107]

I am all for it , just depends on the when if its mid to late next year then by all means im there.

"everything is everything"_W.Rodney

[GeneChing]

We did one before and it was a disaster. If any of you want to visit our office, you are most welcome. Just keep your fights out in the parking lot :p

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[Shaolindynasty]

OUT! All that tournament would be is a bunch of muscle flexing. It wouldn't be about skill, it'd be about winning. A good tournament should be about showing skill in your art.


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[Starchaser107]

Sorry I came in late ,
what happened, anybody care to fill me in?

really sorry to hear it didnt come off too well, when was this?

"everything is everything"_W.Rodney

[The Willow Sword]

The reason that things(events) become disaterous is that they are poorly handled and poorly set up. proper rules and waivers and the like with folks to enforce these rules are the key,,and good sportsmanship is a factor as well,,i know that i would not want to go to an open tournament to brutalize people. there was a guy that was at an AAU tournament a few years ago in Round Rock texas that was breaking rules and he got disqualified and i happened to win that tournament(the mens advanced sparring) the judges were strict and decisive. he and i were the last to fight and i maintained integrity and he continued to go past the boundary set. I won.
GENE dont be afraid to set up another tournament,,you guys are popular and im sure that you guys can get GOOD sponsorship and a GOOD crew of people to run it. PLEASE RECONSIDER.
MAny Respects, Willow SWord

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
Luke?! Luke?! dont give into hate. That leads to the dark side.
Obi Wan Kenobi,,star wars, empire strikes back.

[KungFuGuy!]

Is this only for kung fu students, or any style? I've only been training in kung fu for a short while, so I'm still much more comfortable with BJJ.

[Starchaser107]

I think we'd all want it to be "Open" , not just for kung fu practicioners alone but for all styles.
I think it would be an experience to meet all of these people who contribute to this forum.
If Kungfu Mag doesnt wanna take the responsibility then maybe another school would possibly care to take it on? its just up in the air for now I guess. So far what , me willow sword and wushu chick seem down... not much of a tourney but enough for a few drinks.
But seriously I'd have thought there would have been a higher level of support for this.
I know what the deal is like for tourneys Ive been a competitor and judge , I know its a hassle unfair and robbery...but thtas only sometimes.
you guys should speak up.

"everything is everything"_W.Rodney

[KungFuGuy!]

If I can use BJJ, I'm up for it.

[reemul]

on the rules

[wushu chik]

Hey, didn't you hear Gene?? HE SAID NO. Sheesh. Oh well....I guess we will all have to find one in the middle of the country we can meet at.....

I am ALWAYS Kung Fu Fighting.....what about you?

[GeneChing]

Our company actually does everything in martial arts but tournaments. Since we don't have a school (although we do manage many) we lack the volunteer base necessary to run a tournament. Everyone here is paid staff - it's our job - and not everyone is a martialarts person, so it doesn't work the same way as if a school was to organize something.
We did one years ago and it didn't work out. I wasn't there for it, so I really don't know too much about it, except that it left a bad taste in everyone's mouth (although not as bad as our venture into moviemaking!) A big part of the problem is that we supply ALL martial arts, so the tournament would have to have everything, which is too overwhelming.
But I'm always eager to hear about when you all duke it out at other people's tournaments. It's been great getting the chance to meet forum members in the flesh at these events.

[Daniel Madar]

What movie did you guys make? Cyborg?

I loved that one.

Where are your offices located, Fremont?

-D

[GeneChing]

Starring a pre-Taebo Billy Blanks no less. And Bolo Yeung. It was awful - a post-apocalypse setting where the armor was ever-so-slightly modified sparring gear by our parent company Tiger Claw. There was an old thread on it on the TC Media forum.

Our publishing office is in Fremont CA, about 40 miles south of SF. We have another shipping warehouse in Tennessee, and factories in Asia. But the magazine is done here in Fremont. If you're ever in the neighborhood, drop us a line!

[Daniel Madar]

Thanks to the wonders of excite@home, I'm once again looking for a job... I can swing by everyday if you guys want to hire me.

I used to write for Macworld, so it's not that big a stretch...

:)

[GeneChing]

...but are looking for an onsife webmaster. Can you do that?

[Daniel Madar]

you a private message I think...

I tried to email you, but it said your default was set to no email.

:(

Email me a job descript and salary quote, and I'll tell you if I can do it or know someone who can.

-D

[Shaolindynasty]

**** it! I want a Kungfu job, I need to move to California don't I?

[GeneChing]

Daniel - I got the PM and am looking into it for you. However, it looks like we may have just hired someone, so it might all be moot.

SD - You know, I've been making my living from martial arts only since the late '80's, and only a small fraction of that has been from teaching. My advice - keep your day job until your night job pays.
People are always ranting about "oh so-and-so sold out" or they are just in it for the money - I got a big wake up call for you - there ain't that much money here. You can make a living certainly, but for the amount of work you have to put into it, well, it would be wiser to be something else if you're in it for money. If you're teaching, you do get to work out a lot, in fact you have to do so, no matter if you're sick or injured. That's cool, except when you're sick or injured. I will say this though - it's not like the kid in the candyshop who gets sick of candy. But if you want to make it happen, follow your bliss. That's what I did and it led me here - not at all where I thought I was going.

[Daniel Madar]

Foiled again.

So Gene, do you know any people who play xingyi in Tokyo? I'm thinking of a specific group in near Kamata. I don't know much about them, but I may be moving to the Big T soon, so I'm trying to find out as much as possible.

As for making your living from MA, I think Tai chi is most likely the way to go.I know a master in SF who has around 60-70 students, charges 80 bucks a month, and only accepts cash. That's 5k a month, tax free. Heck of a lot more than he saw in China, I'll bet...

:)

[Shaolindynasty]

I already know I won't ever get rich but I love to work with stuff I love. Any MA related stuff is fine with me. I plan on going back to school and study art. So something should come along sooner or later. I'll just scrap by as is my way. Teaching doesn't make me ANY money really but I still love to do it(even though I haven't been doing it long). Don't worry about selling out Gene, I hope to also some day :D

[Royal Dragon]

If that's so, then how do you explain all theses Tae Kwon Do Karate schools with 200 + students?

Lets see shall we? 200 students X $90 a month for twice a week (common in my area) that comes to $16000.00 PER MONTH GROSS!!

OK, so you say your area can only get $75 pre month for twice a week? that comes to .......ready?.............$15000!!! PER MONTH!!!

Yup kids, that's Fifteen THOUSAND Dollars gross per month.

Tom Saviano (trained Kieth Hackney) tells me he has 185 students in his tiny little school, now, at $75 per month for them going only twice a week (over half of his are on the "unlimited" at $100 per month), that's $13875 per month Again, that's grossing Thirteen THOUSAND Eight hundered, seventy five every month.
Lets see what that is a year..........Ok ready........$166,500.00

Now, he's grossing a Hundred Sixty Six THOUSAND per year (WOW!!), and you guys say there's no money in martial arts? What are Ya goofy?

Royal Dragon

[Daniel Madar]

Most people don't have a heck of a lot of business sense, which is why they have to resort to bad marketing rather than savvy accounting.

Want to make your Martial Arts hobby a write of? Look into forming a non profit. All your equipment, your training time, your trips to tournaments... Got a small school? Make it the institute for the Furtherance of X style, and you can even get funding for it. There's a capoiraie (SP) school in SF that's doing that right now.

And if you do it right, you could even set it up to provide insurance for members, etc.

It's actually not all that easy, but it's not all that hard either.

[Royal Dragon]

Wow, do you have any contact info so I can look into this further?

Royaldragon@netzero.net

[Royal Dragon]

HA!!!, I just noticed my profile says I registered in 1970. looks like Y2K got theses guys!!! :eek:

Heck, according to this site, I registered at the age of two!!!!:p :D :eek:

[Fen]

I think it would be a good idea for everyone to get together for a tournament. It would be a good way to display everyone's individual skills.

[GeneChing]

We're not putting on a 'official' forum tournament, but there's nothing to stop you doing anything unofficial - like that challenge match if it's ever going to happen.

Daniel: I don't know anything about Tokyo. Sorry.

Royal: Now I didn't say there was no money, obviously there's some or I wouldn't be here. There just not that much. First of all, never, never calculate on gross profit. There are plenty of expenses to run a school - rent, insurance, maintenence, lawsuits, paying employees, etc. And when you run your own school, you don't get much vacation or sick leave. It's all on you.
Surely some savvy teachers can parlay this into a handsome sum, since the commodity is skill, but I still think it's much easier to do something else.

[Daniel Madar]

Found some.

I actually found the guy who was motion captured to play Gen Fu for Dead or Alive...

:)

If I move, I'll see about actually writing you an article, like I've been planning for ages...

Now, back to the topic:

I think a Kung Fu online tournament would be great. It would be just like Bloodsport, but better... I understand Frank Dux was auctioning himself off on ebay recently, so maybe we could get him to officiate?

:)

[fgxpanzerz]

hahaha. I know who you are. I'm telling

[The Willow Sword]

Got the wrong guy Pal ....never been married.:rolleyes:

[wushu chik]

Yeah, UH HUH...that's what they ALL SAY...just joking!

[SevenStar]

I saw that movie.... I wouldn't have admitted to being involved with it!

[diego]

No money? What? I don't buy it!!!
If that's so, then how do you explain all theses Tae Kwon Do Karate schools with 200 + students?

Lets see shall we? 200 students X $90 a month for twice a week (common in my area) that comes to $16000.00 PER MONTH GROSS!!

OK, so you say your area can only get $75 pre month for twice a week? that comes to .......ready?.............$15000!!! PER MONTH!!!

Yup kids, that's Fifteen THOUSAND Dollars gross per month.

Tom Saviano (trained Kieth Hackney) tells me he has 185 students in his tiny little school, now, at $75 per month for them going only twice a week (over half of his are on the "unlimited" at $100 per month), that's $13875 per month Again, that's grossing Thirteen THOUSAND Eight hundered, seventy five every month.
Lets see what that is a year..........Ok ready........$166,500.00

Now, he's grossing a Hundred Sixty Six THOUSAND per year (WOW!!), and you guys say there's no money in martial arts? What are Ya goofy?

Royal Dragon

[norther practitioner]

Yeah, thats like not a lot of money to gross in a business. Insurance for MA schools is rediculous, power bill, rent, phone, upkeep, employees, then you get down to personal salary. I am sure there are people who do/can make oodles of money, but when you think about it, most really don't. :)

[GeneChing]

All I can say is if there's such easy money in MA, why aren't we all doing it? I mean really, we can all push enough bull to run one of these mcdojos everyone always complains about. And don't claim the moral high ground about selling out - if that's an issue, then just push the good stuff. Imagine, you could just live in the martial world 24/7, teach, practice, make money. Trust me, it's hard work.

As for TC2000, that was before I was with the company. To bad, I would have loved to be in it...

[Silumkid]

TC2000...hee hee! That was even before I was at Tiger Claw! I share those sentiments, Gene. What a great cheese piece that would be for a resume!

[The Willow Sword]

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the thread at hand,,the above posts i mean. Heres an idea: GET BETTER SPONSERS FOR A TOURNAMENT. PUT SOME REAL MONEY IN THE THING. THE END RESULT: to establish a harmonious gathering of martial minds, and KFmagazine backing it. HELL ill bet even some celebs will show up to the thing,,,,if they can do interviews for the mag. then why not do a tournament? come on guys THINK it through.
YOU all seem to be intelligent: the magazine is great,,,,,,need i state more?

[GeneChing]

See, that's the intrinsic problem with us doing a tournament - we sponsor other people's tournaments. Imagine tournaments to be like sitcom and tournament sponsors to be like advertisers. We are the tournament sponsors, we advertise at other people's sitcoms. It's beyond our bandwidth to do everything, so we just focus on what we do well.
Besides, you realy think we'd have time to do interviews AND run a tournament at the same time?

However, we are throwing a gala party for our anniversary on Aug 24th, 2002. There will be a big demo and all of our past cover masters will be invited, but no official matches (but if you've been at such gatherings, you know all the good stuff goes on in the hallways, not the rings.) It's a benefit for the 2008 USA Olympic Wushu Team. For more info, click Kungfu Magazine on the upper lefthand corner of your screen, then click the 10 year Anniversary fire breath of our dragon. We'll see you there.

[MightyB]

The school that I go to holds a big open tournament every year. I believe we're up to the 5th annual now. It's the Midland Martial Arts Open in Midland, MI. All styles are welcome. We usually have a good tournement with competitors coming from all over Michigan, Texas, and Ohio mainly. It's actually an event with a martial arts masters demo afterwords. Some of the passed demos have been done by Sigung Chung Ho Yin and Sifu Henry Chung, Sigung Lily Lau, Sifu Calmon Wong, Sifu Raymond Fogg and many others. We've had demos from kendo, muy thai, tae kwon do, and shorin ryu karate.

The event is held in April, I don't have the date yet. All styles are welcome. We don't have San Shou or Suai Jou yet. But, we do have continuous sparring, weapons sparring--both short and long weapons, weapons and open hand forms and we pull judges that represent multiple styles for each event. For example, in open hand forms, you may have a judge who is from karate, another from eagle claw, another from tae kwon do. We do that to try and keep it unbiased.

Email me for info.

The B

[Daniel Madar]

to get back to the subsidiary line of this thread, a million dollars liability insurance costs less than two hundred dollars a year. I hardly consider that to be ridiculously expensive. If you are paying more you got insured at the long place.

[GeneChing]

...and it varies from state to state.
Now again, I'll say that martial arts can be profitable and some professionals do very well - but many more don't. My main contention with the whole "easy money" trip in the martial arts, and this is coming from the perspective of someone who has earned their living solely from the martial arts for well over a decade, is if it's so easy, why don't we all do it? I mean really, we all love martial arts here. Why not just take the easy road a become professional like me? It's like having your cake and eating it too. The reason is it's not that easy. Many non-professionals assume it is, but it's not. By it's very nature, martial arts if quite competative and if you run your own school, you are really all alone out there. But if you really want to know, go for it. Open a school. Make your living out here for a few years, and then tell me it's easy money.
Only voices of experience can testify here. I'd like to hear from some people who actually run schools on this thread.

[Daniel Madar]

I think you are misunderstanding me Gene, or I'm just reading you wrong.

What I'm saying is that, while I've never run a MA school, I have started and run two other businesses, and all businesses follow the same principles. Much as I and many other people would like to feel that martial arts is somehow different, it's a lie.

Anyone who wants to open a martial arts school, full time or part time, needs to take serious stock of their needs, and how to meet them. And they should shop around.

Need a space to practice? What's wrong with the park, it's free. Park not an option, how about a public space? I know a few guys who did decide to open a school, and they got the nice place on the strip with the cool sign. They spent hundreds before they got their first student. Is that good business? No.

Employees? How large do you plan on making your school. If you allow senior students to handle class, will they expect to be paid? Some will, some won't.

Utilities? Well, that depends on how you negotiated for your space.

Martial arts has nothing to do with this, and business savvy has everything to do with it.

The people I know who started martial arts schools failed miserably. Why? They were good martial artists--at least they thought-- but they sucked at business. The claim that we can all push enough bull to run a Mcdojo is incorrect. We can all push enough bull to open a Mcdojo. Running one is another animal completely.

The post about being able to get insurance for under two hundred dollars was merely to demonstrate the ignorant assumptions many people make without ever checking into the facts. Perhaps its my bad for not being specific enough,

At no point in time, during any of my posts did I describe MA as being easy money.

((During one of my posts I described using MA as a tax shelter, and that, as I said before, is not easy, but it's not hard.))

Even so, as a person who has worked in Martial arts for 10 years, especially at a magazine, you of all people should clearly understand the truth of martial arts being a business.

As for me, I made the mistake of trying to make a business out of something I loved before. The business might have succeeded, but the passion died somewhere along the way. That, not money, is the real danger of trying to open a school.

[Silumkid]

I don't know if there is a difference in parks between CA and other states as far as usage goes, but in CA parks it is far from "free" to run an organized event of any kind. Many times certain parks and rec departments are fairly lax on their rules but there are quite a few very strict ones as well. All it takes is for someone to find out you are running an organized event and the park can legally require you to get a permit. Some parks' permits can run up to 10 dollars per person, per day.

I guess the key is not getting caught. :D

[Daniel Madar]

The point was, again, that in order to run a school successfully, you need to do the gruntwork. Suppose you start to teach in the park, and then the police show up, and tell you that you need a permit. Oops? No oops, you f'd up. But don't assume that you can't. Find out. And even when some one says no, see if you can push it.

Here's a completely unrelated example of how paying attention to details can have a major effect.

Up until 1985 Japanese law required that all japanese citizens who hold dual citizenship choose between their citizenships at the age of 20. In the case of the US, this does not qualify as a formal renunciation of citizenship. So, effectively, Japanese/US citizens can declare themselves Japanese citizens on their birthday, and still retain their US citizenship, because no one asks or cares about the Japanese requirement. If you are dumb and notify the US Government that you formally renounce your citizenship, then it's bad on you.

The business world is like this too.

[GeneChing]

While searching for something completely different, I stumbled over this old thread. Guess I gotta eat my words on this one, especially as we're going into our 8th Tiger Claw Elite KungFuMagazine.com Championship (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/info/tournament/index.php). :o