Questions about Mantis...

[Apprentice]

Hi, i just have a few(well maybe a little more than a few) questions to ask about Mantis...i am considering taking it or something else, but i want to get an idea of what it's like, can you help? Feel free to only answer a few questions, hopefully someone else will answer the rest, jes answer what you know and feel like...if it has a star, i REALLY wanna know about that one especially...

1) What's their stances like? (low, everchanging, no stance work)
2)* What's their footwork like?
3)* Attack points?/Strategies (ie. centerline, angles)
4) Attack distances? (far, close, trapping, ground)
5)* Starting attacks? (jab, finger strike, kick, whatever is most common)
6) How long does it take before you are taught how to "Flow" with your techniques?
7)* Do you spar? When did you start? How often do you?
8)* Does it take long before you can see how and why it works?
9)* What do you do in class, curriculum wise, such as pushups, forms, running, anything, and in what order?

I know i ask alota questions, just tryin to decide what i should take...

[Mantis9]

All your questions are good, but I'm afraid some of them are specific to the Mantis family and the sifu your looking at training under. However, there are some general answers I could give you about the style/system.

Mantis footwork is base on the monkey. It is dynamic, in the sense that you rarely perform striking, throwing, etc., from a fixed position; you are constantly moving from high to low and from side to side with monkey footwork.

As for attacks: Everything in Northern Mantis is base upon Wong Long's 12 character principles. All attacks and defensive techniques are based on them.

Sorry ran out of time. Got to go.

[Apprentice]

such as, what does your class do, it's a question that i'd just like to know what SEVERAL mantis schools do, that would probably give me a majority idea, and even if it dont, i can still use it to maybe add to mine, thanx for the footwork answer, sounds interesting....

[EARTH DRAGON]

well you do a lot of questions but I will answer some.
As for stances in 8 step we have 8 horse, bow, tiger head,mantis, x-leg, 50/50 , falling and sigle leg. all 8 have applications.

8 step footwork is based on ba gua, more persice and more efficient then monkey.

attacking points are centerline, gates and doors.

someone else asked the questions how long before it works , and it is impossible to answer that . It depends on you not the style.

I would suggest trying a class if you like it then join. I have been doing mantis for 11 years and I love it, comming from a goju ryu backround i find it to be everything I was missing.

[Mantis9]

Hello again,

I agree with EARTH DRAGON's statement, of course, with exception to footwork. Its an exceptional quality to believe in your system/style's methods and techniques when so many run to the newest "real" techniques at the drop of the Kwan Dao.

To answer you more specifically, I use my sifu's and mantis brother's/sister's teaching methods. I apoligize if I put you off with my first answers; it was unintentional.

Mantis is a very practical in my opinion. Application to our forms is made very apparent. Our sifu has exclaimed on several occasion that there is a traditional interpretation to a forms application, but a techinque is not limited to just that interpretation. In progressively advancing forms, you will begin to notice techinques and themes that reoccur, but are reinvented so to speak. So, you can immediately see how Mantis operates, but there is amazing depth to one technique or principle.

I am sure this is the case for all Mantis, regardless of lineage or family.

My sifu is a major proponent of conditioning; from traditional methods like three star blocking (a arm toughing drill) and iron palm training ( at the proper time, of course ) to sport conditioning methods like jump rope, push up, etc.

Sparring is very intrical to conditioning. Although, we don't put out a new student to spar, there are drills that build a student to the piont. That is part is particularly up to the student.

Bye, for now.

[SaMantis]

Hi Apprentice,

Can't answer all your questions; I'll leave most to those with more experience. But I can give some general info about my school:

6) You learn to "flow" with practice ... most new students are pretty stiff, but that's just because the movements are unfamiliar. Practicing your forms every day without forcing speed or power is the key. It's taken me several months but I'm finally starting to feel relaxed and strong when doing the first forms I learned. It just takes time.

7) I spar when I can ... the sparring class is separate from daily classes and I have to sneak out of work to go. We have to pass our first test before we're allowed to spar, and then the first couple of sessions are spent learning basic moves.

8) As soon as I started learning forms -- heck, as soon as I started learning basic stances -- the sifu showed the application. Sometimes it's impossible to do a technique correctly if you don't know how, why and when it works.

9) Conditioning is a big deal at my school, we usually start class with a warm-up (short run, jumping jacks) followed by 5-10 minutes of buddha breathing exercise (horse stance) and some stretches. Not all schools are the same as far as warming up (my friend in GA just starts working forms/sparring) but from what I've seen conditioning is a big part at all CMA schools.

Hope I got everything right ... peace and keep training

:)
Sam

[EARTH DRAGON]

just a blurb from our website but check it out

To uphold his responsibility as Grandmaster of the style, Chiang Hua Long could never be short sighted. The very energetic jumping style of the monkey footwork was very effective but it required a great deal of energy. Chiang Hua Long realized that if he were to live up to his obligations he would have to maintain his fighting abilities well into his old age. He would have to create a new system of footwork that would use energy efficiently but also maintain the MantisÕs devastating effectiveness. Changing the Mantis system was not to be taken lightly, but as Grandmaster he was responsible for strengthening any weaknesses.

Being well respected by the masters of the martial arts throughout China, Chiang Hua Long was in an advantageous position. Traveling throughout China, Chiang Hua Long met with masters of many styles. To have such a man as Chiang Hua Long ask about their techniques was a great honor. The masters of martial art's most effective systems openly shared their techniques and secrets with him. Chiang Hua Long studied the footwork of many styles such as Bagua and Tom Pei. He spent a great deal of time studying and experimenting with each movement. Having an incredible amount of experience applying his skills, Chiang Hua Long knew what would be an improvement and what would simply be change. Very carefully he considered each technique until, after ten years, he had narrowed down the most effective to eight short and eight long steps. Chiang Hua Long had taken one of the very most effective fighting systems in the world and was able to improve it. The Eight Step Praying Mantis system had been born.

this in my opinon would make hopping and jumping footwork less effeicent and angular footwork of bagua more effecinet thus more effecient means better.

[nobody]

hey ed, like the pic, can i use it too??:D

[EARTH DRAGON]

Ah yes grasshopper but where would you find it?

[nobody]

i would save the pic as a file on my CPU, then i would load it to webspace i already have and use that.

[EARTH DRAGON]

you are chris my student right? then just email me and i will give you the image

[Tainan Mantis]

Apprentice,
My favorite part of PM is learning how to flow. That is where we spend most of our time in practice.

The students start the first flow drill on the first class. If they are experienced then the 2nd class gets the second drill. If they are unable to quickly grasp punching dynamics, they can still do the drill but at other points in the class they will drill solo exercises that help in the paired fighting.

After 2 drills are down pat, they learn how to switch from one to the other. When going fast a mistake will mean getting hit so it is like a type of sparring.

Then they learn the stepping forward, the kick and the takedown drills. Each time a new drill is added to their group of flow drills it comes one step closer to free fighting. Which means that a slight mistake has a greater chance of causing unfortunate consequences.

One difference i've noticed between my school and some others is this;
The way I do it, an advanced student can only use the techniques a beginner knows.
Some schools are the opposite; An advanced student can do anything he knows on a beginner.
After learning both ways I think the way I do it causes every one to improve faster and get a deeper understanding of the subtleties of each technique.

[EARTH DRAGON]

We do a simular thing called 3 and 5 way blocking. students pair up and then throw his middle and low punces while their opponent blocks hih middle and low. I make them do it with thier eyes closed, alternating between punching and blocking and then more advanced does it with 5 way blocking. It does help to have rythm for flowing excersises but a lot of times my students get to much into it and then you dont have block the punch becuse they only have to time it. this I try to break them of right away, simply becuse noone punches like that.

[nobody]

yes i am and no need, i already made a copy. see:D

[Apprentice]

so you start flowin the first day huh? It would seem that you'd have to learn how your hands should be in the end position(and throughout the movement) before you practice flowing with it...just my 2cents

More replies are still welcome

[Tainan Mantis]

Apprentice,
I also thought that there were a lot of details you must learn before starting any 2 man simple flow drills. But Then I have seen that some other schools start their drills also on the first day.
So I just tried it.

Some students learn slow and stay at the first few drills for a very long time. Other studnts who have experience or unique talent are allowed to progress as fast as possible.

Earth Dragon,
What did you say happens when your students get too into it?

[nobody]

what ends up happening, is we dont learn to block on the fly but, "you punched to slow so i blocked to early on that last one"..
-im one of ED's students:D

[EARTH DRAGON]

It seems they fall into a rythm, like 1-2-3.. 1-2-3 block 2 -3 so I guess this is Ok for training and practice , but it hinders a
real fighting scenerio. but as they say is you throw 10,00 punches or blocks 10,00 times you should be ready for just one, that is the differnce from being hit.

I do enjoy teaching them to work with a partner, it seems to give them a beeter feel for what they have learned and helps them understand what they need to improve on....

[nobody]

its just so interesting how i registered in 1970, i dont recall being alive then.:confused: