Questions about Hung Gar, considering taking it...

[Apprentice]

Hi, i just have a few(well maybe a little more than a few) questions to ask about Hung Gar...i am considering taking it or something else, but i want to get an idea of what it's like, can you help? Feel free to only answer a few questions, hopefully someone else will answer the rest, jes answer what you know and feel like...if it has a star, i REALLY wanna know about that one especially...

1) What's their stances like? (low, everchanging, no stance work)
2)* What's their footwork like?
3)* Attack points?/Strategies (ie. centerline, angles)
4) Attack distances? (far, close, trapping, ground)
5)* Starting attacks? (jab, finger strike, kick, whatever is most common)
6) How long does it take before you are taught how to "Flow" with your techniques?
7)* Do you spar? When did you start? How often do you?
8)* Does it take long before you can see how and why it works?
9)* What do you do in class, curriculum wise, such as pushups, forms, running, anything, and in what order?

I know i ask alota questions, just tryin to decide what i should take...

[jon]

Apprentice. You really need to simply find an instructor this is not really helping, as is obvious from the number and more particualy the types of questions your asking.
Ill do my best for you anyway. As i told you last time this is my training and how ive been taught dont take it as gospell...
1) What's their stances like? (low, everchanging, no stance work)
- Stances are usualy low though can be adapted, stabiltiy is the main factor. Yes we certainly will change stance when required:/
2)* What's their footwork like?
-Footwork involves angle of attack and how to position for best power generation.
3)* Attack points?/Strategies (ie. centerline, angles)
- Do as much damage as possible in the shortest space of time... Seriously we attack anything, though pressure points are the more advanced targets. We use both centreline and angle theory. Centreline is about delivery of force and angle is about positioning for defence and maximum damage.
4) Attack distances? (far, close, trapping, ground)
- I told you this once before i hope your reading these replys. ANY although inclose is preferable for many techniques there all adaptable. System not style. We dont limit ourselfs to one distance that would be futile.
5)* Starting attacks? (jab, finger strike, kick, whatever is most common)
-Totaly up to the practioner. Im a tiger man at the moment so my leading attacks are often claws aimed at my opponents limbs. My sifu often uses plain fists. Again commiting yourself to anything is a crappy idea...
6) How long does it take before you are taught how to "Flow" with your techniques?
-When you know several and can easily display them with power speed and accuracy, then you might start stringing them together.
Any movements can be put into a combo, Hung can make unlimited combinations.
7)* Do you spar? When did you start? How often do you?
-Depends on the school, we do but only at higher levels and its pretty controlled. For eg my instructor can punch harder than i can block in a real fight he would litteraly go strait though my blocks. This deosnt mean i cant block its just becouse his 'ging' is much stronger than mine.
8)* Does it take long before you can see how and why it works?
-Yet again totaly dependent on the student. I picked up a lot of the theorys and ideals pretty quickly becouse i had a good background. Some obviously take much longer. Some things are easyer for some people than others. I find tiger power much easyer to understand than say leopard.
9)* What do you do in class, curriculum wise, such as pushups, forms, running, anything, and in what order?
-This is going to depend a lot on the actualy class YOU take... In mine we do qi gong, followed by stretching and warm ups. Then into bridgework[strength building] and stances. We then do some conditioning and practical application. If your a junior you then go home if your a senior you stay around for forms and advanced qigung practice.
As i said to you once before one thing about Hung...
The training is hard as rocks! One of the main reasons im there is becouse normaly im not the most self diciplined persons and by forcing myself though this I know i can build my charactor.
Sometimes you have to eat bitter to taste sweet.

[Apprentice]

and yes, i am reading your replies, but these questions are sort of to get an idea of what it's like in SEVERAL schools, thats why i asked what is it like in YOUR school...i know curriculum is different from school to school, i just wanted to know what it's like in several of them, so plz keep the replies coming everyone...

You see, i did not know Hung Gar practiced Qigong(sp?)

I sort of messed up on my "Attack Distances?" question, i meant to ask what is the MOST COMMON, or most stressed, this case being in close, and for a good reason(that you explained)...My intrest in this art has increased already, the "You must sometimes taste bitter to taste sweet" phrase was nice...hard training? hmmm, i think i may be looking for that, for I too, am not very disciplined, and i would like to build character..thanx for your reply again

[jon]

Always happy to tell anyone about Hung Ga:D
There is also a site www.hungkyun.net with a forum called "southern fist" which is an excerlent sorce for some very high level hung ga practioners. My advice would be ask around there a bit, they are know a LOT.
Its a great system and has much going for it.
Yes qi gung is a big part of Hung Ga and should imho be a big part in all true kung fu systems. Its where the power comes from.
Doing Kung Fu without qi gung is like doing weightlifting without the strength training its just not going to be feasible. Some arts are different but most of the higher level systems deal a lot in qi gung.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

I'm sure most schools and masters will allow you to have a free trial period of training with them. Why dont you take advantage of this, and see which style and school you feel comfortable with. You can also base your judgements on the people you train with, their personalities, abilities, etc. It will reflect the master's personality and ability as well.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Training in Hung Gar is different with every master and school.

My experience is as follows:
1 Stances are low for training. For fighting, you are in a more relaxed and mobile stance.
2 Footwork varies from linear, to triangular, to circular, etc.
3 Centerline idea is used, and so are the 5 animals and 5 elements proceses. Strong forearms and shins are essential, letting you make contact with your opponent, preventing damage to yourself, and hopefully damaging your opponent.
4 All fighting ranges are used, long, medium, and short range. Fight in the range that you feel comfortable in.
5 Starting attacks are up to individual preference. Some prefer to wait for an attack, then defend and attack, or just go straight to counter attack.
6 We are taught to flow from the beginning, but it takes a student time to be able to move smoothly and be aware of his body.
7 Drills and step sparring are essential. You would need to be accurate with your techniques (ie: punching and kicking the air and targets), before you start working with a partner. We spar as often as we feel like it (ie: going over certain techniques, reviewing/improving movements, etc).
8 My master has been open with his teaching, encouraging us to ask questions, experiment with techniques, and figure things out on our own. How fast you see how and why it works depends on your coordination and your learning ability.
9 Most of the conditioning (stretching, stances, calisthetics) can be done on your own. Save class time for learning and improvement. This also depends on how your master teaches you; some spend 90% of the time on warm up and conditioning, and minimal time on actual teaching.

Hung gar has been beneficial for me, mostly because I have had a competent master. I would recommend almost any style of Chinese kung fu, so long as you find a master and school that you are comfortable with.

Keep in mind, with kung fu, the majority of time is spent on developing power and qi, and very little time is spent learning. It may take you a few minutes to understand how to throw a punch or a kick, but maybe a year to actually do it properly. To achieve killing power, it may take you 3 years of training internal power.

If you are serious about martial arts, train a minimum if 2 hours a day, everyday. If you just want a fun hobby and almost no skill, train only when you go to class (probably a few times a week).

[charliec]

I'm probably going to be restating a lot of things which have been said already, but just to show cohesion/difference in hung gar i'll answer 'em all anyway.

1) The stances are as low and strong as possible in forms and higher and faster in application.

2) The footwork is often straightforward, ma bu to gong bu changes and the like.

3) Hung Gar is a very straightforward art, many of the attacks are just forward into the center, although there's a lot of deviation. Angled attacks are very common as well. My school complements our southern forms with a northern form here and there which tends to shake stuff up. At the advanced level there are a lot more twisting elusive attacks, this is probably due to the strong influence of Shaolin on early Hung Gar forms.

4) Attacking is generally very close, certainly much closer than most northern forms.

5) Depends on the style..

6) That's just something that comes with time, you learn the moves and then they feel right and flow together.

7) Sparring is generally done at an intermediate level. My school does both full contact and point sparring with some san shou.

8) It depends on the person, when I'm at home I go every day for at least two hours and complement it with study on my own. If you think about the moves and mess around with movement and doing things differently you tend to understand why you do some things one way. I've noticed a lot of moves in Hung Gar can be changed slightly and apply to totally different situations, there's a lot of thought that can go into forms...

9) Our class is sort of... easy really, but maybe I'm comparing it with my other school (Shi Guolin's Shaolin school). We begin with basic blocking exercises, then punching, then combos, then kicking. Then we go through all the forms in order and those who don't know a certain form drop out of the group to practice on their own until an instructor teaches them something. The class ends with us doing the forms again. We complement the Hung Gar with Wu style Tai Chi and the advanced students do Qigong.

[diego]

At the advanced level there are a lot more twisting elusive attacks, this is probably due to the strong influence of Shaolin on early Hung Gar forms.

HOW SO...COULD YOU GIVE EXAMPLE

[illusionfist]

When referring to low stances, dont think that they are drastically low, like wushu low. When we refer to low, in regards to Hung Gar, we are usually speaking of strong, sturdy stances. Your thighs are parallel but your knees are in good position. We dont do knee buster stances, haha.

Peace :D

[illusionfist]

D a m n , i didn't know we had the internet back in 1970!!

[denali]

No knee buster stances.
Just knee buster kicks.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

>D a m n , i didn't know we had the internet back in 1970!!

Yeah, didn't you know, Al Gore invented it, hahaha.

Good to see some old faces on here =)

[illusionfist]

HAHA, now its 1969. Talk about rewriting history, hehe. :eek:

[charliec]

Originally posted by diego
At the advanced level there are a lot more twisting elusive attacks, this is probably due to the strong influence of Shaolin on early Hung Gar forms.

HOW SO...COULD YOU GIVE EXAMPLE


Well, the butterfly palm moves in Lao Gar and a lot of the more advanced Crane moves. Crane is very elusive, twisting seems to be used primarily to trap and grapple (the set up for butterfly palm can be used to grab someone's arm)

[denali]

Well, the "advanced" crane movements are more present in the Fu Hok form, which is fairly recent. The twisting motions aren't necessarily there because of the influence of southern shaolin. Hung Gar *is* southern shaolin.
Also, twisting motions are not only there for trapping and grappling, or evading, but are very important for power generation in all movements.

[charliec]

Originally posted by denali
The twisting motions aren't necessarily there because of the influence of southern shaolin. Hung Gar *is* southern shaolin.

Well I'd disagree there. The Tiger influence on Hung Gar came from Shaolin and a few forms (Fuk Fu most notably) came as well, but the majority of Hung Gar was developed away from 'Shaolin' and without the influence of monk Chi Shin. In fact, all the Crane techniques were added after Hung Hei Goon met his first wife. I'll grant you Fong Wing Chun learned her Crane style from Shaolin Nun Ng Mui, but that's very sketchy. I've found that most main line Hung Gar schools trace themselves to Fukien Shaolin but they don't say they *are* Shaolin. They're not. And don't even get me started on whether or not Fukien Shaolin Si was even 'Shaolin.' ;D


Also, twisting motions are not only there for trapping and grappling, or evading, but are very important for power generation in all movements.

Every single style of kung fu uses twisting motions for power generation in all movements so that wasn't worth noting. The notably twisting motions in hung gar which stand out are used to evasion and trapping, all the waste twisting and 'sholder shooting' is used for power generation, but so what? that's self evident.

[denali]

If you look closely, all 5 animals are present in the Gung gie form. Of course hung gar has developed, and some things have been added, but the foundation is the same. Hung gar is southern shaolin. Shaolin is like hung gar's daddy. Would be interesting if you disagree with that.

Interesting to note that some elder hung gar masters simply refer to their art as southern shaolin.


"Every single style of kung fu uses twisting motions for power generation in all movements so that wasn't worth noting. "


Well, I think it's worth noting.

[charliec]

Originally posted by denali
If you look closely, all 5 animals are present in the Gung gie form. Of course hung gar has developed, and some things have been added, but the foundation is the same. Hung gar is southern shaolin. Shaolin is like hung gar's daddy. Would be interesting if you disagree with that.

I'm not saying Hung Gar isn't very very strongly based in certain aspects of traditional Shaolin kung fu, that would be just, stupid. I'm saying that Hung Gar is *not* Shaolin kung fu. They're similar in some respects but Hung Gar isn't Buddhist and without the Buddhist aspects of Shaolin kung fu, it's just Shaolin based kung fu. "Shaolin kungfu and Zen are inseparable." - Shi Guolin.

Also, at the time Hung Gar was formed there was pretty much no difference between Northern and Southern Shaolin Kung Fu. It's only in later years that the Southern Shaolin supposedly specialized and changed.

I'm also not saying Fuk Fu or Gung Ji are entirely Tiger, but they are related (which is probably what "Fuk Fu" is refering to, unless you believe it's named after Pindola Luohan, which I don't.)

[denali]

As far as I know, the tiger partly refers to the practitioner.

I have a question: What makes shaolin buddhist and hung gar not buddhist?

I am fairly new to kung fu.. not looking to argue, but to talk and learn. Just so you don't get the wrong impression.

[charliec]

It's cool, I tend to get hyper in discussions and come off sounding like i'm being harsh or angry. Anyway, it's more syntax than anything. Shaolin kung fu is essentially taught and studied as meditation. When you're practicing a form your concentration is on only one aspect, you're *just* trying to finish the form and can't think about anything else or you'll mess up. That makes it an 'active meditation.' That's also why Shaolin is so devistating during sparing. There are no distractions, you're *just* concentrated on your opponant's movements, your mind doesn't get in the way and make you hesitate.

Plus Shaolin is normally studied in a Buddhist context, I know the two monks in New York both teach in their temples. I'm not sure about those in Texas but It's likely they pay at least some attention to the religious. It's not even known if Hung Hei Goon was a monk or just a lay disciple (as many at the time were).

Also, I'm not in *annnny way* saying Hung Gar is worse. I practice both styles and can't wait to get back home for christmas break and see my Hung Gar sifu again.


Originally posted by denali
As far as I know, the tiger partly refers to the practitioner.

I have a question: What makes shaolin buddhist and hung gar not buddhist?

I am fairly new to kung fu.. not looking to argue, but to talk and learn. Just so you don't get the wrong impression.