Whats the difference between how a Bodybuilder weight trains............

[Leonidas]

and how a Powerlifter weight trains. I know one gains strength and the other just looks "pretty" for competition. What's the difference in reps, pounds lifted, nutrition, steroid use(if any) etc.......
Thats one of my favorite Olympic events, but it always struck me as funny that some Powerlifters look pretty out of shape and some even look fat and they could lift 1000 plus pounds. Yet Bodybuilders are cut to a "T" but are not considered as strong?

[Mr. Nemo]

If you wanna talk about "lifting weights", there's generally four types of people who lift weights:

Bodybuilders: Train to have big, well-defined muscles. Generally use lower weights with higher repetitions. Also generally use more isolation exercises - that is, lifts that are designed to isolate a single muscle. Their muscles are so well defined because they work to have a very low percentage of body fat by competition time. The top bodybuilders (the guys you see on the front of muscle magazines) almost certainly use steroids. Amatuer bodybuilders may or may not.

Strength trainers: Any kind of athelete (football, baseball, whatever) who uses weights to improve their performance. Their routines vary greatly according to what attributes they're trying to develop. Some use steroids, some don't.

Powerlifters: People who competitively lift the bench press, the squat, and the deadlift. Train to bench, deadlift and squat as much weight as possible. Generally use higher weights with lower number of repetitions. Their muscles are generally not as big as those of bodybuilders, but stronger. Powerlifting will probably give you more "functional" strength than bodybuilding. Some use steroids, some don't.

Weightlifters: People who train the olympic lifts (the clean and jerk and the snatch). Train to clean and jerk and snatch as much weight as possible. It's been an olympic sport for a long time, so we have a great deal of trial and error to draw on for effective training. The muscles of weightlifters are not as big as bodybuilders, but much stronger, more functional, and more flexible. National weightlifting has an extremely rigorous drug testing policy, but some drug use probably gets through at the highest levels, like it does in most sports.

Olympic lifters in the unlimited weight class look fat because once you reach a certain stage, it's very difficult to add more muscle without adding some fat too. But underneath that fat is a lot of very strong muscle. Bodybuilders muscles are more defined because they have less fat.

However, if you look at olympic weightlifters in the lower weight classes, who can't afford to have a bunch of extra fat, they look very athletic.

[Apprentice]

Power lifters train with Higher weight at FEWER reps, u said higher...usual routine is like High weight, at 8 reps, as opposed to 12-maybe 16 reps...some even do high weight to faliure for only 1 set, that works too

[Mr. Nemo]

My bad. The incorrect part has now been edited.

[Leonidas]

Thanks for the informative reply Nemo. Anyone got anything else to add. I also heard Olympics weightlifters can jump a hell of alot higher than regular people of the same weight, as good as high jumpers. :cool: (looks like Jet Li's glasses in OUATIC doesn't it, or is it just me.)

[Merryprankster]

The nature of olympic weightlifting requires extreme explosiveness and flexibility.

From a biomechanical standpoint, strength plus reaction time= power.

Olympic level weightlifters, and their throwing counterparts in the Track and Field world are the MOST powerful people in the world.

They have the ability to exert a tremendous amount of force, in a very small space of time. They have the fastest 5 and 10 meter sprint times in the world. Olympic weightlifters are known for their vertical leap. Cheryl Heyworth is a 18 year old, 300 lb woman who was the USA's superheavyweight olympic lifter in the last olympics. She has a reported vertical leap of 38 inches.

These rather astonishing results stem from their ability to go from zero to all out effort extremely quickly. Think about moving a several hundred pound load directly above your head all in one movement--it's impossible to do without an extremely explosive start.

It is true that they are genetically predisposed to this...almost 90% of the muscle in olympic caliber lifters is fast-twitch, however, the explosive movements of the snatch and clean and jerk obviously further train their inherent abilities. These same movements help the rest of us too!

If you want to become faster and stronger, train with movements similar to olympic weightlifters/throwers. You will rarely see them doing isolation movements. They are, quite frankly, a complete waste of time from an athletic perspective, unless being performed to rehab an injured body part.

If you are interested strictly in becoming stronger, train powerlifting style. "Powerlifting," is a misnomer. It's really "strength lifting." You do not train speed while powerlifting, nearly to the extent of the olympic lifts. The movements are not nearly as explosive as olympic weightlifting. They simply don't require speed--what matters is whether or not the weight goes up. Powerlifters are frequently STRONGER than olympic weightlifters... they can lift a greater maximal load. However, they are generally not nearly as quick. Ironside gym has made some excellent inroads in including truely explosive type training in their powerlifters routines however, and their lifts have gone up quite a bit.

For the record, the extremes of weight associated with superheavyweights is not just about can't put on that much muscle without putting on fat. There is a biomechanical advantage in the form of joint stability that accompanies greater girth. At the lighter weights, this advantage is negligible: It's more important to be as strong as possible at your weight, so you cut the fat. At Super heavy though, the pounds don't matter, so it is best to pack on as much weight as you can as long as it doesn't inhibit your athletic performance.

I agree with the post about football, baseball etc--there will be some sport specific exercises; however, the core of the program is likely to be olympic and power lifting with plyometrics added into the routine.

Agree with all posts about body building. Unless you are worrying about looking good at the beach, not so hot for improving athletic performance.

The bottom line is that if you are looking for optimum athletic returns on your time in the gym, try to design a routine that has a core of olympic/power lifting and some plyos. Ensure plenty of rest. You won't be in the gym long, but you'll feel like a freight train hit you when it's over.

[Robinf]

Also, even in bodybuilding, there is only so much weight/muscle you can gain, and then you lose definition. Arnold Schwarzenegger (and many other top bodybuilders) said that if you go over 260 (I believe) you really begin to lose definition. That's when you become that freakish mass of blob that they have now competing. I think, though, that the trend in bodybuilding, is going to go back to the well formed symetry of Schwarzenegger's day.

Robin

[IronFist]

Robinf said:

Also, even in bodybuilding, there is only so much weight/muscle you can gain, and then you lose definition.

Nope. Muscle to bodyfat is a proportion. As long as the proportion doesn't change, you won't lose definition. That's why it's called bodyfat percentage.

Arnold Schwarzenegger (and many other top bodybuilders) said that if you go over 260 (I believe) you really begin to lose definition.

Can I have a link or a refrence to where you saw this?

That's when you become that freakish mass of blob that they have now competing.

No. The freakish masses you see on stage now are because some pro BB's are starting to use Synthol (aka: pump 'n pose) which is an oil that is injected into a muscle, thus ripping apart the fibres and forcing it to expand. No strength is added through this. It's kind of like do-it-yourself breast implants only if for muscles and it's not a silicone sac. Anyway, the synthol is usually pretty obvious if someone has been using it, and it looks like crap, but with the way pro BB is run recently, the hugest masses seem to be winning. Btw, synthol shows up under xrays or MRI's or something like that, you can see it, but they haven't started testing for it (yet).

I think, though, that the trend in bodybuilding, is going to go back to the well formed symetry of Schwarzenegger's day.


I don't think that's the current trend, but I agree that BB'ers looked better back in Arnold's day as well.


Guys, one thing that I hear more and more of now is that BB'ers aren't that strong... while they're not as strong as Powerlifters, pro BB'ers are most likely stronger than you or I will ever be. Ronnie Coleman (I think it's him) has been known to Deadlift 700 or 800 lbs. That's pretty strong, eh? Many can bench 400 or 450+.


Another reason pro powerlifters are fat: This about this... if you are squatting, if you have massive amounts of thigh fat and calf fat, you are physically prevented from going as low as a skinny person, also, you have a nice cushion of fat to rest on/bounce off of while lifting. Haha. Well, I don't know how much that would help, but I imagine it's something, right?


Here's something to consider. Ever watch the World's Strongest Man competitions? Those guys are huge (like BB size), very strong, and in fairly good shape. Compare that with a Pro BB'er, who would be winded if he bent over to tie his shoes. Yes, it's true, professional bodybuilders are perhaps the athletes with the worst health and conditioning of any sport. Most can't even walk across the stage without huffing and gasping for air. The only difference is the Worlds Strongest Man competitors have higher bodyfat levels, like a BB'er in the off season. I wonder if some of them dieted down how good their physiques would be?

Someone else said something that was wrong, but I can't find it, so maybe I'll look later.

Iron :)

[Leonidas]

I've heard that before. Why do they get so winded with all that muscle. What good is it if your as healthy as a fat *******. How do Powerlifters and Olympic weightlifters deal. Do they do cardiovascular excercises or is that a side effect of their training method. :confused:



This is alittle off topic, But how does the miltary strength train. I heard from a friend joining the NAVY, that they consider weightlifting unnatural. Maybe it's the bad rep from Pro Bodybuilders, i dont know but anybody here have any miltary training.

[JWTAYLOR]

Iron Fist, they aren't quite THAT bad. They were in the old school, but most modern bodybuilders also do some sort of cardio program, just to support their heart. But jogging a mile or two is pretty much a heart attack for most of them.

They are some of the most unhealthy athletes in the world. I always used to point out to my BB friend that eating a pound of ground beef for breakfast was not very healthy. He had a very good point: People don't pay you to look healthy, they pay you to look freakishly big.

JWT

[SevenStar]

"... I heard from a friend joining the NAVY, that they consider weightlifting unnatural."

My guess would be that he's referring to body movement. Have you ever known someone who lifts weights, and is strong as he11 in the gym, but when you put him on a football field, he hits like a girl? for things like that, your mass must be functional - "you have to know how to use it"

[IronFist]

Iron Fist, they aren't quite THAT bad. They were in the old school, but most modern bodybuilders also do some sort of cardio program, just to support their heart. But jogging a mile or two is pretty much a heart attack for most of them.


Actually I think it's the other way, buddy :) Old Schoolers, Arnold and company, were in much better cardio health than are the new BB'ers. Current BB'ers do as little cardio as they have to, after all, cardio burn calories which makes you smaller. There is a phrase is bodybuilding:

"Don't run if you can walk, don't walk if you can stand, don't stand if you can sit, don't sit if you can lay down, and if you can lay down, you might as well take a nap."

The purpose of such a statement is to burn as few calories as possible. Size is entirely dependent upon calorie expenditure... that's why long distance bikers are skinny as fùck, because they burn far too many calories to build any substantial body mass.

Anyway, to further illustrate my point, did you see Mr. Olympia Ronnie Coleman on Leno? After he walked over to the chair he was gasping for air.

Leonidas said:
Why do they get so winded with all that muscle. What good is it if your as healthy as a fat *******.

Well, for starters their heart has to pump all that blood through extra feet (I heard miles once) of veins. Extreme hypertrophy (muscular growth) requires a ton more oxygen than normal sized muscles. So, the heart is working overtime to pump all the blood, and the oxygen requirement is greater. Plus, they're carrying all that weight around.

I guess with Powerlifters (the fat ones), they may weigh as much but it's not muscle that requires blood and oxygen, it's fat. Most powerlifters have smaller muscles than BB'ers (although I've seen some huge, ripped ass powerlifters that could put some amateur BB'ers to shame).

Plus, Pro BB'ers are constantly eating. 7000 calories a day is taxing on your organs. You know how you feel sluggish after Thanksgiving dinner (or if you're going to say it's because of the chemical in turkey that makes you sleepy, consider how you feel after any big meal), try eating that much multiple times a day.

Want an example? Next time you make breakfast, look at what you eat and compare it with a 10 egg omlet, a chicken breast, and maybe some rice or juice or protein shake. Then once you shove all that down, you get to eat again every 3 hours.

Heh, BB'ers are known to throw up some times from over eating. Ewww.

So, why do people bodybuild? Because they enjoy it. There's a good feeling in being bigger than everyone else. Plus, many people enjoy the reaction they get when other people see them. Plus, working out is fun (although I know some BB'ers who hate the actual lifting part... kinda strange IMO). Not to mention it's something you can look in the mirror every day and see what you have accomplished.

Iron

[Apprentice]

What would be the best way to strenght train, and be "Mobile"...I rely on my quickness, i would not want to diminish that, i can blind somebody in 1 eye before they knew my hand left it's neutral position, i'd like to even IMPROVE my quickness, but improve my strength as well, (with a tad of endurance :) )...any suggestions?

[respectmankind]

thanks for clearing that up, i was going to ask that to. lucky for me, I just started doing some more athletic lifts, for about wto years i did very little and more isolations. luckily, i didn't get very big but gained a good deal of power, so i must of done something right.

[IronFist]

If you want to get big you have to eat big. Even perfect training, drugs, and supplementation won't do a thing if you're not eating enough. I know you said you weren't trying to gain size, I'm just putting this out here for the information. I would say 90% of people's bodybuilding efforts fail because of diet.

btw, most people can gain at like 3 or 4000 calories a day. Don't eat like a Pro unless you're on a Pro's drug schedule. And if you are going to increase what you eat, please do it slowly. Don't jump from 2000 to 4000 calories overnight or you'll be sick.

Also, you can add mass without getting slow, inflexible, or anything else that people say are bad. Look at Cung Le, he's pretty big, powerful, and fast.

If you guys have questions about anything, just post them here and someone or myself can help you out :)

Iron

[respectmankind]

thanks, actually, i did alot of speed training while doing the building. so that helped i think, and i do eat alot, lol, that is why i have teh gut.

[Leonidas]

So how exactly do Olympic weightlifters train. I really want to start training like that. How do they excercise their heart and lungs? Would Tai Chi help or hurt, or should you just do aerobics like running and swimming, would you be able to move properly in a fight.

[Merryprankster]

Leo,

The best way to learn the olympic lifts is to find somebody who knows them. A local high school football strength coach SHOULD know them, and a local JC or College strength coach will know them.

They can be quite dangerous without proper instruction, but they are NOT hard to do.

Nothing that you do is going have a bad effect on your weight training. Remember that the top guys are specifically training to lift more weight, so they have to pay very close attention and ensure that they don't harm their program. Long distance running of ANY sort, for example, wouldn't be good for them. However, the rest of us normal folk are using the olympic lifts to improve our athletic performance, not the other way round. Unless you are have an active long distance schedule, then I doubt you'll have any real problems.

If you are serious about olympic lifting and have not spent a lot of time lifting freeweights, you need to build up a base strength conditioning that centers around deadlifts, squats, cleans and push presses. Any personal trainer can show you these exercises... but if you hear "Squats are bad for your knees," or "deadlifts are bad for your back," RUN, do NOT WALK to the nearest exit and find somebody else.