How many of you actually believe that Rich mooney is legit

[Stacey]

If so, would you actually pay him money?

[Water Dragon]

Problem is, there actually are a few knowledgable people on this board (not that I'm one of them). It's hard to fool people when the legit are there to call you out.

[old jong]

I just don't believe in that kind of stuff.So....!:rolleyes:

[Nexus]

He's the real deal.

[joedoe]

Does it really matter?

The man has a point - until you meet him and train with him, you cannot judge his legitimacy properly. He may look like a fake, but if you are basing your judgements on video clips over the internet then there is limited evidence to hold either position. So his claims of legitimacy are just as valid as your claims that he is not (that is unless you have personally experienced his stuff and found it to be fake).

Even the articles on the Uechi Ryu website are not solid proof one way or another. Basically, a study can be produced to prove just about anything position you want. Statisitics and tests can be interpreted in so many different ways it almost makes the whole process meaningless.

Now I do not know if Mr Mooney is a fake or not, so I am neither supporting nor refuting his claims.

[Chang Style Novice]

Does your final sentence there mean that no reasonable adult ever has or ever would meet or train with you?

[Nexus]

No, it means that you would have to be beyond the capabilities of reason to train or spend any time in the presence of a Master such as Mr. Mooney.

[straight blast]

This forum is so full of funny people. Why some of them even said they thought it was real. You shouldn't do that. Rich Mooney might read it & think that he actually convinced someone. It's funny guys, but it's cruel to Rich. Not that I know the dude (but I have seen his "movies"-man they were funny, especially the bit where you can see the mirrors) but you're giving him false confidence in pursuing his dreams of worldwide QI domination. It's socially irresponsible :D :p :D

[old jong]

They are talking about it in the "Dark Side" :D
http://jiu-jitsu.net/board/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000402
http://www.uglypeople.com/uglycelebs/ugly-images/up-celebs-00025.jpg

[Stacey]

2 retards actually beleive him with all their heart. I have some beach front property to sell you. I promise to build you a dream house in the rocky mountains for only a 5,000 dollar downpayment, if you don't like it, I'll give it to you for free. Well by definition, half of all people are below average.

Yes there are amazing people that have trained for years and can do amazing things. People who have diligently trained since they were 6 years old under amazing masters. AND THEY CAN'T DO THIS. Why? Because they are real.



Well guess what? I have x-ray vision and adamantium claws that I developed through my secret chi kung that Buddah taught to me in a dream. The Lao Tse and Chang San Feng taught my Mystical alchemal yoga, and I can do lightning kicks, hundred palm slaps, shoryukens, yoga fire and yoga flame. I can also summon my inner strength to become electric.

[jimmy23]

"none of you know me
so none of you know.any reasonable adult should be of the opinion that they don't know; since they have never met me or trained with me"

wow, i never thought of it like that. So, when A hindu guru tells me he can levitate, but has never done it in a testable way(ie infront of debunkers) I should just accept it, even though it violates all the mechanical and chemical laws there are.?

Or, when a guy tells me that space aliens are sending him transmissions, and the only reason i cant hear is because Im not part Vulcan like him, i should believe it also?


Thats about what your saying Rich, and please dont try to lecture about the limitations of science as youve before. Science does have limits, but your past post on this matter show that you dont even understand basic scientific ideas, much less the epistemology of science , nor where science is strong or weak.

[Royal Dragon]

The way I see it, Mooney has solid lineage, including ties to mine. His history is a bit different, but close enough, at least where the Chao familiy is concerned.

My guess, setting the extreme claims aside, is that he has some sound Qi Gong exercises, and probually a good amount of skill in them. I'd have to "see" him first to confirm that of course. But as Far as i know the Chao Family Fist is a RARE art, and it is a small family. The fact that he actually knows an aspect of it in it's entirety makes me think he's at least got an education from quality teachers (the Chao family (for the most part) hisorically did'nt just teach anyone). This leads me to think he himself may have above average skill in his Qi Gong methods.

As for the "Empty Force" Skills, I don't know about that, it sounds kind of "out there" to me. BUT, when I met with him (eventually) to explore his Chao Family skills, I'l ask to see his other stuff as well.

RD

[Stacey]

fair enough, but is their method so good that they don't pay attention to allignment?

How many of you notice that once you straited out your three locks, start to unlock, and the chi starts flowing, as your chi starts flowing, it straitens you out. This is what the hsing i, Tai chi and Ba gua classics all refer to, even aikido, lengthening of the spine, rounded shoulders, tucked in tailbone, a light/heaviness in walking.

I saw mooney waddling around in his clip, I see him doing what appears to be a **** poor rendition of tai chi push, that puts stress on his knee with a tense waist.

Now I might believe this guy, except that you don't run water through a kinked hose.

[brucelee2]

The solution to all this is simple. The forum elects somebody they all trust in Texas (JWT or Chang Style Novice) and send 'em over to meet Rich and see his stuff (Rich lives in Texas too). Then the KFO guy can come back and post a report. Of course, I guess everybody won't believe it but if its a 'solid' poster than most will.

[Chang Style Novice]

I'll decline that offer. I'm a novice, as I say. I don't know enough to judge anyone's form.

That said, I'm highly skeptical of any extraordinary claims, and Mr. Mooney has made some doozies.

Besides, I think he's way out North someplace (Lubbock? Waco?) and I don't have a car.

[Ryu]

Stacey,
(never thought I'd say this) please go back to your little hentai avatar!


LOL ;)

Ryu

[scotty1]

Leave it alone. You're just going round and round, chasing your tail. If you're not going to go to Texas and see for yourself, then just leave it. I'm fed up talking about him.

[tnwingtsun]

In one of his Videos he was doing a demo at a school in Knoxville TN.

I live just 1 1/2 hour drive south of Knoxville,he is welcome to come to my Sifu's school and demo his chi skills.

We are Bai Mei Shaolin,not Karate,I've felt and seen real chi demos.

I'd have to BE there to render an opinion so Rich is welcome to come,next time you're in TN Rich contact me.

[gfhegel21]

I'll be utterly convinced if he is able to do it in two main situations: (1) controlled circumstances, like the test mentioned at uechi-ryu.com; (2) an adversarial situation: i.e., an experienced fighter (preferable one with full-contact experience in MMA) attacks him full-contact, and he must defend himself using his chi skills.

[Water Dragon]

Do you accept challenges? I might be able to make it out to TN.

[scotty1]

I know you're here, I can see your name on the list.
I've been doing standing posture qigong (zhan zhuang) for two nights, both times i can do about five minutes, but when I stop it is not because my arms ache, it is because my back kind of cramps up. Is this normal, or could i be standing incorrectly? I'm approaching it like I approach horse stance, pelvis tilted forwards, (er, the opposite of sticking my arse out) and back straight. Is this just something that comes from not being used to standing in such a position for so long? please answer quickly as Its almost time for me to go home from work....;)

[scotty1]

Could it also be something to do with not stretching enough?

[Water Dragon]

Don't play that game with me. I consider a challenge a friendly matching of skills. If you WANT to take it to that level, I suggest you:

A.) Inquire with SevenStar about how my punch feels
B.) Do some basic research on Shuai Chiao's "Black Hand" methods

If you don't do challenges, that's cool. But don't try and intimidate me. I have more tricks in my bag than I like to talk about.

[Water Dragon]

FYI for the masses, my above post is a responce to Qi Masters post saying:

Depends on if you have a living will

That post has conveniently disappeared. 'Nuff said.

[Shaolindynasty]

What is the address to this site? I have never seen it but it sounds like to me that most on this board are a little dismissive of anything related to qi. I am not going to judge on Mooney but I would at least like to see the site.

RD- I disagree with you, the Chao family has produced some of the worlds greatest frauds. I think if people looked at that line closely they will see what I'm talking about. Being part of that line doesn't mean anything to me either way but I wouldn't use that to defend someone.

[scotty1]

Dude, I hope you haven't misinterpreted something that Rich said to me as being meant for you. Its just that I can't see any response from him re. your challenge. Just a thought.

Cheers Rich for the advice. While I deliberately have no opinion on the more "extravagant" claims of yours, I do think your advice on Qigong is worth listening to. So thanks. :)

[Water Dragon]

Scotty, he deleted it. It was right under yours. My advice to you: Let the hands hang down naturally, don't worry too much about clearing your mind (don't get upset if a thought pops in) And don't concentrate on your breathing, let it happen. You have to do 1 hour the first time to "wake it up" so to speak. After that, 10-15 minutes is fine.

Eventually, your hands will make the positions, give it time and you'll see what I mean. ;)

[scotty1]

All has now become clear. I was a bit confused there for a moment.:p

[Water Dragon]

Cool.
Oh yeah, if $hit starts to happen in the standing let it, if it wants to start, let it. This stuff move in cycles and they're kinds jerky in the beginning. They'll smooth out over the course of the first month.

[scotty1]

Are you talking about standing Qigong. like Zhan Zhuang?
I don't think I could hold that for an hour!!
Are you saying to just stand relaxed and meditate for an hour one night?(With the hands down) And after that one hour with the hands down, I can do 10 mins with the hands up every night?

You know, I've never had a real time conversation with someone on the net before, and I find it really weird that you're in America and I'm at work, and we're talking.

Modern magic!:D

[Water Dragon]

Beginning zhuan zhang IS just standing, at least for the first year or so. The Chinese are fond of throwing in traps that sound legit but actually screw you up. You're just gonna stand normally for an hour. You're not gonna hold a stance. You're also not gonn actively hold your arms in any position. If you can trust me, it'll be one hour of your time and you'll know beyond a doubt.

[scotty1]

Man, lemme get this right, you're saying to just stand relaxed for one hour and after that hour I will know its not been wasted?
And I can't put my hands out for a year? :(
How does standing still for one hour benefit you?
And after I've done it once for an hour, I can do it for 5mins a night, after 5 mins of Lifting the Sky or something?

[Water Dragon]

Yup, that's what I'm saying. Simple, direct, and easy to validate.

Of course, if your hands WANT to move, let them.

Realize that this is 1st level training. That s there's a lot more. I have the 2nd level but don't give that out. There's levels beyond that which I don't know. What this will do is:

1. get you started
2. let you understand what 'it' is so you wont be defrauded if you meet anyone who claims to know. Besides, anything above 1st level skills really do require a teacher.

Good Luck.

[gfhegel21]

Kudos to Mooney for finally figuring out that flies are more attracted to sugar than salt.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

. . . i'm just waiting for mooney to tell waterdragon to meet him at the park.

[MonkeySlap Too]

But what will RM want to do at the park?

WD - don't go to the men's room! It's a trick!

[Water Dragon]

LOL, like most frauds, he tries the old "we shall fight to the death" spiel.

Like most frauds, he backed out the minute I suggested that if he insisted, I also have some nasties in my tool box.

Like most fools, he was given enough rope to hang himself.

Never claim with your mouth, what your unwilling to back up with your fist.

[Kumkuat]

How in the world can you hold Zhan Zhuang position for an hour? That's seems way too impossible, for me anyway. I can barely hold it for 5 minutes

[Water Dragon]

My standing, is in fact standing. It's not stance holding. You stand shoulder width apart, you don't bend the legs. If they want to bend, they bend, if you want to straighten them, they straighten. You allow the body to be comfortable so that it can realign itself. We may be speaking of different methods.

[Water Dragon]

I just read my post and realized how silly it sounds. All I'm doing is standing there and stopping active thinking. That means I don't let myself think out scenarios, tell stories, etc. If a "passive" thought pops in, I just take an "Oh well" attitude and let it go away. Once your mind shuts up, you begin to be acutely aware of your body. This makes "things happen". The goal though, is for "things" to stop happening. The best advice for standing is "stand, and shut up" Hope that doesn't sound too **** esoteric.

[Royal Dragon]

Chris of Shaolin Dynasty said:

"RD- I disagree with you, the Chao family has produced some of the worlds greatest frauds"

Let me see if I understand this, your learning Choa Familiy Fist from me, and then turning around and saying the Family has produced some of the worlds greatest frauds?

Is this because I said I want to create a Tae Kwon do like Kung Fu system by teaching a watered down version of all those Kung Fu monk tapes out there? Thus giving Joe recreation something fun to do and paying the bills of my future Kwoon at the same time? AND at the same time allowing me to run a facility that hard core Kung Fu guys can further thier skills at? With out having to worry about where the money to finance the project is going to come from?

How do you expect me to found a hard core Kung Fu club with no way to keep Joe public interested enough to pay the bills for me? Or should I just let those types just go to the local Karate school? And not have the finances to support a real Kung Fu club?

Hey, they're going to go learn Mc Dojo stuff anyway, better to learn it from me and give ME thier money so I can at least support some real Kung Fu, than give it to Mr. "Gi" pants down the street who won't support any Kung Fu!!

Your comment is not going to motivate me to drive 2 hours down to see you, and teach you more Chao Family Fist, that's for sure.

For your information:

In the year 1954 Chao Jung Dao formed the "Gentile Art of the Taji Ruler Society" in Beijing, China. This is when the Chao Family released the Taji Ruler to the public. Prior to that it was a closely held family secret, just like the rest of the Nei Quan of the Chao family (eventually relesed by Chao, Yuh Feng a descendant of Chao, Jung Dao). Mostly, they taught the Tai Tzu Chang Chuan, Tai Tzu Nan Chuan and Six Stepp monkey Boxing divisions of the (Chao family) system to the public, NOT the Nei Quan system.

Anyone who knows the Ruler can trace thier lineage back to Chao Jung Dao unless they, or thier teacher learned it from another Chao Family Member directly. remember, Taji Ruler is only PART of the Chao Family's Nei Quan system. All the Taji stuff I taught you is ALSO part of the Chao Family Fist.

To my knowledge, Chao, Yuh Feng and possibly a Chao Family member currently living overseas are the only other family members to have taught the ruler.


Anyone interested in Taji Ruler can contact me or Mr. Mooney (or both) I'm at Royaldragon@netzero.net

RD

[Water Dragon]

Boo
WTF?!?!?! You're just contributing to the fraud. Who says you need a nice little school? I train exclusively in back yards, garages, basements, and parks. Hardcore Gong Fu isn't about bells and whistles.

It's about hardcore training. Blood, Sweat, and Tears. Drilling the $hit out of everything and then putting it together.

[neptunesfall]

at first i wan't going to reply to this thread, but...what the hell. everyone else is. peer pressure.
quite honestly, i could care less if rich mooney is a fraud or not.
i don't know him or his training, and i haven't even bothered to look at the
mpg's of his qi abilities.
focus on my own training is more important than bandying [sp?] words
and mudslinging.
if this is a real ability, i'm not going to bother training it. as mr. mooney admits, it's
only effective some of the time, and from what it seems by the posts here, under controlled circumstances.
i feel my time would be better spent learning good, solid kung fu.
not that i'm saying moony's kung fu is bad, i'm saying i don't know.
so. mr mooney, if you can do this, wonderful. if not, oh well. there are frauds everywhere.
i'll still be training no matter what.

[Sharky]

It kinda defies the laws of physics.

[straight blast]

SHOW ME what that thing is on Ryu's shoulder in his little avatar pic, or indeed what it's doing to his shoulder :p

[Frank Exchange]

>> heck we dont even know why bumblebees can fly, why aspirin works, and why MPD people can have diabetes with one alter
and not with another.. <<

Yet more scientific illiteracy. Scientists have known how bumblebees fly for years. Its even filtered down to such populist websites as the Straight Dope:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_045.html

Next we will be hearing how humans only use 10% of their brains... (Hint - they use all of it)

Aspirins effects, although not yet completely understood, are caused by inhibiting the production of prostoglandins, which effect the elasticity of blood vessels and control blood platelets in the body. There is no reason to think that we wont fully understand the process within a few years, as scientists continue to study the subject.

This is how science works, not by throwing up our hands and saying, "Oh, we dont understand it, so we never will", but by investigating, so we do understand it.

Thats why I truly urge you to scientifically investigate your claims in a controlled environment. That is the only way you will ever establish the legitimacy of what you do. If you really had these supernatural abilities, I would be the first in line to congratulate you, shortly followed by a Nobel prize bearer, waiting to award you for discovering forces hitherto unknown to science!

If you reply, as usual, that you are not interested in others opinions, then why do you post here? Why claim "honours" from MA magazines? Why publicise yourself at all?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

why doesn't mooney at least respond to water dragon?

he got called out.

and according to him he's not just some shmuck practicing kung fu as his life lets him, but he's the real deal. someone who has mastered the ability to focus the energy that keeps us alive. if someone has truly mastered this surely they could apply this to strikes. as long as someone didn't get lucky you would be the sh!t!

water dragon just claims to be a guy of hard core kung fu training who has had a decent amount of experience fighting. he didn't even say he was going to come down and whoop mooney . ... just that if he was the real deal he would be able to take out a well trained fighter . ... if not he would be exposed.

yet moony just makes idle threats that he deletes right after posting.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"Boo
WTF?!?!?! You're just contributing to the fraud. Who says you need a nice little school? I train exclusively in back yards, garages, basements, and parks. Hardcore Gong Fu isn't about bells and whistles. "

i dunno man . . . . i got a kid and i know that you got to pay the bills. if i ever had the chance i would do the same. fu ck it.

it's either that or try and work a full time job to pay the bills and try to train and teach on the side.

my sifu did that and it doesn't look like allot of fun. he works 40 hours a week, has a family, teachs, and has to find time to train.

if stupid people want to give you money to satisfy their ill suited intrest of the month why shouldn't you take it? fu ck em. try to get as many of them togeather as you can and charge them as much as it takes to train your real students and pay your bills. if you work hard at it make sure you got enough from the retards to live well.

[David Jamieson]

well, I for one admire the subject for his ability to keep doing what he is doing regardless of the naysayers and those who would contrinually attack someones beliefs for the sake of attacking them.

I also admire the remark made by Frank Exchange for it's pragmatic attitude and clear vision.

Many people do not understand the nature of oxygen and yet they continue to breath it!
Does anyone see the "sense" in -that- statement.

My point is, people are free to practice what they practice and so they should provided no harm comes from it.

People may also believe what they want to believe in, be it an ethereal and untouchable God or be it the cold hard light of day that meets them each morning.

A Kung fu person recognizes, or does their very best to recognize the wheat and chaff or given situations.
To wallow in ones own hubrous, to be jealous or to be the impish provocateur is not a trait of someone who can legitimately make a de-constructive or constructive critique of anything.

would you have a child of 6 comment on your decisions in you relationships? I don't think it would be necessary to hear the child out when you are certain by virtue of their young age, lack of knowledge and experience.

presume nothing, experience what you are able to, question without malice or ill intent and you will gain much more from your pursuits.

peace

[Royal Dragon]

You Said:

"would you have a child of 6 comment on your decisions in you relationships? I don't think it would be necessary to hear the child out when you are certain by virtue of their young age, lack of knowledge and experience."

HA!!! You know so little. When I was going through my divorce, my (now ex) wife went ape **** in an argument over who was gettin which records (she wanted a bunch of mine). The argument got violent, and extremely scarry for my 5 year old I'm sure. When it was all over, I was distrught and in tears (Yeah, i know I'm a wusss), She came into the bed room and climbed in bed with me and with a big smile and a huge hug she said:

"Don't worry Daddy, Mommy just went nutt'so, thats all, "I" still love you!!!"

I'll never forget that.....................................

[Royal Dragon]

If you think about it, If I have to work 40 hours a week (45 right now), by the time I come home I'm exaughsted and really don't have much energy, especially with the demanding job I have. Then, I have family responsibilitys to tend to, like making sure my daughter is actually doing her homework as opposed to just writing in any old answer to get it done so she can go to the gym, Dinner and you name it, it's like 6:00 and I'm starved. So, by the time I eat something it's 6:45 almost 7:00 now i have to drag myself to someone's back yard and train too? What about in the 2 degree winter (that often goes to 10 below here)? Then what?

The days I teach, i get out of work early, and start teaching by 6:00, I'm not done untill 8:30, and by the time I get done shmoosing with the students (VERY! important for student retention) it's like after 9:00. By then I'm too tired all I can do is go home shower and sleep. When do "I" train?

Doing things like this is how come we have so may FAT ass Black belts in this country with no skill. If I continue to do this, my students will rock, and I will forever suck. Then I will be labled a fraud and have a hard time keeping dedicated students because I will not be able to "Walk the Walk" as they say. Real kung Fu will be dead with me for sure.

BUT, if I set up a mainstream program for Joe recreation, I can teach enough classes to pay the bills on the Kwoon as well as my Mortage and utilitys at my house as well as that all important "Food" thing I'm forced to eat three to five times a day (I tried going with out that once and almost died!!! And that was only after 6 hours!! ;) )

Then, since I DON'T have to work anymore, i can train like 6 hours a day if I want, still be here when my daughter gets home from school to make sure she's doing her work, go in and teach all the Joe's and have GOOD Kung Fu myself. Then, as time goes on I can start a program for the Hard core guys in Tai Tzu, wile continuing to teaching the watered down "Monk video" stuff to pay the bills.

Seems to me that MORE real kung fu is accomplished this way, than by not doing it. Besides, Joe recreation does not have the drive or desire to do real Kung Fu anyway. He just wants a recreational activity, and if "I" don't teach him, he's going to go to Mr "Gi" pants down the street and help promote Karate/ Tae Kwon Do.

If Joe recreation is going to do this "Recreational MA" anyway, he might as well be be doing Reacrational "Kung Fu" with me, helping me promote Kung Fu!!!!! As opposed to doing and promoting Karate. To him it's all the same anyway, and he'll NEVER be good no matter which school he's at, but by having him at mine, it just helps me have good Kung Fu that otherwise would not exist. He is also helping me provide a platform to spread good Kung Fu to others. AND if Joe recreation ever develops an intrest in Traditional Kung Fu, he can always up grade to the Chao Fist program

Personally, I don't see the down side. I get a place to develop and spread good Kung Fu, AND a place for me to train like 6 hours a day. AND I get a way to scedual around my family needs (Wife wants to help run things so no family neglecting problem there) AND I don't have to work at a demanding "Chi force" draining job that's cutting my life span short. AND I can make more Money in the end doing it.

Another point, by teaching the forms off those "Monk" video's, I'm actually teaching authentic Shaolin Kung Fu, just in a simplified down way. If Joe receeation ever gets interested in the real thing he can always up grade to the traditional program and study Chao Fist (my specialty). The mechanics are similar to Shaolin anyway, so once he knows HOW to train traditionally and has the desire to do that, he can get his "Monk Video" stuff pretty darn good too!!!


Where's the down side???????????????????

In kung fu, talk is CHEAP

- CHALLENGES are final.

[Sharky]

don't mean to get anal, but we know EXACTLY why aspirin works, i did my final chemistry project for my major on it.

but that is irrelivant. I don't care if what you do works or not. More power to you.

[Reima Kostaja]

HuangKaiVun, I challenge you!

[old jong]

Could we compare that to a religious thing? Yes, they have the right to believe in whatever they want. They have the right to play jedi or Obiwan Kenobi among themselfes as much as the Jehowah witness have the right to knock at your door or Muslims have the right to exist in our society because we live in a free and tolerant world. They answer to a particular need from particular people.Many would like to master or control mysterious powers "the force" Many dreams to elevate themselves above the ordinary human condition. I think it is a very natural and "human" thing to look for something "more".
I just hope that a student of that style does not try the "down boy" dog thing on a real attacker on the street.It may not work like in school!

[jimmy23]

people certainly have the right to believe what they want, but when they make money claiming they can do things that defy the laws of physics, well, they need to get callled out. And, yes, science works great, hence all the nice toys we have and the nice medicines we enjoy. THe bumblebee flying comment is false, and trying to open up the possibility of qi abilities by discussing phenonena from quantum physics and cosmology , well, thats an old trick that con men use on the scientifically illiterate to make them more gullible.

"show me a quark...

show me the inside of a black hole in space.

show me curved space."

take some higher mathmatics and physics and maybe youllbe able to understand more about these phenomena than a brief perusal of the Tao of Physics gives. Maybe then youll actually learn about what the scientific method is and why its so useful, and why you must avoid any legitimate testing of your abilites.

[tnwingtsun]

Where and when??

Maybe you misunderstood me,I didn't expect you to "drive all over TN"

I never asked you to "prove to
you all what I already know myself"

Tullahoma is across Mount Eagel,not far,where at in Tullahoma?

I was giving you the chance to see some good Kung-Fu(maybe even learn something) and give a demo while you're in the area.

[Stacey]

this is kinda cool. Like in the ole days when fighters would travel to fight and gain experience from other kung fu fighters. Many of the old masters did this. May the best martial artsist win.

Originally posted by Reima Kostaja
HuangKaiVun, I challenge you!

Why?

[old jong]

I understand what Jimmy says.He's right in when he talks about selling something that goes against laws of physic and everything but,let's narrow the discussion on tai-chi alone and look on the kind of people who are in it, You have lots of elderly people (older than me actually for the most!)who do tai-chi for physical benefits mostly.The soft exercise is good for them.They would never think about combat.Most will see it as some kind of ancient chinese fountain of youth, some mystical exercice they can do in their local community center.Then ,there is the vast pool of "new-agers" who are looking for "illumination" or more exactly "to be told how to" by some guru who,for a price,will take them by the hand and show them "the" way! The fact that tai-chi is a martial art is only a minor thing to them.In fact, very few of them could use their art for self-defense.This leave us with the small minority who train in tai-chi for what it is really! These people realise that "chi" is more good structure and body alignment, Intention and concentration, relaxation and countless hours of intelligent practice than..."Use the force Luke"...we all have chi,life force, prana,whatever.A baby have chi,a dog have chi.It holds our molecules together! or galaxies who knows?...I'm sure you can are using chi even if you are in a hard style.You are using it in your job, in your sleep...So, why people are turning a martial art into a sect?.......$$$$$$$

[Reima Kostaja]

Huang:
Just because.
BTW, my challange is final. muhahahaha

OK Reima Kostaja. I accept.

If it's a drinking contest, you'll win!

[Braden]

Qimaster, et al - Re: Scientific Method

As others have alluded to; remember that the scientific method is simply a designated means of investigating any phenomenon, it is NOT (although often mistaken as) 'the description of absolute reality', and has never claimed to be (that branch of thought is called 'metaphysics' or 'ontology' depending on the subtleties). It is also not limited by 'what it allready knows' - if this were the case, it would never advance (and it clearly has).

Water Dragon - Re: Stance Holding.

Out of curiousity... In your stance holding practice, do you 'exercise' the 'postual requirements' - eg. spreading and sinking the scapulae, sinking the elbows, suspending the head, lifting the coccyx, opening the lower back, closing the teeth, lifting the tongue, gaze to infinity, listen to the rear, etc etc etc? It wasn't clear from what you described. Also, do you include any particular breathing and/or intention execises?

Just curious about your practice.

[jimmy23]

old jong that is an excellent post!

"These people realise that "chi" is more good structure and body alignment, Intention and concentration, relaxation and countless hours of intelligent practice"

now, that is a great point. I am an MMA stylist (whatever that means), and the people that Ive seen "use chi" said thing s very similar to this. Su Dong Chen told me this, he also told me that even in the orient there are a lot of "chi charlatans", this isnt unique to the USA

[Water Dragon]

Braden,
Believe it or not, all of those things happen by themselves. It's one of those things I don't talk about much, simply because it easily leads to fraud. For some reason, just standing and shutting up works.

For Mr. Mooney and others who care, I learned the method from Master Fong Ha of Yiquan, with a healthy dose of Glenn Morris's (yes, THAT Glenn Morris) ideas. If you read Mr Morris, he expects you to figure out the code ;)

[Water Dragon]

Braden,
Believe it or not, all of those things happen by themselves. It's one of those things I don't talk about much, simply because it easily leads to fraud. For some reason, just standing and shutting up works. And I keep my eyes closed.

For Mr. Mooney and others who care, I learned the method from Master Fong Ha of Yiquan, with a healthy dose of Glenn Morris's (yes, THAT Glenn Morris) ideas. If you read Mr Morris, he expects you to figure out the code ;)

Just remeber, this stuff can definately help your Gong Fu, but taken by itself, will do nothing for you. The basics are where it's at friends :D

[Braden]

WD - No, I believe it. My teacher stresses (and I tend to believe of my own accord) that the body pretty much knows it's way around itself better than 'you' do. 'Time and work' will get you there. So in other words, all else being equal - keep it simple.

My standing practice is a little bit more involved than yours, in terms of working upon the 'requirements.' But I certainly see where you're coming from.

[Shaolindynasty]

Rd- I wasn't talking abou that I was talking about these guys
www.dokungfu.com

[tnwingtsun]

"If so, would you actually pay him money?"



The answer for me is ...................NO


Maybe he is good,maybe he is not.


My first Sifu I saw and got my "roots" with and knew it was like Coke,"The Real Thing".


My Si-hing in a different system(but close to the other) told me "you don't have to pay me anything,if you don't like it or don't see the merit in the system then you owe me no money"

Having just the MA as your only source(another typo) of income is a hard road(not saying that is your only pot on the burner,that is your biz).


The main thing about the person in question is why????????


Does he only(as I've seen his web sites) demo at Karate schools and not CMA schools??

If he does demo at CMA schools that I've missed then my bad.



$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,is good but not everything.


Unless thats all that you have to support you and your loved ones.

Your passion for your system is comendible(sorry 4 da typo) and deserves credit wheather you are a phoney or not.

I'm sure you have something to offer that is good as with anyone.

So when I look westward from my deck at the sunset desending over the mountain range turning the sky a color
that touches the soul that words cannot describe I will wish you a happy New Year!!


Good luck in your learning first and your teaching second!