Sashes

[meltdawn]

Does your school use them?

If so, why?

If not, why not?

If so, do you like or not like?

If not, same thing?

And finally, if you do, what's your color system, and what's the criteria for advancement?

[Paul]

My current school doesn't use them. I prefer it this way. I think there is less ego involved. If you are good you don't need a sash to let everyone know it.

Previous schools that I have been to have used a sash ranking system. I didn't really like it much for a couple of reasons.
1. Who cares what color your sash is? If you are getting beat to a pulp on the street the color of your sash won't save you.
2. There are always those people who are more concerned about getting promoted than actually putting effort into what they are being taught.

[azwingchun]

I personally don't think the use of sashes is a bad thing. Though as an instructor, I feel that for the newer student it seems to be the sash that carries the importance and not what is actually learned to get the sash. It is in a way an "ego" thing for some. My Kung Fu brothers and I have discussed this issue many times- to use or not to use. We finally decided that it was something we never used for the purposes mentioned above but they would use them for the children classes. Since children seem to lose interest very easily and this would give them something to keep them motivated. This was more thier decision since I do not teach children and they do. It may also sound like a contradiction for us, since the reasons they use them for children is the same reasons we don't use them for adults. Though, young children really don't understand martial training anyway it will hopefully keep them interested until they do grasp the importance of martial training at a later age, and won't need the sashes for motivation. Let's get real most children are put in by thier parents or just because it looks cool in the movies. This is only a formulted opinion from my teaching experience, and may not be your experience.

I must add, we do use levels still, but they are basically generic terms such as the chum kui level. The titles don't really come for a few years later, this begins when a student will/may become an assistant instructor, then instructor etc.;)

[fiercest tiger]

i use 3 different sashes for different levels, beginners,intermidate and advanced! They really dont mean **** but when your school gets more students you will learn to split the levels up so coloured sashes help split it up and outsiders can see you are organised.

when creating a syllabus it its good for students to earn the level and a sahs sometimes gives them a push or an incentive if you like to call it that or a goal!

play around with it and see what you think, what did your sifu say about this? does he like the idea or is he still an old fashioned sifu, where belts are only to hold your pants up etc?

[straightblast5]

I was never too fond of the whole sash thing for the same reasons that some of you have mentioned. However, with my recent experiences as a martial arts instructor, (and teaching a bunch of children classes) I found that a tangible level system isn't all that bad.

I approach using a tangible level system (i.e. a colored sash or belt system) as more of a tool for me than it is an attention-keeping object for my students. I feel a sash system (or any other tangible level system) is a good way of making sure that you know where all your students are in their training (especially if you have a lot). A more consolidated curriculum also gives your students a more defined syllabus to follow. Having a more concrete progression system can also ensure better quality control when you delegate teaching responsibilities to assistant instructors as they will have a specific course outline to follow (that they themselves have progressed through).

All martial arts are taught through a progression system, it just that not all of them use a tangible object to signify where the practitioners are in their training. The bottom line (IMO) is that a specific level progression is a good way to ensure that your students are learning what you intend them to learn. I find that offering a sash is not as bad as it seems if you use it as a tool for education rather than as a tool for making money (i.e. merely assigning a form to each belt and charging your students loads of cash for each of the many belt tests).

The above is merely the opinion that I have formulated from my experiences as a student and an instructor.

Phil
Ng Family Chinese Martial Arts Association (http://www.ngfamilymartialarts.com)

[PaleDragon]

but they aren't a measure of skill or anything like that...just a measurement between students and sifu of what we've been taught...and to hold up your pants hehehe...anyway, i don't have a feeling toward them either way

[jon]

We have both grades and sash's the main differences being.
1] we never wear them in class there like a trophy you keep at home. you know your grade why show it off.
2] you only recieve a sash AFTER you pass a grading ie white is awarded after your first grading.
3]We dont discuss rank in class openly, there are two informal grades of junior and senior.
4]gradings are done on a 1to1 basis with the instructor. you dont openly talk about gradings in class particualy the higher gradings.
5]many 'gradings' are actualy more of just a special lesson after you have reached a certain stage. these cant be taught in class in public.

Still we have a proper system in place that pertains to your level according to what your meant to be doing.
Its just a way in our class for the instructor to set out for the student what needs to be done for there level.
It also helps when teaching juniors becouse we know where there at and how its meant to be done.

[xiong]

We use the three cord cotton belt in our wushu class. I came from a school where the sash was really just to remind you to suck in your gut while training, so your level was based on what forms you knew.
I think the points raised by straightblast5 and others are important. It is a great motivational tool for kids, and a good way for the instructors to chart students progress and keep them on track with their curriculum.
I have started noticing a little bit of belt envy in myself, but belts or no belts the training should be them same. You learn what the teacher wants to teach and you compete against yourself to improve.
Belts should be for these purposes, motivation and organization, only. I don't care how traditional a school claims to be, charging testing fees is just not cool IMO.
Lastly, the sash or even what forms you know have little to do with how good a fighter you are. I've seen people whose forms look choppy and uncoordinated be awesome fighters, size of the fight in the dog?

[redfist]

my understanding is the use of a sash was not originaly intended to be used as a ranking system,it is used to support the lower
back during hard training,i was also told that it helped to combine the front and back or yin and yang into one.sometimes i where
a sash, sometimes not,depends what i`m doing.

[Excession]

I believe a lot of parents would prefer a system of sashes for their kids. It is a tangible form of progress and gives the impression of a structured course, which in a lot of parents eyes lends validity to a martial art.

Remember that most people have very little knowledge of the martial arts and what they do know may be the highly formalized ways of Karate. So coming to a school where their child has no easily visible and understandable road of progression may put them off, even get them doubting the school.

Lastly, would the average parent send their child to a primary school that used grades or didn't use grades.

[tnwingtsun]

We don't use them in our Bai Mei School but I thought its was neat what Ken Lo(Wui Mei) said about the syllabus of the sash
of the student tied to the side and the teacher's being
tied in the middle representing the teacher being more centered,
ie. the knot being closer to the Dan dein

[fiercest tiger]

yes, thats an interesting point!

it all depends on if you wanna make your school into a business or just cruz along teaching a few. I have it as an incentive for people to focus on training and for organization in my school. i never had a sash when learning with my sifu...:(

on demo's and lion damcing yes we all wore sashes the same colour red, or black, or yellow.