Reality check, Shaolin Training?

[Apprentice]

I jes seen a movie(i know, probably bad reference)...and some of the training in there seemed real hard, actually all of it did, but i can kind of see how it could be beneficial(or fatal)...can someone list several of the ways Shaolin practicioners train?

In the movie there was...

Carrying buckets of water, with knives on your arms so if you let down the buckets you'd get cut and you'd have to pick em back up, or you'd let your arms down completly and stab yourself, and while doing this you had to walk up a skinny incline and balance the whole time...this is for the arms

Standing between two hot burners(on each side of your head)...and you watch a candle swaying back n forth, till it goes faster and faster, then stops to 1 side,(can't this hypnotize someone?) then attack several wooden pillars that had light reflecting off them...this is for the eyes

Kicking through a ring of fire to hit vases n break them without getting burned...for kicks obviously

Picking up a weight on a bamboo stick(or something) and holding it with 1 hand and banging a gong when commanded to(by a stick hitting something), the bamboo stick was long, and eventually you had to hold the very end of it...this is for the wrists

Walking through a room of sand bags and hitting your head with em...for the head power, probably neck too

there was alot more, but just had to wonder bout these(and probably the rest)...but if these aren't true, i imagine that shaolin must be pretty hard and conditioing...what ARE the things they do to get strong/tough? And how does a beginner start out?

[Shaolindynasty]

Master Killer rules!!!
To answer your question I am not really sure what daily training is like but I have seen videos with

monks training by standing on their heads for long periods of time

Standing in a line head butting each others heads

punching and banging themselves on trees

walking up a huge flight of stairs on their hands

hanging themselves by the neck

horse stance on the poles with a sharp stick under their @$$

not to mention a whole lot of forms and sparring training

This is stuff in addition to running, bag work, weights(not the same as you're thinking).

I have also heard that all that stuff is just for the theatrics of it and the real training is like a normal martial arts class but 3 times a day plus practiceing on their own. I hope someone who has really trained their could post their experience though.

[Leonidas]

Yea MASTER KILLER is one of the greastest movies of all time. Not just in the Kung Fu category. I even have the tape........ Now is it realistic? Maybe not since I dont think Buddhist Monks even though they trained in Kung Fu would do all of that. Probably kill yourself before you got skilled enough. Just the headbanging alone could give you brain damage, and the knives on your arms? If you dont have the strength you dont have it. Knives are not gonna make a difference............. Even though It's still a classic and I still love the movie. Better than CTHD:p

[charliec]

A lot of the insanely hard (crazy?) traning we see in the old movies and documentaries seems to have stopped. There are still people breaking all manner of things over their heads, but since the temple itself doesn't really train martial monks anymore a lot of the truley insane stuff seems to have stopped. Master Killer, I think, is a good example of what the temple may have been like before 1989 when Shaolin Temple came out, or perhaps even before the Cultural Revolution. I really doubt it'll ever be like that again though, even with Abbot Shi Yongxin's new plans.

And I mean, lord, I certainly wouldn't want to train like that.

[wushu chik]

I have the DVD!!

[charliec]

Actually I wanna make more clear that I don't think a lot of the insane traning goes on, like what we saw in Master Killer, but I do think there are some monks who can do all the Qigong we see in the old documentaries so I suppose there's still a few places which train people traditionally.

[ffab@cyberkwoon.]

I doubt that the kind of training you described from the video is anything "traditional", at best it would be some kind of special training.
Just like there are some special training to develop a skill faster than usual [hard] training, for instance staying in a low position for a prolonged time, staying suspended by the neck / chin, red sand palm drills and so on.
However even those are not "traditional" in the meaning of commonly practiced in the past. That was still "special training"

Now I wish I could do everything they do in movies for real ;-):D

[Order]

I was reading some history on Shaolin off of the internet, and they said that after temple was destroyed by Manchus and restored in a later date alot of the Skill was lost, so this head monk in order to preserve fighting tradition and ability, put up different chambers (I think it was 36 in total) that would have to be passed in order to go on. I also read on another site that you could choose the chamber you want to train and specialise in. I also heard the name San Te is real, and is a historical figuare.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by charliec
... but since the temple itself doesn't really train martial monks anymore ...

I love how people say this. Have you ever trained with or fought a Shaolin monk? If not, then how do you know?

[David Jamieson]

There are many ways to train the body in isolated areas to maiximize training in that area.

Master Killer was a really cool movie no doubt, and likely it did have some methods that may have represented some of the unusual training methods of shaolin. However, it is a movie, was promoted and sold as a movie and never once did it say it was historically accurate.

By the way, the character "San Te" was unlikely a true character and the movie Master Killer was likely a loose retelling of the legend of the monk Gee Sin Sim See, who was the historical monk that taught the Tiger style to the founder of Hung Gar Kung Fu, Hung Hei Gwoon. Loose, very loose retelling.

Anyway, it is a great Kung Fu flick. Good stuff in it!

peace

[Order]

check this site out: http://www.iron-monkey.com/main.html when you go to Wong Fei Hung lineage it talks about San Te briefly. I also saw other sites while browsing which mentioned him.

[David Jamieson]

hahahahaha,

well apparently that site has surmised the same thing!

san te=Gee sin sim see.

peace

[GeneChing]

I did a piece on Three Sectional Staff a while back and addressed San Te a little in the intro. That issues is available at http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/kf200006.html
My understanding is that San Te was a folk hero distinct from Gee Sim.

As for traditional training at Shaolin Temple, well, it's not like the old Shaw Brothers movies. A lot of the stuff you see in the old Shaolin documentaries is not regularly practiced anymore. They just train in that skill a little ahead of time for the shoot. It does amaze me how quick they pick that stuff up. But when someone is working something like one of the 72 consummate arts (as they have become known in the West from that old orange book) it's done privately. Some of the monks and disciples definately work that stuff, but it's really pretty boring, not at all like the movies romanticized versions.
There aren't 36 training chambers in Shaolin Temple today. Most of the chambers are now altar rooms or living quarters and they train in the courtyards or on the mountain.

[Shaolindynasty]

So the 36 chambers were at songshan? I thought all the 36 chamber/san te/ gee sim stuff happened at the southern temple. Was it said that there were chambers at both temples? I also heard that the training they do now is like the training in a regular martial arts school but just more of it. I think all the different "kungs" like iron body etc. are done extra from class also like in most schools today.

I actually did some stuff off of those shaw movies. While they may not be "true" training some do work and are alot of fun to. I mean since most of us like me were inspired by Shaw movies to begin with.

[David Jamieson]

Gene.

Re: San Te : Really? Well, there ya go then. :D

SD- My personal inspiration to do martial arts was Mohammed Ali.

I didn't even see a bruce flick until I was in my twenties. :D

Definitely didn't see a Shaw flick for a long time after I was already learning asian martial arts.

I know, i know, get with the program hahahahahaha.

Time for a life review, ommmmmmmmm.

peace

[Royal Dragon]

He, He

I rented two movies from Block Buster once, Master Killers and another cool looking one called "The 36 Chambers of Shaolin"

They had different pictures of the same guy on the box, so I though they might be sequalls of one another. WRONG!!!!! it turned out that the movie was released with different titles in different geographical locations. My version of Master Killers was actually dubbed into spanish!!! Wile 36 Chabers was dubbed into english.


Got a free rental out of that one thought.

anyway, got to go trucks a waiting!!!

RD

[Shaolindynasty]

RD- HA! :D Try buying those movies. They tell you one thing on the box and the movie is somthing entirly different. The pictures the story nothin matches. Isn't that false advertising?


Kung Lek- you have a strange thought process my friend!

(kung Lek watching the "thrilla in Manilla")

Hmmm Ali rules, he is the greatest boxer of all time!

(next day)
Kung Lek drives past local boxing gym and to a Shaolin Kungfu school.

Kung: I would like to start taking kungfu.

Sifu: Ok, what about kungfu interests you

Kung: I want to be just like Ali!

Sifu::confused: