Question on the 5 elements/animals

[don bohrer]

I have been thinking about the 5 elements lately. In Kenpo each of our animals has an element associated with it. Our Techniques for each ranking associate a certain animal/ element, but that is as far as it's mentioned. My school encourages us to reflect on the animal, but I feel there alot is missing.

Could someone please elaborate on the 5 elements. Are the elements an attitude to filter your fighting techniques through? Would stances, blocks, attacks, etc change with each element. Any information on the 5 elements would be greatly appriecated, thanks guys.

[No_Know]

Each element has a certain characteristic. Each characteristic has a translation into actions--movement, power type, purpose/intent...the techniques with the same elements will have a commonality with that element. think of the element when you practice the technique of that element. You will notice the similarity between the nature of the element to the functionality of the techniques.

[Wu Wei]

I just thought of this right now.

Is there any association between chinese astrological types and fighting types?
By this I mean, is there any relation to the style of martial arts a person should do based on there zodiac?

just a thought i had.

[DelicateSound]

I'm pretty sure there isn't. After all the "animal" styles were created as fighting techniques that mimicked the way animals fought. The animals in the astrological sign are something completely different I think.

Anyway, I bloody well hope not - I'm the year of the Rat! :p

[Repulsive Monkey]

In Bagua when they trace the outline of the Tri-grams there is a relationship to the I Ching and its meaning. In Tai Chi the classic quote of having "The 8 Tri-grams in the hand and the 5 directions in the feet" too is a direct reference to the I Ching. The I Ching and the five elements are intrinsincally inseperable and if one follows the Stems and Branches approach to Martial Arts then there is a definite corrolation between when you were born, your intrinsic nature and maybe your constitutional strengths and weaknesses in your art (Possibly?!). If certain moves are said to represent certain elements which so coinside with ones own element (this is through 5-element theory and/or Stems and Branches theory) then maybe there is a particular strength or inherent weakness there. I think if you look deep and wide enough you can obtain literature to back this up.

[nightair]

Which animals apply to each element? I wanted to know because I was wondering if the styles can be applied to the same cycles that the elements follow(mother-son,controlling,destructive...) Thats what I've been wondering.

[Mr. Nemo]

In bagua, our elements are water, wood, fire, earth, and metal. All of them except fire and water have a yin and yang component, which adds up to eight. Each component of each element has its own triagram and animal.

water - snake
yin wood - dragon
yang wood - big bird
fire - hawk
yin earth - unicorn (not really a unicorn, but a chinese mythical animal. We call it unicorn)
yang earth - bear
yin metal - monkey
yang metal - lion

In our system, these are the eight mother palms. Elements of them are found everywhere in yin fu bagua (chi kung, every form, chin na...)

Elements vary from system to system. Yours are probably different.

[No_Know]

There are five elements and twelve different zodiac signs. There aren't enough elements to match the Chinese zodiac animals.

fire, water, air(wind), earth, void

fire, water, wood/wind, earth, void or metal

While any of the elements might be element yin, element yang, that's only five times two equals ten, which does not equal twelve--the number of the animals of the Chinese zodiac.

While wind and wood are interchangeable depending on if air is one of the other of the five elements in that arrangement, you still only have five at a time and even doubled is ten which is not twelve So this inconsistancy or mismatchedness is what leads me to think that there is no correlation betweenthe Chinese zodiac signs animals, and the five elements.

Note: Hsing-I has twelve animals (not all are also Chinese zodiac animals). Kung-Fu could be based on at least nearly almost anything. A Kung-Fu could be based on the Chinese zodiac with each sign having a behavior flavored by one or each set of five elements an each element yin and yanged.

A Kung-Fu based on the Chinese zodiac would range from twelve styles to 12*5=60 styles to one hundred twenty styles, seemingly some-like. Very good.

[SevenStar]

As far as the elements go, I'm surpirsed no has mentioned the body. each element correspond to a organ in the body, as well as an emotion and a color.

wood: liver/gall bladder anger green

fire: heart red joy

earth: spleen/stomach yellow pensiveness

metal: lung white sadness

water: kidney black fear

they also have associated sense organs, tastes and climates.

I dunno if the animals apply to this.

[Sho Pi]

Depending on which school and what lineage you follow in your school will depend on what five animals you associate with the five elements.

The Wu-Hsing is very old and has different interpretations. Back around 160 AD (not sure on the exact date) the Chinese doctor Hua To related the elements to five animal types. Hua To was the first real surgeon in China and is very revered to this day among the Taoists. He created the Wu Chin Sho or five animal frolics as a health system.

The animals are Deer (Wood), Tiger (Fire), Bear (Water), Crane (Metal), Monkey (Earth). Each animal and element is further associated with an internal organ, compass direction, season, color, flavor, and sense organ. These animals as you can see do not follow the Zodiac which I belive comes from a slightly different branch of philosophy as does the I Ching.

It is important to note that these were primarily devised as health benefits. However, the movements have many martial similarities. There is some evidence that this is the beginnings of the martial philosophy/health benefits of Chinese kung fu. Later on the Shaolin monks adapted these and used them, modified them to fit there particular methods. The popularity of the Shaolin methods (animals) has endured due to the history of the Chinese politics.

Sho Pi

[les paul]

i don't understand where the kempo link/association comes. are you talking xingyi or kempo?