Working PART of a muscle...

[-Sai-]

I read some pages back, this, written by Iron Fist...
---
You cannot work part of a muscle. There is no difference between UPPER abs and LOWER abs. The abdominals are ONE muscle, with 6 heads (which are what you are seeing when you see someone's six pack). If the abs contract, the WHOLE THING contracts, not part of it. Same thing with pecs... incline bench does not work the upper pecs, decline bench does not work the lower pecs. The pectoralis major (pecs) is one muscle. Either it's contracting or it's not. The upper part cannot contract while the lower part relaxes, or vise versa. Same for all muscles, you can't contract just your lower quads or upper biceps, etc.
If anyone who challenges the above information can send me pictures of them doing the following (and thus proving me wrong), I will retract all my statements. Additionally, they will have successfully proved all anatomy textbooks wrong:
1) Flex ONLY your upper pecs
2) Flexing ONLY lower pecs
3) Flexing only the upper portion of your biceps
4) Flexing only the lower quads
People think that such and such exercise works the upper abs, or the lower abs, but they're wrong
Hope that clears stuff up. Incline bench works the pecs from a different angle than flat or decline bench, but still the ENTIRE muscle is firing when you do it.
It's a common mistake to think otherwise, so don't be discouraged or anything There are still many pro bodybuilders who think incline bench works their upper chest.
15 flat (traditional)- working your center chest
---

And it was very interesting to read, as I always thought you
could work a certain part of the abs. (i'm knew about other muscles, like the bicep. A bicep is a bicep, you can't work a part of it - just not the abs)

So if you're correct (i'm sure you are) that means all those excersisers that you read in some magazines, and people tell you, that show you how to work you bottom two ab heads, are wrong. Is this correct??? As the abs are one muscle, when you do a certain excersise, you are working ALL of it right? Then why is the bottom two always hardest to see? Is that just because that's where the fat mostly builds up? OR is there another reason.

Thanx

[Kumkuat]

Iyou, that show you how to work you bottom two ab heads, are wrong. Is this correct???

What exercises are you talking about? Ab wheel of doom, crunches, situps, leg raises, hip raises, etc., all work the entire rectus abdominis along with hip flexors and maybe obliques and some thigh muscles.



As the abs are one muscle, when you do a certain excersise, you are working ALL of it right? Then why is the bottom two always hardest to see? Is that just because that's where the fat mostly builds up? OR is there another reason.



Yep, it's the fat.

[IronFist]

Sai,

Yes, any magazine article that tells you you are working the "top" part of your abs, or your "lower" abs, is wrong. This includes Men's Health, Flex, or any other popular magazine that says different exercises work different parts.

The bottom is hardest to see because:

a) the bottom of the abs extends below your waist, and therefore you can't see it with pants on usually

b)as stated above, that's where the last bits of fat tend to hang

Good questions,

Iron

[lowsweep]

I have read that you cannot work different parts of the same muscle in other places, too. Why is it, then, that after doing a harder variation of crunches for several months I got great upper ab definition and almost no results in my lower abs, and when I included leg raises (I think that's what they're called, you lie on your back and raise both legs up at once) I got much better definition in my lower abs? Maybe since you are working the muscle in different ways it builds muscle more suited to the new excercise?

[rubthebuddha]

the reason why the lower abs are difficult to get defined is the same reason my six pack looks differently than those in the healthy magazines (aside from my eating habits ;)): you have ONE main ab muscle from your solar plexus to your groin -- the rectus abdominus. it looks like 6 or 8 or so muscles because of tendenous material that crosses over the muscle. it looks differently on me than you because my tendons cross at points different from those your tendons cross at. few stomachs lines are perfectly straight (maybe surgery), and few are even. just work your abs hard, your back harder and grunt knowing you can take a baseball bat to the tummy and only feel slightly less bad than the softy next to you does when clobbered.

[Robinf]

To go on more with genetic difference, I've found that above my waist I have just a 4-pack--large ones on top and medium ones on the bottom. It's actually kind of interesting.

Just wanted to throw out there that some folks even have that much difference in their abs structure.

Aren't genetics fun?

Robin

[Kumkuat]

My abs are more like a vertical brick layer. The left and the right side are totally uneven.

[Ford Prefect]

Robin,

I believe it's quite common for women to have the 4-pack look.

[Robinf]

Most of the women I work out with won't let anything show, so I have nothing to base that on. But, a couple of women do let their abs show and they both have 6 paks.

Robin

[IronFist]

Some people have side by side abs, others have staggered. It's genetics.

Iron

[fa_jing]

Even though it is impossible to contract only part of a muscle, don't you think that some exercises cause part of the muscle to contract MORE than the rest? Example: Incline bench works the whole pec muscle, but contraction is more in the upper pec. Haven't you noticed a difference in the way your stomach muscles feel after crunches, as opposed to leg raises?
Just an opinion. -FJ

[IronFist]

Incline bench works the whole pec muscle, but contraction is more in the upper pec. Haven't you noticed a difference in the way your stomach muscles feel after crunches, as opposed to leg raises?


I've answered this like ten times already :)

Incline bench does not target the upper pec more than the lower pec. All those "lower ab" exercises hurt lower than your abs because they're working your hip flexors along with your abs. All that leg raise bull****... try lifting your legs without using your hip flexors, you can't, because the legs are controlled by the hipflexors and NOT the abs.

Iron

[scotty1]

Patience dear boy.:) ;)

I do leg raises or I use this excellent thing in my garage which is a frame so you lay your arms across the top horizontally and then bring your knees up to your chest.

I understand that both of these exercises affect your hip flexors (which affect kicking speed, yeah) and your abs. But if you are using your hip flexors to raise your legs, why are your abs affected at all?

I STILL DON'T GET IT!

[scotty1]

er, I think Iron has topped himself through fear of explaning again. But I know that its not part of the abs being worked- what I want to know is this: why when you do exercises working the hip flexors are the abs worked as well. Is it like a shoulder/bicep thing? And do hip flexors effect your kicks very much?

[Robinf]

If I may. Pick up the book, "Strength Training Anatomy"-- that will have all of your answers (and then some). It's really worth the buy, and not expensive (at amazon.com or barnes and noble.com --it's usually in the store, too). Anyone who has any questions about how to improve any area should have this book. It tells you the muscles that are being worked primarily, secondarily, and so on.

Robin

[IronFist]

Oops, I'm sorry guys. I didn't know I was being asked anything.

Let me try to answer now:

But if you are using your hip flexors to raise your legs, why are your abs affected at all?

Well, technically, if you stand up and raise your leg, your abs don't really get used at all. I mean, through irridation (I think that's what Pavel calls it) you can get more tension in your hip flexors if you flex your abs, too, but strictly speaking, your abs don't do much.

If you're talking about laying leg raises, I think your abs fire to support your hips. Cuz try this: lay on the ground and raise only one leg. Your abs don't contract at all. Now raise both legs, feel your abs kick in? I think they're stabilizing your hips rather than raising your legs.

why when you do exercises working the hip flexors are the abs worked as well.

I think I just answered that above. If not, ask again.

Is it like a shoulder/bicep thing? And do hip flexors effect your kicks very much?

What shoulder bicep thing?

Hip flexors affect your kicks in the sense that they are responsible for raising your thighs, so whatever power and speed you can generate with them will carry over into that portion of the movement.

Iron

[scotty1]

Thanks for the answers Iron.
Ignore the shoulder/bicep thing.

[fa_jing]

I've been told that the deltoid (shoulder) muscle is one muscle with three heads - not true? And these heads can be targeted individually.
I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to gain knowledge. Anyone know about this?
-FJ