Wing Tsun

[vixie]

HI!
ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE HERE THAT KNOW OF OR PRACTICE WING TSUN?

XIE XIE!
:D VIXIE

[jesper]

What do you want to know ??

[vixie]

I HAVE A FRIEND THAT PRACTICES WT, AND I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE HERE THAT DO AS WELL SO HE CAN TALK WITH OTHER PEOPLE WHO PRACTICE THE SAME STYLE. I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S A MEMBER HERE YET OR NOT...ONCE I FIND OUT, I'LL TELL HIM TO COME TO THIS FORUM.

THANKS!!!

[rubthebuddha]

1. lay off the caps lock, please.

2. yeah, i study WT. we have a few more of us out there. be patient and we'll pop up.

[greyseal]

We like to hide. hiding is fun.:eek:

[rubthebuddha]

here's where i've been hiding:

image:www.rub-the-buddha.cityslide.com/i/3/33/334/3349/33492/334923/mixedpaper.jpg

[cobra]

Yeah, I know of and practice WingTsun, of course, I don't know near enough of it. Where does your friend study?

[iblis73]

Cobra, do you train with Jeff Webbs group here in Austin??

[cobra]

Yes, I've been training under Sifu Webb for about 2 years now.

[iblis73]

I'm thinking of training with his group. I moved up from San Antonio where I trained and taught under Will Parker. Dunno, I've thought of actually making the commute once or twice a week to stay under my old instructor.

Sadly, I just learned about Emin bai's split last month. It turns out several of Parkers top students (and friends of mine) are under Emin now and would like me to train with them. I'm really torn about this as I've trained on and off under Parker since '93 but have also trained with his top students very intensely.

Maybe I should just sign up for BJJ and avoid the conflict???

[vixie]

My friend studies in Scotland. I told him about this forum, and hopefully he'll find a friendly resource here.

Thanks for your replies!
:D

[iblis73]

Cobra, I see you're in Temple. I 'd love to train sometime. My schedule only permits days (before 3pm) and weekends. Also, I'm in South Austin. If you ever want to get together informally I'd itching to do some WT. Its been about 2 yrs since I trained and am getting grumpy:(

[cobra]

Yeah, I'd love to get together, would probably have to be on a weekend though. E-mail me at yort95@aol.com and we'll see if we can arrange a time to work out.

Sifu Webb has a class during the daytime one day a week and classes on Saturday too just to let you know.

Later,

Scott

[rubthebuddha]

i'm going to be visiting austin sometime either next month or february to spend some time with some friends, and i'm hoping to spend a class or two at sifu jeff's kwoon. if i can't, i'd love to meet up with one of you austin folks for some practice.

anyone know if sifu jeff would mind a student from a sister school up in bellingham (david brown's kwoon) dropping in for a class (with warning). and if not, any takers on a bit of tea and chi sau? i'm testing to finish level 8 on the 20th, if that offers perspective.

[tsb]

What's Wing Tsun? :D

[iblis73]

Send me an email at iblis73@yahoo.com. I haven't trained in a couple of years but was an 8th or 9th when I left.

If you're up for it we could do some sparring or hard contact reaction drills. Either way I'd be more than happy to meet up and do some training.

As a general question, do the LT schools still do the Lat sau program? We never went over lat sau when LT did a seminar-he always had us do the same techniques but not as part of the lat sau program. Has anything really changed since Emin bai left? Who gives seminars/tests people now? I'm really curious.

Thanks

[iblis73]

TSB
WT is wing tsun, the trademarked system of grandmaster Leung Ting. It is very similar to the wc/vt systems though I think overall it is superior in some small but vital regards and has a standardized modern grading and training program.

[Nichiren]

I also used to train WT. My SiFu was Emin. I like the system but not the politics :(

[rubthebuddha]

i don't think anyone liked the politics, Nichiren.

as far as the lat sau, my kwoon still does it, even though we're directly affiliated with GM Leung Ting. it's a good training tool that can help teach a lot of the dynamics of unstuck (non-chi sau or pre-chi sau) fighting. plus, when done properly, it can be one heck of a workout.

[tsb]

I know. I've been at it for a year and a half now.

I guess I should have used a wink instead of a smile.

[mun hung]

Alright, WT guys. Not trying to start trouble here but what is your opinion of Leung Ting's latest title eleventh level "Master of Almightiness?" Do you think it's a bit extreme?

[iblis73]

Even if I go back to LT system I'll probably nevere train with him, being a lonely student. He can call himself God almighty for all I care. His accomplishments are supreme-a huge organization, a PHD,great skills, and academic research into WTs roots.

[Novox77]

Sifu Jeff Webb is my Si-fu as well. I train in a working group in Salem, MA, north of Boston. I'd love to get together with anyone in the area with WT/WC experience to train. Let me know.

[ATENG]

in terms of lat-sau, i think that it was developed by kernspecht so i would think that wt schools would still use it to train regardless of emin.

oh yeah, and i guess i'm one of the WT guys too, though i haven't been training for almost a year since i moved.

[jesper]

just to clear things up WT is not superior to WC/VT or whatever way you spell it.

Oh and before you start arguing, I have trained WT for 16 years and spend a lot of time crosstraining with other branches.

[iblis73]

I disagree. See my other post about some of the important differences between the systems (again we are talking mechanics, not people.)

I respectfully disagree, I feel that WT as a style is superior if only in the rules it applies to fighting and the way it uses its techniques. Its not to say the other styles aren't effective, but every little thing counts in a fight.

[Mutant]

Hey Novox, whassssup? I'm from Boston too. And I train in Wing Chun.
I train at a Wing Chun school in Cambridge. Its Guo Lo Wing Chun which is also called 'Turning Style'. It is a family style that did not come through the Hong Kong/Yip Man lineage. It was developed by Leung Jan in Gu Lao Village. My SiFu's name is Stanley Jue, he learned the system from SiFu Henry Mui who brought the style to the U.S. from China.

If you want to meet up sometime to train and 'talk shop' that would be cool. Maybe i could check out your training group in Salem or something? Or youre always welcome to drop by our school too. Or we could just meet up somewhere else and train. Nothing competitive, just hang out and have some fun.

Its been a strange last few months for me training-wise, so i'm not exactly up to par by my standards, but i'm still game to work out. 1st I tore a ligament in my ankle training for a tournament last summer so had to lay off it bigtime and am just now able to push myself again and train regularly....

And then our kwoon burned down! There was a fire in the old warehouse building where we train and it sooted everything up, but what was worse is that the building dept. condemned our building. Its in kind of a sketchy part of the city and there were a lot of illegal 'tenants' in the building, so they cleared it out. So we recently resumed training there again but its not legal, we have to sneak in past the 'condemned' signs on the door and keep a low profile. Its real dirty & dusty in there so not the best training environment. So classes are smaller than ever now. My SiFu's actually looking for a new place to set up shop, which is tricky cause the schools been there for so long.

So if you want to train sometime, let me know, that would be cool. I'm off to head over there right now to train, gotta run!

[Novox77]

I've heard about the WC school in Cambridge, in fact I believe you guys poster MIT every once in a while; I've seen them walking thru the halls. I actually live inside MIT campus in an apartment complex not affiliated with the school. Here's my email and maybe we can set something up: novox77@att.net

[rubthebuddha]

the basics of lat sau as the western world practices it was developed by gm kernspecht years ago before all this shiite with emin came up. it used to be considered more of a pad da practice, but it has been changed at least in the states. now we just punch and wedge. i don't know if the ewto has stuck with the pak da/punch flavor or what.

now as far as "master of enlightenment," gm leung ting doesn't think he's god nor does he think he's superman. this is a snippet from the columbia wing tsun page that profiles how rank is designated.

The WT Grading System:
Student Grade 1-12
Technician Grade 1-4
Practician Grade 5-8 (Master Level)
Ninth Level Man of Arrival (Grandmaster Level)
Tenth Level Master of Comprehension
Eleventh Level Master of Almightiness (awarded to a Tenth Level Grandmaster after his retirement)
Twelfth Level Sage of Philosophy (awarded to an Eleventh Level Grandmaster after his death)

last time i checked, gm leung ting isn't retiring any time soon, as he's going to be spending a lot more time in the states making sure america is run the way that he wanted years ago when he first set up an american organization. i think that the 11th level was more of a reward from his senior students for his efforts in making wt such an internationally respected and practiced art and helping bring it to so many people.

like i said, he isn't retiring all that soon, as he has some goals and pretty high expectations for north america (he has all along). happily, my kwoon is the largest in the states and he's going to be spending a healthy amount of time with us. shame, that. :D

[cobra]

I don't think that would be a problem at all, though it's not my place to say. But you could contact Sifu Jeff and ask him, you can contact him through his website. I look forward to meeting you, it would be sort of nice to meet some of the people on this forum.

[S.Teebas]

Twelfth Level Sage of Philosophy (awarded to an Eleventh Level Grandmaster after his death)

Good to see people thinking of the future!

[rubthebuddha]

teebas: any ideas on who the holder of that rank would be?

cobra: i look forward to it, too. plus, i've never seen another WT kwoon or how another was run. i've met people from other WT schools in washington, idaho and british columbia, but i've never seen their schools.

i'll let you know as time nears for the field trip.

[S.Teebas]

:)

[rubthebuddha]

i got a jackson that says his familial name might have been yip. but that's just me.

[KenWingJitsu]

"it used to be considered more of a pad da practice, but it has been changed at least in the states. now we just punch and wedge. i don't know if the ewto has stuck with the pak da/punch flavor or what."

Emin uses this t differentiate his from the EWTO now. The EWTO uses pak-da, AWTO uses da-da hahahahahahaha!!!

da-da...man that's funny shiznit.

[iblis73]

Yikes, Kenwing make funny. Kenwing, do you train under Emin bai? Has anything changed since the split from the IWT-whatever?

I'm in a dilemna myself, going back to the WT org. or following Emin bai. My old instructor stayed with LT, but most of my si-hings went with Emin.

[Novox77]

Is it true Emin shut down the LA headquarters because of a financial crunch? It was something I heard but haven't been able to confirm.

[iblis73]

There are two sides to each story, and the EWTO has some pretty ****ing evidence against Emin. I personally tend to think the EWTO is probably right than Emin is, based upon what I've seen over the years. I believe Emin several years ago got the copyright for the AWTO logo in his name, so he can carry on using that logo. Also when the huge confab in 2000 took place there were only about 70-100 participants, half of which came from Europe. Not totally Emins fault, but it makes me wonder.
Its interesting that most of the higher ranking people stuck with the organization instead of going with Emin.

That said, even if it were all Emins fault he is still an excellent fighter and teacher. I have had some issues with him over the years, but hell I've probably had more with my day to day instructor. From what I've seen Emins training is certainly more rigorous, and the few students I know who went with Emin teach in a very rigorous manner.

I'd love to have known what really went down though. It seems the split had been building over the years. But even Nick Smart in England and another guy split, and some guy named Avci also split in Germany.

Anyone have any in depth info on this?

[KenWingJitsu]

Iblis, before I tell you which way you should head, I would say you really can't go wrong as long as you in the WT system. I do train in L.A. with Emin, so take it for what it's worth, but initialy, LT decided to stick with Emin, but later changed his mind & went with Kenspect. Why? I would gue$$ more $tudent$ = more $$.

My si hings/soks stayed with Emin because they've been close to him for years. I wasn't too concerned about it because I knew the instruction I get is top notch. Personally, I like Emin's approach. i don't think the EWTO is much different...the only change I know of is the lat sao which now begins with both guys punching with both hands instead of pak-punch. I like it better cos it's more realistic. In a fight, someone will be punching at you.

Take note that Emin pretty much built the American WT market (AWTO) from the ground up, so he's definitely entitled to it, not LT or Kenshpect. They've only been here a few times. And the L.A. school isn't closed, it merely moved location.

As for Emin's style being more 'rigorous', EXACTLY! Why shouldn't it be? if you're training to defend yourself, it better be hard. Too many WC people are soft & do forms all day and have no idea what full contact is like. With Emin, you KNOW your training very realistically, so for me the harder, the better.

[iblis73]

I agree Emin built the AWTO, though I think it should have been a bit larger after 10 years. I think a big problem is that many of the instructors didn't train the way Emin bai trained us at seminars. I always feared Emins seminars becuase I knew they would be rigorous-and we weren't used to that rigor. Its seems funny, but its sad becuase a LOT of students would start to think "gee...why don't we train like this all the time. We'd be real badass if we did..."

I know Al Kelly is rigorous-I actually stopped training the first time (and yes it was becuase I didn't feel I could fight after 1 year of training) when he started. Makes me sad :(

My only beef with going with Emin bai's group is that they are in the next city over an hour away. I talked to my si hing and he encouraged me to join and start a working group-something I am really loathe to do. I don't enjoy teaching others.
Of course Emin now has a school in Acapulco :)! That would be fun!

[rubthebuddha]

honestly, it doesn't matter. we now have two separate organizations and, although it's not the happiest of arrangements, we're stuck with it. ideally, i'd just say train. when you're done, train some more. :)

[GiantMidget]

"it used to be considered more of a pad da practice, but it has been changed at least in the states. now we just punch and wedge. i don't know if the ewto has stuck with the pak da/punch flavor or what."

Hi Kenwingjitsu,

Im interested in your punch and wedge - Im familiar with the old ewto version. Is the wedge just a punch which includes your opponents punch to knock it off centre?
Does the person who is wedged then deflect to bong or does he allow his punch to be wedged?

Cheers,
GiantMidget

[rubthebuddha]

in the american version of lat sau, both people punch straight from their center, and both get wedged off if their punches are good. no triggering to bong sau. just wedge. like chi sau, if the wedge isn't good, someone's getting hit. lat sau really emphasizes good, clean, straight punching directly from your center, because if you don't, you're clocked.

[GiantMidget]

Thanks for the explanation Rub. I'll give it a go. Sounds like a good way to condition my radius and ulna too.

[KenWingJitsu]

Yup...rubthebudha is correct. You would only bong if the person punches too far 'in'. he should be punching to your center.

[jweir]

I only had a little experience with the AWTO lat sau, since the split happened right after I learned it, but I didn't really like the feel of it. I never got much instruction or correction on it so I might have been missing something, but I always felt like I was too close to my training partner to punch with proper technique (since we were touching at the knee). How much do/did all of you AWTO members like the new lat sau? How well do you think it stacks up with the german programs?

[rubthebuddha]

one of the main reasons for the switch from the german program was the fact that it was constantly pak-da. period. the american version has us punching constantly personally, i'd take punching as a habit instead of pak-da.

as i have been taught it, contact is not supposed to be at the knee, but at the shin. those few inches make a big difference when you're that close to begin with.

honestly, i like it, because it forces good footwork and proper upper-body relaxation. if yours isn't all that good, a simple switch from the inside to the outside causes most people i work with (and myself half the time) to lose balance a little -- a big nono.