Forms with eyes closed

[logic]

I have been doing this for a while and i'm much better at it now.I notice I have better balance and I can flow through my forms better with my eyes open.It's not to hard,I got the hang of it pretty quick.Try it sometime if you haven't already.

[Water Dragon]

As a general rule, I do my push hands with my eyes closed

[Ginger Fist]

--use a blindfold ... takes the strain off the mind 2 keep eyes closed ... doesn't give u an out if u suffer a break in move ... then put some chairs in the area ... same deal ... golf balls on the ground ... same deal

[sanchezero]

Golf balls are for sissies.

A real artist is sensitive enough that golf balls are not a challenge.

Use #0 steel shot and scatter AT LEAST a 5lb bag around your training floor.

:rolleyes:

[Mutant]

I often practice chi sao w/ eyes closed or blindfolded.
Better than keeping your eyes closed...have you ever tried doing forms and chi gung in complete darkness? Thats a trip, highly recommend it.

[Kristoffer]

uhmm, and this is good.. how? Why would u become better at your forms blindfolded than else?:confused: Chi sao I understand, but forms??

[Kumkuat]

so you're gonna fight eyes closed too huh?

[Starchaser107]

For some strange reason one legged stances in yoga and kungfu are difficult to hold with your eyes shut. yet seem ok with them open, i realised this inconsistency for some time now...
Can anybody explain why this is so?

[Stranger]

Starchaser,

The stance is easier to hold with your eyes open because you have a visual reference point for your balance (i.e. whaterver you are staring at). Without the reference point, it is easier to lose your balance and orientation (like JFK JR. piloting a plane in the fog).

Kristoffer,
The benefits of training and moving this way are that it forces you to rely more heavily on other senses and it can encourage relaxation.

[halfling]

OOoooo right up my alley starchaser
Stranger is right about the visual point thing..... very influential on your balance. Balance control originates deep inside your ear in some little tubes filled with fluid. The fluid moves around and lets you know if you are standing up straight laying down, etc. Anyhow..... there are three systems that work completely together to send balance information to your brain; they are the vestibular system (part of the inner ear, those little fluid filled tubes) , the visual system (sight), and your proprioceptive system (muscles and tendons and how they work to keep your body in line). If you have a defecit in one of these systems, the others must take over and compensate for the problem. if your eyes are cloes you have to work hard with your inner ear and with your muscles. Since yoga has to do with relaxation, you probably cannot properly relax to hold a position if your compensating for the loss of sight.

[Mutant]

in the dark or blindfolded is a great way to train, for chi sao or push hands, but also other forms or improvisational drills and playing around, as well as chi gung....you can really 'listen' to you body this way.
no i don't practice like that all the time....its just one type of exercise to increase awareness....your eyes can distract you from all the other imput that you is out there....it isolates those other senses, not only of surrounding or training/sparring partner (who you need to be able to sense the slightest movement or intent), but awareness of your own body....you have to 'feel' whats going on and you can have a heightened awareness of your own (& your opponents) breathing, your heart rate, youre energy and balance. then when you open your eyes, you can bring this added awareness with you.
of course i wouldnt close my eyes in a fight, you need all the awareness available, but thats just an intense training method to isolate and train your senses. and it helps you become more aware of where your body is w/o your eyes telling you. Try it outside on a dark night on uneven ground...try weapons in the dark, you really need to know your weapon and where it is at all times.
besides, you may some day be attacked in the dark or unable to see, so you might as well be comfortable, aware and able without seeing.

[halfling]

once we grappled blindfolded. i found it very interesting and beneficial because you had to let your body feel where the other person was. where there was negative energy and where you had room to move. lots of fun. brings in a whole new element or takes one away, depends on how you look at it.

[joedoe]

I grapple in the dark with my GF all the time. It's fantastic for sensitivity :D

[bamboo_ leaf]

“Balance control originates deep inside your ear in some little tubes filled with fluid. The fluid moves around and lets you know if you are standing up straight laying down, etc. Anyhow..... there are three systems that work”

I was under the impression that it was the small bits of bone moving around could be wrong.

I think it would be incorrect to train this way. If this was a good way to train why would they say” eyes arrive first, followed by waist, hand” closeing your eyes 8) dosn't seem like it would help this process.

I think learning to feel where your center point is by relaxing the body is a much better process.

[halfling]

babmoo leaf - you are right there are little bones in your ear, but they have nothing to do with balance. You have no idea how complex your ear is. The three little bones deal with the transduction of sound from your outer ear to your inner ear. the bones are in your middle ear. The tubes are called the semicircular canals and they are deeper inside your ear than the bones, they dont move, just the fluid inside them. yes the bones themselves move and vibrate to transfer frequency and intensity. :)

[Starchaser107]

Halfling thanks for the info.
Ive noticed though that after a while it becomes easier and easier to hold (kungfu /chi kung postures) so I guess it is possible to fully compensate for the visual deficit.
The Asana I was thinking about in yoga is called vrksasana or tree. it is in itself supposed to aid in balance and tone the leg muscles, however it is not required to close the eyes in that particular posture , i just did this to see how it would work.

That was really on my own time though, during class we sometimes work techniques in the dark, fending off multiple attackers or grappling, but jamaica being what it is sometimes we get graced by power outages and consequently get an impromptu in the dark class.

I see this as a good excercise for balance, but for forms comp or having your forms look goo, I see this as counterproductive. Reason being that when you do foirms your head follows your fist or striking hand or it follows the way you are blocking. Your eyes must be focused on the attacker or attackee of your forms. Having your eyes closed would seem to complicate things. I also keep eyes closed for Tui Sao.

[Starchaser107]

Maybe you could let your eyes/head follow your hands even with them closed , if you can balance on a pole while doing white crane stance from nothern shaolin and do this eyes closed and facing the attack without stumbling or losing your balance then these exercises wont help you, you dont need them. Its for people like me that like the dark...
heh heh heh.:cool:

[Qi dup]

My rooms to small to do forms in, espcialy in the dark. I actually tried it one time, my wall and my bed defeated me with ease. But it sounds cool, I'll have to try the blind fold idea outside. thanks!

[Ginger Fist]

Golf balls are for sissies.

--u should know 4 sure ... sissie boy

A real artist is sensitive enough that golf balls are not a challenge.

--4 a sissie like u i guess balls r never a challege ... betcha keep a pair of 'em on ur chin

Use #0 steel shot and scatter AT LEAST a 5lb bag around your training floor.

--sure stumpy ... & then coat the floor with 50 wt. motor oil ... go all the way right sissy boy?

[bamboo_ leaf]

A very young leaf used to so some sparing drills while blindfolded. They where more for reaction to sounds. One person is blindfolded and a couple of other people attempt to grab or hit them.

Some people have mentioned closing the eyes while pushing. This might be a good practice for some. I can’t really agree with it. If push hands was just getting the right angles and positioning then yes closing your eyes :cool: might not be to bad.

The practice involves your whole self, including your shen “sprite” by being able to direct this you can actually cut the root of the other person. I don’t believe this is possible with the eyes closed.

just some thoughts

many styles use stumps to move on and spar on to improve balance. has any one ever hard of the plum flower poles?

some styles with elements of plum flowr fist share some of these training ideas.

luck in training

[Xebsball]

I'd end up breaking the furniture and myself in the process...

[logic]

Originally posted by logic
I wouldn't fight with my eyes closed, this is mainly for balance and using other senses.

Thanks Stranger
With no visual reference point you do have to rely on other senses and fine tune those senses.

Halfling,- very good info

Mutant Warrior.
Heighten awareness,I should have mentioned that also.

Abandit,- Yeah I've been there.

Everyone else.
Thanks for your replies-Neg and Pos
Like I said before,after a while of doing this I noticed more balance.Try it before you judge it. Yes I also work on the plum flower posts and I also notice better balance from that.

Always willing to try something different.

[EARTH DRAGON]

I teach my students 5 element training when the lern their forms. One of the elements is through clouds (eyes closed) it helps make you aware of your center fo gravity , balance and surroundings.another is through water and so on.
Try taking a vow of silence one day you will hear many more things.

[Ginger Fist]

I teach my students 5 element training when the lern their forms. One of the elements is through clouds (eyes closed) it helps make you aware of your center fo gravity , balance and surroundings.another is through water and so on.

--right on ... many want 2 argue about the worth .... never bothering 2 try it

Try taking a vow of silence one day you will hear many more things.

--right again ... put on wrap around sunglasses after painting the inside of the lens black ... flat enamel works best ... go thru the day ... u will hear-feel-sense many more things ... ok - don't try driving ur car

[Robinf]

I also stretch with my eyes closed. This way, I concentrate on the sensation not the sight of how high my leg is/n't.

Doing forms with my eyes closed has improved my balance and coordination, too. We do it face to face sometimes--makes you work on your awareness, too.

Robin

[wingchunner]

Don't always practice with your eyes closed. Sometimes, but the majority should be done with your eyes open. It is important for proper alignment and positioning.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Thank you ginger fist for not ripping apart the advice that I posted to people! it seems as though you always have something negitive to say about what I post . Why I dont know becuse I always have something positive and helpful to share with my fellow martial artists. and rarely say anthing bad about anybody on this forum in all my posts! maybe the christmas spirit has hit you? I dont know but thanks!

[Ginger Fist]

Thank you ginger fist for not ripping apart the advice that I posted to people!

--awwww shucks ... it weren't a nuthin

it seems as though you always have something negitive to say about what I post . Why I dont know becuse I always have something positive and helpful to share with my fellow martial artists. and rarely say anthing bad about anybody on this forum in all my posts!

--fair enuff & here's ur answer ... u must determine the quality of steel in a sword ... u don't know the maker ... u can't do a test cut with it ... u can't touch the edge 2 feel its sharpness ... u can't handle it 2 know its balance ... ? can u do that will tell u sumthin useful?

maybe the christmas spirit has hit you? I dont know but thanks

--mmmmm ... mother's hakka & father's a jew ... prolly not it but ? the fu*ck ... everybody sing "jingle bells - ginger fist smells - santa's on the way ..."

[Bastet]

We do the forms blindfolded sometimes in our school. It is good for balance training, but it is also a test of your stances. Most of our forms are supposed to end in exactly the same spot that they were started... when you cant see where that spot is you can really tell if you are stronger on one side, or not advancing enough on techniques. Of course you do need someone else there to let you know if you are way off course (heading towards the mirrors or something), otherwise it can get a bit messy.

We lost power at the school one night a couple of weeks ago and used the opportunity to work on sensitivity drills in the dark, it was very.... interesting :D , but very beneficial.

a.