Hey earth dragon...

[Apprentice]

are u the teacher at the 8-step school in buffalo? the only one, or is there others? If so, i was considering joining that school, (that or hung gar)...if ya are, how often do your classes run n stuff? I think it'd be cool to be able to talk to my sifu online aswell :D well, are ya?

[EARTH DRAGON]

I am a 8 step teacher in buffalo, but there is also mike cimeno who doesnt have his own school right now but does offer classes in the mornings at the jewish center on delaware ave.

My school is located at 2198 elmwood 1 block south of kenmore ave. If you want stop in for a free class m-w-f 7:00-8:00pm just intruduce your self as apprentice.

just curious but you said you might join a hung gar school in buffalo? the only hung gar shifu in buffalo is my freind billy wong, ting fong wong from cantons son but his school closed up a while back.... where were you going to learn?

[Stacey]

http://www.8step.com/update.htm


whose got a real school?

[EARTH DRAGON]

I dont really think its neccessary to hang our federation business out the general public but Allow me to explain the update on the 8step website. Master shyun is forcing all his students who own schools to pay a fee $1,200 to be exact. If you do not pay the $1,200 you are not reconized as a contributing/participating branch of the H.Q.

I dont think that this is unfair but I am not able to pay this fee at the present time. I dont have an extra $1,200 laying around. Do you ?
So with that recent announcment to all KUNG FU USA'S I think like 11 schools have been on the update list as non- participating schools.

So active or not I do have the only actual school in N.Y.S the 2 other schools were kicked out of the federation and the school in hamburg was sued for breach of contract. There is a guy who teaches out of his basement but he never was certified to teach 8 step, and their is mike cimeno but again he doesnt own a school he just teaches classes in the mornings in the gym at the jewish center a couple days a week. So one way or the other it doesnt really matter to my students they are receiving the same information and instuction either way. And I dont have to charge my students more for lessons and turn my kwan into a
Mc dojo like a lot of schools do, with proceesings fees and lots of hidden costs.

let me ask you a question would it make any difference if your bank was a member of the national banking federation? yes or no

would it make a difference if you had to pay a fee becuse of it every time you did your transactions at that same branch?

[MasterPhil]

Lol, you crack me up every time you write! Keep it up!

[Robbie]

"let me ask you a question would it make any difference if your bank was a member of the national banking federation? yes or no "

Do you ever notice the little FDIC logo at your bank. Well it matters, a lot.

[Stacey]

It also matters that that 1200 continues your education and maintains standardization in medical and martial training.

You are 3/5th of a sifu under current standards. You couldn't even pass the national sifu test.


Sifu Cimino is a second dan sifu.

I suppose this doesn't matter because you have a "real school" and rub elbows with real sifus and give them presents. I suppose it doens't matter that your not a real sifu?


Your students may be getting the same material, but they are limited to your school and your knowlege. They will never get past 3rd gold with videotapes of other people doing joint locks.

Sifu Ciminos students have 20 years of education after they become authentic Sifus in both medical and martial aspects of the system. I suppose you don't tell them about the glass ceiling limiting them to your rudimentary knowlege?

You start really learning the system in the Sifu Camps. But you would need to learn joint locks and two man sets, and then their applications. Its ok, I'll fill you in because I pity you.

Holding the basket- Highblock,sun punch, steal, break elbow, holding the basket.

There...feel better, feel more like a real sifu? hahahhah

[nobody]

whoa, i come in here and theres all this hostility:rolleyes:

[MonkSanTe]

The Praying Mantis school in Hamburg, New York is completely capable of teaching 8 Step Praying Mantis as well as Plum Blossom Praying Mantis kung fu. Just because we are not affiliated with James Sun does not mean we are not a viable school to go to. You do have options in the area. I'm not interested in starting any arguments over anything on here, just letting you know.

[Apprentice]

the teacher was Norman C. Mandarino 4th degree black sash, direct disciple of Ting Fong Wong of Canton China...on Maryvale Dr.


I thought u were the teacher of 9400Main Cirnce...i dont beleive i seen yours in the phone book...

well, i may stop by sometime, but i may take the Hung Gar, they have classes 6days a week(what can i say? im eager, no offense to you or your school)...but i will definantly consider your school as well

[EARTH DRAGON]

Wow it looks like we have opened a can of worms here! first off I will respond to everyone in a respectful mannor even though they have chossen not to do the same!

robbie you said,
Do you ever notice the little FDIC logo at your bank. Well it matters, a lot.
maybe to you but metaphoriclly speaking paying fees for being a part of something is fine for the bank but what if that little logo was not on the wall? would it really matter to you? would you pay more for a product becuse it had a BBB better business bureal sticker on the window?

Stacy girl/guy?
I dont know who you are but obviously you are one of my freind jack skutnik's students, You dont know me becuse you wer'nt even a student of jacks when he invited me to do a seminar at the sayraville school,when me and sifuu dean stayed at his house, so you are what in the sash level and you mouth to dissrepsect me! you have a lot of nerve.

arent you the guy who claims to be a girl! I invite everyone to read his posts on the main board that it makes many statements about being a female....which is it ?

stacy you said..
You are 3/5th of a sifu under current standards. You couldn't even pass the national sifu test.

I was a sifu before their was such a thing as a national sifu test!and why would you say that I couldnt pass it? I know everthing that is taught in the system. And let me guess is this the test that now costs $1000 I hope you make it to that level and have to pay $1000 to test and how much is the sifu uniform now? I have one that was given to me for free by master shyun. you forget I lived with the man you only met him once at a seminar so please get yourfacts straight and keep your comments to your self.

stacy, you said.....
Sifu Cimino is a second dan sifu.
whats that 2/5?
so what your saying is he is a japanese degree of a chinese system ? come on ....I would like to respect what you say but obviously you cant agrue if you dont understand the correct termnology.

monke sante,
georges name is not even listed ever as a sifu on the update so I dont why your even getting into this argument, but one things for sure how can you possiblly advertise to teach plum blossom mantis when george has had a only a couple lessons! he surely is not qualified to teach any plum blossom. and by law not allowed to teach 8 step either. what are you guys learning? a little of this a little of that?

people are so quick to judge others, but if they take just a fraction of the time they spent critisizing others and took a good look at themselves this would be a better world. and definatly a much better martial arts forum chat board......... merry christmas everyone!!!!!!!!! your freind E.D

[Robbie]

Originally posted by EARTH DRAGON

robbie you said,
Do you ever notice the little FDIC logo at your bank. Well it matters, a lot.
maybe to you but metaphoriclly speaking paying fees for being a part of something is fine for the bank but what if that little logo was not on the wall? would it really matter to you? would you pay more for a product becuse it had a BBB better business bureal sticker on the window?


Perhaps my two sentences didn't convey my meaning well enough for you, or you just ignored it to continue arguing. I would not do business at a bank that wasn't FDIC insured, and I think most people in the USA feel the same way, it's called security.
The BBB exists to give people who have complaints about a business a place to report them and collectively make a difference about how honesly businesses are run. Being in good standing with the BBB means you haven't been screwing over your customers, giving me confidence that I will find good, or a least honest, service at your business. In a manner of speaking like asking people in the martial arts community about Chun Mo Do will let me know that most people avoid it, this gives me more information to go on before deciding on a school.
So to put it plainly enough even for you. Yes it matters to me.

[MonkSanTe]

Get your facts straight! Man, you sure do think you know about everything. Well, you don't. As far as judging people, as soon as the Hamburg school is brought up any where, you go off on your attempts to discredit and discount sifu Lisjak. Maybe the work of a jealous man? I think so! Look up the word narcissism, I think you suffer from that.

[EARTH DRAGON]

apprentice
Sorry I did forget about normy he is a freind of mine and I should have remembered that he teaches hung gar. the guy billy I talked about is ting fong wong son. His school closed down but norm still teaches at maryvalle school I think. A great guy and a great teacher. good luck in which ever path you choose.

Robbie, I do not wish to agrue with you simply becuse its pointless but remember you were the one who attacked me first, so I am simply defending.

you said In a manner of speaking like asking people in the martial arts community about Chun Mo Do will let me know that most people avoid it, this gives me more information to go on before deciding on a school.
So to put it plainly enough even for you. Yes it matters to me.

I am glad it matters to you but how much $ are they in to you so far?however we are not talking about banks we are talking about martial arts and franchise fee's and again just becuse I have not paid my $1,200 does not mean that I dont run a good school or I am not a good teacher. If anything It means that I dont feel like I have to make money from my students to impress them with a label. the federation incorporates lots of rules when you run schools under ACMAF and thats fine but simply enough I like to teach and not have to charge my students outrageous fees for nothing , so If that makes me a bad guy in your eyes oh well, but as far as my studetns go they are happy to know that they are recieving good quality instruction for a fraction of what your paying.

MONSANTE,
wer'nt you the one who came to my forum and started trouble talking about master shyun? think back and you will remember that you apologized to me for your comments. I accepted your apology and you went on your way. But now you jump in to this conversation and say you dont want to argue but yet you still do? I am confused
What my beef is with george is personal. I used to be freinds with him , heck he was my chiropracter and kung fu brother for a long time, but when he was kicked out of the federation he called everyone the anti christ and told us we were in a cult and would burn in hell, yet he was fine about it for the 12 years he was part of it but then he turned on me and everyone else in the federation. Simply out of jealousy fustration and anger.
Ask him about his top student mike cimeno who taught all his classes for free when he hurt his arm and then george went behind his back and stabbed him too!
george is not the born again christian that he claims to be or he would not do such things to people. So belive me I think I do know a lot! but this is water under the bridge and personal so I dont think that this board is the place to hang dirty laundry so lets stop agruing like kids and get on with our lives..... have a merry X-mas and a happy new year everyone.. your freind E.D

[Stacey]

Its just like the Guilds of Europe. Quality control and continuing education.

What happens when they know up to 3rd grade? Do you show them the secret videotapes you have? Then what? Do they take up karate? What about all your unstandardized material? Do your students really have a future in the system?

If the logo and name are so insignificant, then toss them in the trash. Make up your own style. If you truly get no benefit from the logo, from all the work that everyone else does to promote the system, then why hide the truth from your students and pose as a Sifu of 8 step, when you really arent?

This is why you attack me. This is why you rub elbows with everyone you can to gain some kind of recognition. "My friend Pan Choi" My friend so and so. "I gave him this and traveled here..blah blah blah.

Look, I think your a nice guy, and probably the most handsome Sifu from pictures I've seen, but you need to not bash other Sifus if you truley are above them.


Apprentice: You will learn far more from Either of them, then anyone else in the area, but with Cimino, you have a future in the system.

[jon]

I have nothing to do with this... Ive just been reading with interest.
That said im finding it a little odd that people are putting down ED for not having paid a fee.
If you think this somehow invalidated his knowledge, more fool you.
As for ED not being able to teach beyond a certain level.
Is that not really simply a matter for his students?
If they find a time when they dont have much else to learn, im sure they will leave and go elsewhere. Stacy I dont think they need your help.
Stacy one thing i will say... The way you present yourself is making you sound like a very nasty little personality.
If your commited to 8-step then stop airing there dirty laundry in public. This whole tread does nothing but harm for the style.
ED in my humble opinion the mark of a great teacher is to be passionate for there art and resolute in spreading it. You have that mark.

[nobody]

i personally dont see why having a 2nd gold mantis, is a bad thing. you are certified to teach at first gold. so whats the problem? by the time one reaches the time to test for his/her first gold, s/he would have to go and train with master sun anyway. stacy, the only thing your posts are making me think, is that you just want to discredit my sifu for various reasons, only you probably perceive as being valid. like jon said, i or any of my classmates need your help. if at the time, i do become a level where my sifu cant teach me anymore, then GREAT!!! that means i know a hell of a lot, and will go someplace else to learn what is left, without feeling bad, because i will know that i got the instruction i wanted. besides even IF i werent going to train with master sun, and for some odd reason ED tought me all he knew, he is a 2nd gold mantis, wouldnt that mean he could still teach me up to that level? in which case i would be a sifu anyway. get a grip stacy, you live in New Jersey, what do you care!!

[EARTH DRAGON]

Thanks jon for your kind words and neutrul opinon on this matter, It seesm as though there is a lot of polotics surrounding the creditiadation of the federation. You see when one person owns the system he can make any rule he wants to again which is fine. One of these rules is to pay lots of fees some up front some hidden. I have been a sifu way before these fees were incorporated into the federation. So now with all these newbies they are responsible for paying these fees as requirements to learn, so obviously they are jealous of me becuse I didnt have to. I lived with master shyun and he favored me in many ways becuse of sifu dean the guy who is responsible for the growth of thew federation. See none of these people who be here if it wasnT for him and he is one of my best freinds. You would be angry and jealous to if your father favored your brother over you (classic case)

Stacy, again I will be respectful in my reponse but I am starting to losing my patience with you and frankly I shouldnt bother explaining my self to such a dissrespectful student but I will....

I have been in the system for 11 years and have seen people come and go like your self so I really dont care what you think, but I plan on calling jack and having a talk with him about your dissrespectfulness. you dont know me and yet you judge me and have the odassity to tell me that I am barely a sifu just becuse I havent paid my $1,200 being a sifu is not just about money and the sooner you learn that the better off you will be.

[Stacey]

I can't beleive you have the gaul to place yourself above a real 2nd dan sifu because of the number of years you spent in the system learning nothing because of your own lack of initiative.

[Robbie]

Michael, you constantly bring up the money. For what you could be learning that is cheap. $1,200/year is $100/month, if you have only 20 students that would be $5 out of what you're charging them. They would see the benifites. Like the 2 person set you were asking about on KFO. I know you can't understand all your missing because you don't even know it exists, but you should be willing to look instead of telling your students you are teaching them 8step when all they can get by studing with you is basic gung fu and not have the opportunity to learn the heart of the system.

[EARTH DRAGON]

stacy, I dont think you get the full picture. I am a sifu and have the sifu certificate signed by master shyun to prove it. I also have a certificate that allows me to teach 8 step. If you would take your head out of your A** and read the updates it clearly states that these people have reached instructor level but are not active members.. why beacuse 11 people have not paid the fee to be active members. kung fu is not about money but latley with the closing of the school and the burning down of the HQ in SF master shyun if forced to make the members of the federation pay for his losses. its a shame that you are forced to pay such out ragoeus fees. mike cimeno paid $5,000 to become a sifu why? does it make it seem more worth it if the knowledge comes with a price tag? Obviously your jealousy speaks for you.

You seem to have a lot to say when you hide behind your keyboard and shoot your mouth off.... Tell me who you are tough guy whats your real name what rank? is jack your sifu? if you dont have the balls to answer me I will take what you say with a grain of salt for you really mean nothing to me........

[pebble]

To Apprentice
for Hung Gar from Master Wong
Black Dragon 2297 Main St Bflo
Golden Dragon 2756 Elmwood Kenmore (still open I hear)
Mandarin Kung Fu 777 Maryvale Chktg Sifu Norm
for Mantis
Krav Maga 8619 Main St. Wmsvl Sifu Steve
Secrets of Praying Mantis 265 Union Hmbg Sifu George
for Wing Chun
Wing Chun Kung Fu 3400 Monroe Ave Rochester Sifu Steve

[nobody]

question...why do you care? not to meantion the statement..."so and so knows more than you do." is the most absurd thing i have ever heard, how do you measure knowledge?

[Stacey]

I only care because he pretended to know more than SIfu Cimino.

How do I measure knowlege? I don't, Master Sun does. According to his regulations and his teaching, Sifu Cimino is the State Rep, and is authorized to teach, knows more and is Senior in rank and knowlege to Haley.

So it is absolutely absurd for Haley to start getting pretentious and insinuating that he is superior in any way, shape or form.

[EARTH DRAGON]

you know what's funny, I have a picture of mike cimeno when master shyun did a seminar at my school in 1997 and he was a yellow sash. Yes yellow sash the first sash you get when you learn 10 body coordinations, and now he is a sifu !I wonder how, I tell you how he paid for it $5,000 to be exact. Tell me how you can go from yellow sash to 2nd level in 3 years? It certainly wasnt earned, its impossible to learn all the material that fast. any ways why are so so stuck on mike you dont even know him?

And another thing, you talk about secret tapes, Is that why jack skutnik "your sifu" had to ask for a tape on the applications 2 nd level silver and the 108 health tai chi set becuse he didnt know it! yea thats right I saw the tape, its eric in san fran demonsrtating the applications with T.J stone. So please get your facts straight before you shoot off your mouth.

If you justify that paying more money gets you better kng fu then your the one whos pathetic.............

Ps are you are afraid to give your real name and rank or what? what do you have to hide?

[jon]

I cant belive your doing such a massive disservice to your style...
The proof is right here with me... I have nothing to do with 8-step and yet here i am reading all about your politics and finacial issues.
This quote really summed it up for me...
"YOur not special, you are pathetic. You can act like a saint and say that kung fu isn't about the money. Since when? Traditionally rich people got the best kung fu. When hasn't kung fu been about the money?"
Actualy stacey traditionally the people with best kung fu were... MONKS and gaurds... People who paid NOTHING for there training. Gaurds had to be good to protect there goal. Monks had unlimited time for training and the history of every monk that had gone before them. Neither pays money to learn. Your comment is exactly what is wrong with cma in westen socitey. Yes you can pay money for kung fu, that doesnt mean your sifu will respect you enough to make sure you actualy KNOW it. Think about it, once they have there money there only obligation is to show you what to do. Wether or not you can actualy do it isnt going to make a difference as the trade is done at that point.
When a teacher teaches for the love everything must be perfect and mastered BEFORE moving on.
There have been many famous fighters who only knew one form of a whole system. They just knew it very well.
Sounds to me like ED knows what he is talking about.
It also sounds like he has good morals as a teacher. Dispite what your saying Stacey, he has basicaly just tried to defend himself against this onslaught from you... If you dont like what he does my advice would be reach a stage where your good enough yourself not to have to care...
There are enough mcdojos around stop trying to turn a good school into one!
E.D I really feel for you on this one.:)

[Stacey]

ED, Relax you take things too seriously.

In life your adversaries are your teachers.


besides, its just kung fu.:D


I love you,



Stacey

[nobody]

...:confused:

[Apprentice]

thanx for the school listings, and ED, i respect you as a person, it wouldn't be bad studying under you....

1 question, dont knwo if you get this, but jes curious, would it be too much to study Hung Gar, AND 8-Step??? Do you think the two would confilict too much?

[EARTH DRAGON]

To be perfectly honest I dont think you should try to learn to much all at once. It wouldnt be fair to yourself and your training or the style. When you begin your journey on the path of martial arts you should walk that path and see where it leads you.But it is not wise to travel two paths at once. You may have a change of interest as you go along and discover that something differnt may appeal to you in different ways at diffrernt times. Some people spend a lot of time learning a hard style and then realize that they favor the soft side, and visa versa. My advice to you is try everthing out that you think you may be interested in and then ake a decision. only you know what feels right for you ! Good luck

[EARTH DRAGON]

I was going to repond to your last 2 posts but how can I ? I feel as though you are a little unstable in your actual feelings for not just me but yourself. I dont know if you are mad ,sad , angry, jealous, envious or in love! I find that maybe you should spend a little more time on understanding yourself and figuring out what you want out of life and stop worrying about what other people do with theirs. I wish you the best.

I did have a conversation with my freind Jack Skutnik your "supposesed" sifu from N.J and he assures me that none of his students would be that dissrespectful towards another person much less a sifu. But he said he would ask hem about the internet and who logs on and their screen names. This is all I have to go by seeing as you are afraid WILL NOT give me your real name and your school or teacher. I just hope that in the lessons you learn from whoever teaches you that you learn more about being a martial artist then how to kick and punch. For self dicipline and respect should be the first lesson learned!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good luck and merry X-mas to you and your family.... your freind E.D

[Stacey]

I'm sorry, your right.:(

[jon]

hehe I now belive totaly you are a female [im sure your terribly excited to hear this;) ]. You remind me a LOT of most of the girls ive ever been out with.

That said, if that was a serious appology... Good on you:D
You dont have to agree with E.D that would be going against your own beliefs. I just wouldnt recomend you using a public forum to discuss infighting.
Ive seen to many fools from my system make us look like children by squabling over who is superious to who. In the end its only your opinon that matters.

Apprentice
I wouldnt recomend you doing both Hung and 8-step either to be honest;) . My advice would be just do a few classes of each and then stick with the one that seems to suit your personality better.
Either way you cant go wrong, thats a mad choice either way your going to end out on top:D

[EARTH DRAGON]

Stacy , apology accepted

Jon, thank you freind for your understanding and supporting words.

merry X-mas to all and to all a good night

[jon]

Anytime:D
Merry X-mas, hope everyone stays healthy and enjoys there break:)

[Yung Apprentice]

ED , one question. You sound like you've been places and know ppl and you've always been very helpful when I ask questions. Do you happen to know anyone who teaches an external form of mantis here in Vegas or heard of anyone who does. I've heard of one so far, who knows 7 star and Tai mantis, but he only teaches the Tai mantis and I want to learn an external form of mantis.

[EARTH DRAGON]

I would be glad to help , however I do not know anyone in Las Vegas. I would suggest just trying a class in tai mantis and see if you like it! ask lots of questions and ask for a external demonstration. Whats funny most people spend a lot of time learning external, but then realize that internal is really where its at. People only realize this however after they have spent many years training and mature in their arts and advance in age. But for a younger guy internal is not as applealing. good luck in whatever you decide. your freind E.D