Pai Da Gung/Sam Sing Conditioning

[Dale Dugas]

Hey everyone,

I was hitting myself the other day as sometimes I dont have access to a partner who is willing to beat their arms against mine in the typical Pai Da Gung Sam Sing/3 Star Hit Drills you find a lot in the southern arts.

I have been doing this for a while and have wondered about what others do for medicinal aid afther the hitting is stopped and the soreness sets in.

I have used Royal Embrocation which is a Tiger Balm like oil which is great for achey muscles. After a few years I was given a formula for a jow which works even better than that.

What do people use for this training? Curious to see what people are using.

Anyone here use something else to hit their arms with other than a human partner?

Anyone think this type of training is stupid? If so tell me about it.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[fiercest tiger]

we use dit dar jow external and internal, pills, poultices, powers, oils, moxi, cupping, massage, energy healing, meditations!

injuries should be treated from inside out and outside in to really cure the injuries from 3 star, iron palm, or any conditioning. if not treated properly you will get fung sup, DAMPNESS OF THE BONE = ARTHRITIS.
buy some tin chut powder or pills and take this if you havent got any herbal medicine mad up. ask your herbalist also!!

hope this helps


FT:)

CHOP STICKS
RUBBER MALLET
WOODEN DUMMY
BAMBO OR STEEL ROLLER BAR
CLAW BAGS
WOODEN LOGS
IRON PALM
WALL BAG
YOUR OWN HAND
STREET POLE
TREE'S
CARS..LOL
FRIENDS:)

[Dale Dugas]

Thanks. I have a good herbalist and my training partner has a senior level Dit Da Doctor from Hong Kong as his mentor. I was curious to hear what others do in this situation.

Thanks for the reply FT. You seem to be the only one.

Peace,

Dale

[Ginger Fist]

same deal as f.t. listed ... tried it cold ... nothing ... not good at all ... striking bruised areas = miserable training time ... untreated bone bruises r the worse ... takes weeks 2 heal

[jon]

Yeah we bash LOTS of things to :rolleyes:
We use phone books for punching on to condition the fists. We use heavy sacks of sand for iron palm. We use a large vertical treated pine log for both 3 star blocking and tiger claw practice.
There are several other things to use in nature but there kinda a trade secret in my style:D
I also once had to punch a phone book attached to a tree 1000 times hard as possible in one sitting, if a punch wasnt full force it wasnt counted.
We also use iron rings.
We use Dit Da although im not dead sure whats in it.
The only things i know for sure about it...
1 its like liquid and smells almost like brandy
2 it works ammazingly well
3 it contains the bark of a certain hard to find tree
4 it doenst contain any poison or illegal ingrediants which is a nice change
5 its a bit of a trade secret in my style, only my sifu knows how to make it and it takes some time to distill [def has alchol in it] and cure. Seems to get better over time.

Its a good Jow though and stops the knuckles from bleeding so eaisly and also helps PREVENT bruises which is unusual as most simply fix them.

[Paul]

We hit bags full of gravel, we have buckets of pebbles for thrusting the fingers into and have a few other things also.

I've done the 3 star hit before, at my latest school we do something different. One person throws punches low, medium, high. The other person chop blocks. It hurts just as much as the 3 star hit.

I just use dit da jow and say holy crap my forearms are bruised up.

[Yum Cha]

I agree, FT has the "good oil" pardon the pun <snicker>.

One suggestion, never hit un-padded metal, the only training no-no.

See http://aaron.net.au/kfo for Sifu's commercial version of Dit Dar Jaw. He uses Pepermint oil instead of Brandy for skin sensitivity issues.

[triskellin]

hi yummy, my mum bought that oil! i think it works quite well, smells better than the clear kwan loong one that's for sure. :) i haven't tried it on my bruises though, just for muscular pain... heats up alot faster than the others out there. oils smell too chinese for me though, i don't like stepping out in public having BO like an asian. :eek: :D

[Yum Cha]

Yes :D :D :D Pretty pepperminty! Not that I'd call it Asian BO! Besides, I thought Asians didn't have BO!! :D :D :D

Heats up quickly, that's for sure. Its supposed to work for muscle pain as well as bruises. Old guys like me, we like that. (Read: More muscle pain than bruising.) Its rather unique from my experience, one of Sifu's "secrets."

Nothing is quite as bad as those poltices though, for really bad injuries....you feel like making curry soup with them when you're done. And don't even think about not changing the bed sheets...

Nice new pix on your website, who's that cutie?? ;)

[strangecaptain]

I hear arthiritis is the result of not using it. It seems that peppermint oil would have one problem though. Without that... memorable aroma, how will our kung fu cologne attract all the ladies.;)

[Yum Cha]

Remember "Hai Karate?" this is "Ei Yah Kung Fu" :D

It does wear off after about 10 minutes... Just long enough to clean your sinuses....:D

Knocks off that Beer smell if you've had a few cleansing ales after training. ;)

You know, just to re-hydrate....

[triskellin]

what are poltices? i've got my sifu's ddj for bruises, and also this green ointment that looks like metholatum... the brand is called kantinko, but do NOT put it anywhere near ur nose, eyes or mouth! i made the mistake of putting it under my nose when i had a cold, and it stung for about 15min. then 2 weeks later my mum told me it was for aches and bruises! i'dnever seen a gel for aches and bruises, so pretty interesting stuff.

yummy: danny? he's 15 and been training for a bit over a yr. he is either abnormal or on steroids, cause either way he can beat the crap out of ppl twice his size and age. he's a little too young for u though isn't he? ;) :D j/k!

[Yum Cha]

Cheeky little girl!

You look good in the pix, your site is shaping up nicely. Are the pix of Sifu Chan new too?

The poltices are those gooey mixes that are like hot curry paste, you wrap them onto a bad bruise or joint injury and leave them on for 24 hours.

FT! What are those things called "Goo Dawn Hot"? "Smel lei Pas Te"? something like that??

They sure as shyte work! Bloody oath!

[fiercest tiger]

yum cha,

i also bought your sifu's medicated rubbing oil as you know, for muscular aches its good but for external conditioning i wouldnt recomend it for that but its got a nice peppermint and clove smell too.

your question was that on the poultices / plasters? whats the names for them? In ykm hongkong we use 2 plasters that do everything from recent to old injuries simply called yut ho yee ho or number 1 and number 2 powder. added would be tin chut, or they would have used tiger bone back in the day!!

They do have a name if you really want it?

you can buy a formula called gum wong sun already made in chinatown it works ok, but ykm medicine is pretty famous in hongkong made by si batt har kwok cheung. He would have people lined up and out the door of his building waiting for him after we trained of a morning!

There is cold medicine as well and mixed with egg white for protien, and honey for anti bacterial properties too. It all depends on the injury and what to look for when diagnosing, im no specialist in that only basic dit dar from Grandmaster Har certified not hongkong TCM or DIT DAR MEDICINE COLLEGE.

soups, teas, tonics, pills all play a roll in kung fu training for health, longeivity, healing,blood and chi formulas are all part of the internal ykm training. :)

sorry for rambling on if thats the answer you where after??:D

[Dale Dugas]

FT,

its funny that there are many people out there think they can hit themselves or condition their arms/palms/hands/shins and NOT use any kind of medicine. I was taught there are two kinds, external(which consist of different liniments, pastes, poltices, etc..) and then an internal tonic to make sure qi, blood, and lymph are flowing properly.

Let me tell you it tastes like arse...But Im not one to try and whack myself around and not use it as some say its all in your mind. Fools they be.

I have seen some ugly examples in Japan where people hit their hands with hammers(mostly Kyokushinkai/Mas Oyama Karate) and never used any jow. Talk about paying for it in the end. Those people are lucky enough to be able to open and close their hands. Yikes!

I have an old article that a friend recently sent to me from Real Kung Fu(or another magazine of that type) which had a great article about a famous Lama-pai sifu who was also a Dit da specialist. Good article that gave some good examples of Tui-na.

Thanks again.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[triskellin]

yummy: :o the pics of my sifu are semi-new, taken at the beginning of this yr.

i don't use your sifu's oil for bruises cause i just got it recently, and before i'd apply my sifu's ddj right after training, then use the kwan loong oil for the next few days at home. i haven't gotten any major bruises recently, so i'll try it next time i do! :p

dale: well i have friends who've been quite hardcore with their sam sing, but they never used any ddj. i asked them about it, and they shrugged it off saying "we've been doing it for years, it doesn't hurt us anymore." ego thing y'know, they didn't seem to care when i said it could be bad for them later on in life. :rolleyes: the difference between impressing and stupidity isn't taken into consideration i guess.

[Dale Dugas]

I have seen a number of people who have ruined their bodies and their hands by beating them against things and not using any medicine to counteract serious threats to health.

The least of all is the threat of blood clots that can detach and then travel to your brain, your lung, your heart and kill you.

You can get a blood clot when you whack yourself too hard and cause a hematoma to form.

Funny that most people think a bruise is something to be proud of and you should shrug off the pain and be a "man" about it(apologies to all you ladies).

I have friends who are my age(35) who have serious arthritis due to pushing way to hard and training incorrectly for their sport. This is not just an issue in martial arts circles, but for all sports which involve some sort of contact.

You should be at least massaging the bruised limb in hot water and then treat with a rub down with alcohol. Remember the boxers who get a rub down after they fight or workout. Seems people have forgotten what that was meant for. To me it was to get the bruises reabsorbed and move the lactic acid out to help quicken healing time.

Ok, enough for now. Later, going to go play in the snow that is falling in Boston as I write this.

peace,

Dale

[fiercest tiger]

Karate can be bad for your body in many ways, all the beating as you said already with no jow, also there san chin kata the breath is forced, which in ykm and many other arts is wrong.

i think ykm has been developed really wellas medicine, healing methods and fighting are all in it! A teacher should be able to heal his students and teach them to heal also, there is nothing better then healing someone and seeing a smile on there face it makes your day.:D

for kung fu training there is many soups and teas that help build and store chi, remember you can also deplete chi when practising kung fu! i remember my sifu had rice and a jook/soup ready so when you come down to train you can stop and have some broth and something to eat.

My Sifu Master Leung Cheung was very well known in china town for his dit dar medicine and most of his money came from dit dar. i remember a time when i was training in the kwoon and we carried a young girl up the stairs to sifu, she was hit by a bus and her knee was dislocated, she was screeming and it was so painful. i stood there and watch as he asked her about one of his pictures on the wall, as she looked behind to see it he snapped the knee back in properly and it was all over for her. Hahaha his methods was good:) he put a poltice on and strapped it up and gave her a lolly..lol didnt charge her, and it showed that he was a beautiful person and fantastic healer!


can i get a copy of that tuin na? i like to collect that type of info, if you can please if not no probs! :)

cya
FT

[Yum Cha]

OK, now you got to tell us, what makes a good Dit Dar Jau? You think Sifu's isn't good for conditioning, just muscle aches, why? What are the differences? Or is it just through your experience? Honestly, I value you opinion, and I am interested.

Circulation is the key, medicine without massage is much less effective, agreed?

I know his is done with Peppermint and clove oil, but my understanding is that is to add muscular relief to the formula, instead of using the "wine" alone, making it a premium formula. Smelly, but premium.

I reckon he should make two versions, but he said the "wine" version gives more people allergic reactions, and being a commercial product, he is hesitant.

I have a bottle of his regular Dit Dar Jau as well. I also have a tiny bit of the old stuff from Sifu Cheung Leung I keep as a momento. I too remember broken people being brought up to Sifu Cheung Leung for healing in the old days... Pretty freaky sometimes. He patched me up a couple of times too.

In all honesty though, I don't bruise myself up that much these days, so I haven't thoroughly tested it, and the injuries I do get, are more like back ache, that lovely toe joint ache (hows yours?) and other deeper muscular aches, for which it works a charm.

As opium is frowned upon these days, I can't really treat them in the traditional manner....

You know, his medical sifu is the Department head at the University of Guangzhou herbal medicine school. He spent 5 years at the hospital there studying with him, he has the certificates.

I know about the Tiger bone, many families had tiger bones that they handed down for generations, I believe.

Just a note, remember crazy Sifu Chan, the monk from the Temple in Glebe? I just discovered I have him on tape doing Baqua Stick, hand and -get this- his giant screwdriver form...

Freaky....

[fiercest tiger]

I think that oil based linements are for massage deep muscle and tissue damage. Helps the nervous system too!

ykm has also a very good oil i have a bottle of it at the kwoon, grandmaster har kwok cheung sells dit dar jow, fung sup jau, pills etc he is pretty known for his medicne handed down from his father from monk dit yun!

your sifu's oil linement is good i didnt say bad, only i wouldnt use it for conditioning! :) ykm has different jau's and oil based linements for allergic reactions so thats why there are so many formulas, even water based washes for iron palm as a cheap but effective formula. The more potent the herbs the more expensive so you must have cheap and expensive formulas but work the same way. may take a little longer to heal with cheaper though!!

my foot is getting alittle better, i have a student of mine work on it after every class, i really need to rest it basically!

later:D

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

FT

"ykm has also a very good oil i have a bottle of it at the kwoon, grandmaster har kwok cheung sells dit dar jow, fung sup jau, pills etc he is pretty known for his medicne handed down from his father from monk dit yun!"

How many generations has this bottle of medicine been passed down. It must be a huge bottle, probably you have a vet of this ykm medicine at the back of your kwoon. Otherswise, it would have been used up by the many students over the 100s of years who've walked through the door.

Assuming that ykm didn't originate in Australia, how did you get this vat / barrel or whatever you call it through customs?

What are the active ingredients of ykm dit dar and how does it compare with western medicine?

[Shaolin-Akira]

i am getting a wing chun dummy and some other conditioning stuff aswell for my home use, can someone gimme some links to sites where i can get some good medicence? im kinda new to home training, when i train at my school i use oils and stuff that my sifu tells me to put on but im not to sure what the names are.. so can somone gimme maby a couple links? thnx! =)

[Buby]

Your funny!:rolleyes:

So where is the YKM school in Jeresy?


Shaolin - Check this link out.http://www.kumojiujitsu.com/jow_recipe.html

Buby

[fiercest tiger]

Man what is your problem? was you dropped on your head when you were born..lol

Well there is no animal parts or illegal substances in our jows any more!

i wont tell you our recipe, although i may share one in the coming weeks on my website for people that hasnt got one and it may help them.

:)

[Ginger Fist]

Man what is your problem? was you dropped on your head when you were born..lol

--naw bro' ... ego was breech birth baby & had sh*it rammed up in2 his head ... it's still there ... the sh*it in the head

i wont tell you our recipe, ...

--'ol ego's a northern guy ... he says ... y would he want any of that 'ol, cruddy, weak, farmer southern stuff?

although i may share one in the coming weeks on my website for people that hasnt got one and it may help them.

--kewl beans dude!!! very nice of u 2 do this ... wonder how long be4 it shows up on ego's site ... as a northern formula

[fiercest tiger]

LOL:D

Well anything can be absorbed into nothern kung fu, gay mardigra started there, herpies, aids, he has a point!

maybe he is right?:)

[Ginger Fist]

Well anything can be absorbed into nothern kung fu, gay mardigra started there, herpies, aids, he has a point!

--i went 2 his web page & u r right ... he does have a point ... i think if he combed his hair different his point wouldn't show so much ... from the pics he didn't absorb any skill ... maybe he is just a nonabsorbant kinda dude

maybe he is right?

--pity that ... cuz he should b left ... left out of any conversation about kungfu