Respecting other styles

[logic]

I do respect other styles, and believe the individuals dedication of that style is what should be respected.

On that note.
I have had a run in with a girl I know.She does tai bow from video tapes she says.(Now I don't think I consider tai bow a Martial Art.)But anyway I didn't tell her that, and someone told her that I know Kung Fu and Karate.Well she wouldn't hear of it.Her tai bow was the best art hands down, it could beat any other art with no problem.I started Laughing, and she said it's the truth.I said show me proof.Then I said you don't know what your talking about.She said, oh,and you do?I said well, I have 8 1/2 years of shorin ryu Karate some T.K.D. 3 1/2 years of Kung Fu and Tai Chi, 2 years of boxing and a little ne-waza grappling.Over all 20 years experience.Then I said your tai bow ain't worth sh!t on the street or anywhere else for that matter.

Then her one track mind started to argue with me.
(Then I thought to myself what the hell am I doing)
So I looked at her and said What Ever, and didn't respond to her anymore.

So whats the moral of the story?
I read this somewhere about 5 years ago.--It goes

A true practitioner of the arts will observe the courtesy,integrity,perseverance,self control and an indominatable spirit.Therefore,if one is in harmony with the body, mind and spirit,they will realize there is more to the Arts than just punches,blocks and kicks.

P.S.
tai bow isn't a M.A. It's a good cardio workout,Thats it.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Great story logic, I agree with you totally, Its such a shame that people are so quick to judge others but yet have not even begun to check themselves. I once had a conversation with a 4 th degree TKD black belt when we were sitting together judging a tournament. I said how long have you been doing TKD he said 9 years. I replied havent you found anyonther stlye better than TKD that you wanted to try? he said no ... I looked puzzled and said why? he said becuse I like TKD.........

Some people like coffee some people like tea but it doesnt mean their wrong somply becuse they dont like what we do........

[Starchaser107]

On the subject of respecting other arts , I think everyone has thier own martial path, and the end result is usually the same if the practicioner is dedicated. I see no point in trying to dismiss an art because its not from China just because I do CMA. I also believe everything has something to offer , and who am I to say something is of no use , just because I havent been fully exposed to it.
I think sometimes people take on a spirit of cameraderie to the extreme and although they are being patriotic to thier style they are also being prejudiced and biggoted to others. I think this is a sign of limited thinking. But people will be people.

With that said ... why do these women insist on calling tae bo a martial art. The same frikkin thing happens to me in converation , its known I've been doing CMA for a few years now, and I'll be speaking to some girl I know and they'll be like " I study Tae Bo"

M'kay ... now how does a rational martial artist react to this comment... I just say okay , and leave it up to some other educated human to relay the fact that Tae Bo isnt really a martial art per se.
Billy Blanks on the other hand might be an accomplished martial artist , but to go as far as saying Tae Bo is a Martial Art , that might be a bit much, I agree good exercise but thats as far as it goes. To make it worse these adorable people learn from tape.
Could be my prejudice but , Egads man !!! get a grip on reality!

[Mr Nunchaku]

Very good topic. It is very important to respect all martial arts. There is no greatest martial art; it is all up to the individual. One art may be great for someone but not for someone else. All martial arts have their weanesses but truly no art is better than another.

Earth Dragon, no offense, but you shouldn't ask someone if they have found a BETTER martial art than the one they study. How do you answer that? If you believe that another art is better than the one you take wouldn't you quit what you are taking and go study it? He believes TKD is what works for him. And it must be if he has been in it for that long. Let me ask you, Earth Dragon. Why haven't you found a better martial art than the one you are taking? Don't answer this of course. I'm just making a point. Again, I mean no offense.

It's easy to say that this is better than that, but that is really being close minded. I'm not accusing anyone of doing this, mind you. I just wanted to say that.

[Kristoffer]

Try too learn ONE martial art good.. before quit completly and go do something else! Waste of time.. Atleast 5-10 years before doing other.. h.ell but if u have trained for 10 years.. why bother switching? stupid. What u should do however is to "dip your hands" in alot of other ma,,, not to LEARN but to find something that u can use in your style. Dedication and hard work for a LONG time is what makes a good martial artists. There is no way around it and there are no shortcuts. Want to be good? Or s.hit? Or a sifu? Its all up to YOU. And remember, there is no such thing as a genuine second time. So if your doing it then why not do your BEST at it?

ugh,, Now go train u bum!

[No_Know]

Some go to forms class for a cardio workout.

People here say hit the heavy bag. Tae bo people can do that.

They go over no nonsense techniques repeatedly. They do this for speed and endurance. That could be converted to power and accuracy.

Some go into martial arts with nearly no if any experience. Tae bo teach what it's like to Move and punch and kick, which puts some ahead of those who just sgn-up.

very whatever.

[DelicateSound]

Tai-bo ain't no martial art, cause it doesn't teach you how to FIGHT. It may tech you how to kick, or punch, but these are just movements. It's how you implement these that makes it a MA.

However, on the plus side, you do build fitness etc. so you do get some of the benefits you'd get from a MA.

Think of Tae Bo as a fitness workout. Or Martial Arts for people who are scared of Martial Arts.

[Mr Nunchaku]

I agree with you, Kristoffer, completely.

As for tae bo. Tae bo does not teach you how to punch or kick. Tae bo makes you move your arms and legs in a way that is good exercise.

[straight blast]

I respect most Martial Arts.
But not f**king Shintaido.
And Tae Bo isn't a Martial Art.
It's a cardio workout for ****'s sake.
Next time someone starts raving to me about their "Tae Bo" skill I'm going to do something different to them. Normally I let it go but if they get ****y I spar them. Once is always enough.
But from now on I'm going to tell them that I take exercise bike & punch while I cycle.
Should do it for a MA style, ya reckon?

[MonkeySlap Too]

Being polite, and deffering from conflict with the uneducated or even the mentally deficient should not be confused with respect.

I am affable, friendly and courteous to all (when I'm not joking around or asked for an honest debate), but I there are plenty of arts I have no respect for. Looking at thier training methods, the results (students) and other things lead me to think that there is plenty of garbage out there, and if you are practicing garbage, you don't know it, because you do not know any better.

While there is more good stuff available than ever before, there is even more crap. Crap can be defined by reinforced lies. If you know what you are training and why, you are probably okay. For instance - if you say you do real Shaolin, and you can win fights with it against skilled oponents - you are probably doing Shaolin. If not, forget about it. You've been lied to and fooled. As a martial artist, it is your duty to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your schools training methodology, doctrine, strategy and tactics. If you don't understand what I am saying, I'd start doubting what your doing.

I don't think you can say 'all arts are equal'. They are not. But we can all be nice to each other.

[SevenStar]

Women and the uninitiated consider it a MA because they see what looks like punching and kicking. Not only that, but for years people have been hyping cardio kickboxing and aerboxing by saying that you are learning how to defend yorself while getting fit at the same time.

That being said, however, I think No_Know is on to something. they do practice techs repeatedly. I'd venture to say that some one dedicated to a cardio kickboxing class practices techs with more repetition than many MA we know - none of us on KFO of course - the difference is that nobody is correcting the tae bo people. They are allowed to punch and kick sloppily because the obhective is not good technique, but constant movement. If they received corrections and worked technique, they could learn how to defend themselves. Many people on this forum don't consider boxing and kickboxing as MA, but you can't deny that they still have the ability to defend themselves, and in many cases, train harder than the more traditional MA. Who knows, maybe you can do the same with tae bo.

[MonkeySlap Too]

As one who had a boxing gym in his kwoon, I gotta agree. But the difference between say, Tai Bo and Thai Boxing ;) is pretty considerable. But I see that same knowledge gap between arts that are held in the public eye to be 'equals' - and certainly are not.

But, I think the more importasnt point SEven Star is making, is that the training methodology most MA apply really doesn't get the reps in you need to learn how to fight.

And he's right.

[Paul]

I seem to remember someone trying to combine tae bo with pressure point fighting a while back. I'm thinking it was that Dillman guy's wife or something like that.

from my experiences looking for quality martial arts instruction it seems that a lot schools don't spar or teach application, how are they better than tae bo? maybe the moves look cooler.

[rubthebuddha]

i remember an add when that ******* blonde marketing chick was touting tae bo, saying the name came from two sources:

bo was from boxing, and tae is the japanese word for kick.

anyone want to take this one? :mad:


as far as tae bo being an MA? no way in hell. to me, martial arts have one or both of the following as their primary raison d'etre:

1. learn to fight
2. better the person through respect learned and given, hard work, dilligence, patience and often meditation

through tae bo, you get the following:

1. a good workout if you bother to work
2. a delusional acceptance of purple ankle warmers and tights

does that seem all that MA-ish to you?

didn't think so. at least MAists have some idea how to defend themselves at least in theory when they leave class. tae bo barely teaches you how to throw your leg up in the air. does it teach you contact points on the foot/shin, targets on the body, hip rotation, etc.?

again, didn't thing so.

anyone ever actually been challenged by a tae bo "fighter" and had the free time to bother with it?

[Narmer]

Here in Australia the Tae Bo thing isn't quite as big as I believe it is in the states, but I still know some people doing either it or "boxercise". I have no doubt that these things can make people fitter, and possibly make some martial artists better. The only problem I see is when people start saying that they do Tae Bo and now they can defend themselves on the street.

I think it's dangerous to give people the delusion that they are capable fighters, when all they are is 'fit'. And that's what Tae Bo does. Tae Bo is about fitness, not fighting, how can you learn to fight without ever learning applications, and preferably some sparring?

Is the belief in Tae Bo as an MA providing a false sense of security for those who train only in it, without any other martial art?:confused:

[xiong]

I have to agree that Tae Bo is not a martial art for the reasons stated above, but I think that some people also get a false sense of security in their real martial arts classes.

What I mean is I think people get a false sense of being able to defend themselves when they don't spar very much or spar only for point sparring in tournaments. I myself may fall into that category.

So as far as fighting and self defense go, just because you study a "real" martial art you may not be putting the effort into it to really succeed.

Now that I typed this it's looking like a stupid post, most of you on this forum appear to be pretty hardcore. Sorry thought I really had something to add.

In conclusion Tae Bo is a fitness program.

[Kristoffer]

U should respect other MA but sence tae bo is NOT a martial art.. You dont need to respect it!! :D

[taijiquan_student]

Tae Bo really does give a lot of people (mostly women) a false sense of security and make them think they are studying a martial art, regardless of how good a martial artist Billy Blanks is. Quick Tae Bo story:
A senior student at my school was at a party one saturday night, which was just after our sat. morning/afternoon sparring class(full contact, few rules), so he was kinda revved up. There was this young chick in her 20's, stereotypical Tae Bo blonde, you know. She was bragging about all her tae bo and how she could defend herself against anything. This senior student, who has a habit of always speaking his mind, told her, "Lady, you don't know ****". She just looked dumbfounded for a second, then said, "Well, I guess I'll just get another tape".
Pretty sad.

[Satanachia]

Watching the Tae Bo infomercial in australia here...

Why are the Tae Bo people wearing boxing wraps if they aren't hitting anything?

And no, Tae Bo is not a martial art. And it sure as hell won't condition your hands or shins, or let you know what its like to take a hit, or what its like to go up against another live person.

[Brad]

All Taebo does is take one aspect of a martial art(I suppose kickboxing) and uses that to enhance people's health. Kind of like if someone just practices taiji 24 form for health without ever going into push hands, sparring, or anything else other than the basic form. I really didn't realize that so many people actualy believe Taebo teaches good self defence. So far everyone
I've ever met who's done Taebo were very well aware of this. Maybe warning labels should be required for the vid. boxes.

[jon]

For all your insults about Tae Bo... I challenge you all...
The match will take place at my local gym in the front window, so all can bear witness to your distruction. I hold a 10th degree black belt and can even kick my own ass... Litteraly. I also weild an excersize bike weapon. Dont even get my started on what i can do with a walkman!
Spandex attire and disco music are BYO!
JUST NO ONE TOUCH MY HAIR!!!

[shaolinboxer]

Interesting. I have a lady friend who studies a bit of Tae Bo, and last night while play sparring she split open her husband's chin.

If you read interviews with top NHB competitors, they will describe how important endurance is in their training. I have trianed with many kickboxers, and they have adapted cardio kickboxing as part of their routines to keep up their stamina (and to increase school enrollment ;) ).

I do not think Tae Bo can be dismissed completely as a martial art. It enhances coordianation, cardivascular and muscular condition, and teaches basic techniqes and combinations. Often Tae Bo instructors work in focus mit work into their classes as well, and it serves as a launching pad for people who are interested in MA but have been raised on a gym/fitness mentality.

Although there is no sparring, I feel that sparring is a tradeoff. You do indeed learn to exchange blows, but you are still bound by a limited range of attacks. Sparring should make you more secure in you techniques, but it also creates an illusion of preparedness that can be dangerous.

Tae Bo has made martial arts available to thousands of people who had never considered martial arts or who were araid to try it. It gives people health, confidence, coordination, and strength and deserves to be considered a martial art.

[Budokan]

Tae bo is dangerous because it's giving women a false sense of security. It's a good cardiovascular exercise but it ain't martial arts--they don't seem to understand that. Too many people who practice tae bo appear to believe that just because they're kicking and punching air they're doing MA. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Still, it gets the women and the pink flames out of the house--off their tails and away from the couch and Oprah--so it can't be all bad. It's just bad if you think it can be used for self-defense purposes, as so many of them mistakenly do.

I also agree those tae bo commercials are a real hoot. If ever you feel the need to laugh, then take a look at one...

[myosimka]

let's be fair. By that criterion, traditional MA are dangerous as well. I know plenty of MA students with false senses of security. In fact, most of the people I know studying MA think they can defend themselves now. And the bulk of these are people that go to class 2-3 nights a week for an hour and don't train on their own. Personally I think that my style can be very effective if trained hard and consistently. Doesn't mean that everyone who goes to class can defend themselves but I definitely have seen some egos in there. Especially among the 1-3 year students. Newbies know better and long time students know better(usually)

That being said... anything that doesn't involve any contact is not a MA. Period. If you have never hit a person or been hit by one(Or wrestled, chisao-ed, kicked...) then I don't really think you can call it MA. And bagwork(which some Tae Bo classes have) isn't the same. Bagwork is important but it's still not hitting a person. Doesn't mean it can't be useful in self-defense or fighting and I think Tae Bo is better than nothing and can be useful. Perfect example on that, weights. I know a number of guys who don't do MA who I'd definitely avoid in a dark alley because their bicep measurement is about the same as my quadricep and they can bench press well over my body weight while carrying on a conversation. But no, it's not MA. So, delving into the bizarre hypotheticals so common here: If there were 2 twins and they had lived exactly the same life but one did Tae Bo for 3 years while the other played the guitar, I'd put money on the Tae Bo one in a fight. But then again I just hate musicians. *******s can show off their skills at a party without looking ridiculous. Plus it impresses the chicks. **** them.

[Budokan]

Hm. TCC doesn't do all that much violent body contact, not usually anyway, and it's a martial art. Dunno.

[Logan]

I completely agree that you should respect other styles and arts. I had a similar run in with a karate student a few weeks ago.

He was so stubborn he believed and tried to convince me that traditional kung fu was based on karate and not the other way around! Hell, I asked him if he knew about Boudhidarma and the Shaolin temple and he knew nothing about it.

It's sad that after so many years of training (i think he was brown belt), he hasn't even spent a second researching history into different arts then his own.

Logan

[myosimka]

Didn't say it had to be violent but if you've never done pushhands and actually been pushed off balance or some drill similar to chisao then I don't think your practicing Tai Chi as a martial art either. Learning just the forms in Tai Chi(which some people do) and no contact exercises is just dance class to me. For that matter, some of the best aikidoka I know are very gentle but they are using contact. Even if light, fluid and not painful.

I know. I'm a heathen.

[MonkeySlap Too]

You live in a heath?

[Mutant]

Its about respecting PEOPLE, not just particular MAs.

So what if someone doenst have the experience or wisdom to realize that their particular school or style is deficient, lacking, etc, besides its all relative, nobodies perfect. Everyone has to start somewhere and to the uninitiated, it can be hard to distinguish quality training from cr@p. But the one thing in common is that theyre working to improve themselves. If theyre delusional with an attitude then they probably lost some of my respect anyway, but not because they may have choosen a poor curriculum out of ignorance.

That said, no, tae-bo is NOT a MA although it does have MA-like movements that someone who doenst know could easily mistake. They jump and flail their arms and legs but are not fine-tuned or corrected and have no context for what they learn. They may in some cases have an advantage over a MArtist who was exposed to some good stuff but who is lazy, out of shape and doesnt train hard. If they have some natural fighing talent then they might be tougher than someone without...

But iv'e seen 'traditional' schools (someone's watered down idea of what once may have had merit) like this too, which can just as easily build false sense of accomplishment and safety, which can be dangerous. But i guess being in shape for them is better than not, and at least theyve begun a journey which could lead them to quality material if they stick with it and use their brains.

If theyre a good person I won't disresptect their training and may make suggestions and engage in a subtle or not-so-subtle debate that may lead them to analize their training and decide for themselves.

If they happen to be someone that I can't respect then I'll either drop it cause i don;t care if they ever figure it out and probably hope they never do...or just tell them they s#ck!