odd (vs. even) number of punches

[Novox77]

I was once told that you should punch in flurries of odd numbers. This means that if you were doing sets of chain punch flurries, each flurry should be either 3, 5, 7, etc. The reason for this was that your last punch in a flurry is always the strongest, so if you did even number of punches in a flurry, the same arm would always be punching the "hardest" and over time, you develop an imbalance in strengths. Opinions?

[OdderMensch]

you had to punch in prime number? 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, ect. i hear the old masters could do maybe 7823 or 7829.

[anerlich]

The reason for this was that your last punch in a flurry is always the strongest, so if you did even number of punches in a flurry, the same arm would always be punching the "hardest" and over time, you develop an imbalance in strengths.

Why is the last punch always the strongest? On what evidence is this assertion based? Most boxers do zillions more jabs with the lead than anything else in training, but the rear (cross) is usually the stronger hand.

You could still do even numbers of punches in a flurry, and by starting with alternate arms, end up with alternate arms each time. This will happen whether you choose odd or even numbers, provided you start with the opposite side each time.

[Novox77]

when you do a chain punch flurry on a wall bag or focus mitt, you'll notice that you give the last punch a bit more oomph. Especially if you are trying to work on the speed of your flurry. If you have fancy equipment at your school, you can see it on a punching meter. Also remember that our shoulders are square to the opponent when we chain punch, so both arms are applying the same type of punch to the opponent. The boxer's jab and rear attack are very different to each other (in purpose and in muscle recruitment), and cannot be compared to chain punching.

If you punch an even number of times, you're forced to switch sides, as you mentioned, to prevent the imbalance. But that really screws up your rhythm if you have to switch your man sau and wu sau hands between every flurry.


OdderMensch: the prime numbers sound interesting. With the exception of 2, all of them are odd numbers. Do you have any insight why they only stuck to prime numbers?

[Gluteus Maximus]

Surely there are some mathematicians out there who can shed more light on this.

What about designing an equation for it? That might help to eliminate any confusion.

[old jong]

Maybe whe should learn to take punches one at the times;)

[Gluteus Maximus]

Originally posted by old jong
Maybe whe should learn to take punches one at the times;)

Great idea! You mean kind of like positive integers?

If a punch is only partly completed, could it be considered as a fraction though? :confused:

[old jong]

I really meanned focussing on every punch. BTW, I have seen "fraction" punches when guys are trying to "chain punch" too fast.;)

[anerlich]

If you punch an even number of times, you're forced to switch sides, as you mentioned, to prevent the imbalance. But that really screws up your rhythm if you have to switch your man sau and wu sau hands between every flurry.

So do like 10 (20,100,1000) on one side, then the same number on the other. Or do all of one session on one side, then all the next on the other. Obviously, you don't have to switch sides between every flurry.

when you do a chain punch flurry on a wall bag or focus mitt, you'll notice that you give the last punch a bit more oomph. Especially if you are trying to work on the speed of your flurry. If you have fancy equipment at your school, you can see it on a punching meter.

What sort of "punching meter" do you have that can measure and store the relative impact of each punch in a flurry of punches? I've not heard of such a thing, but am willing to be educated.

[relax]

Originally posted by anerlich
[I]
What sort of "punching meter" do you have that can measure and store the relative impact of each punch in a flurry of punches? I've not heard of such a thing, but am willing to be educated.

You never so rocky X? where DRAGO the big russian guy punches this big meter and it showed like 150 or something

don't know if you can get those meters for cheap though :)

[anerlich]

relax:

I like your thinking, but from memory even Dolph/Ivan only hit the thing once in the film (Rocky IV, wasn't it?) each time his power was measured.

I might be wrong - it's not a film I'm really busting to see again, all those cold war stereotypes rammed home with sledgehammer finesse.:o

[Gandolf269]

We are told to do our punches in odd numbers when we are doing drills, such as advancing steps with punches. Even though we haven't been told why, I'm pretty sure it is to get you comfortable using both sides equally. For instance, to be able to start with either a right or left man sau before doing a pak dar. But this only applies to drills with a limited number of punches (usually 3 or 5).

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I have an impax shield which will measure both reaction time to a audible stimuli as well as the amount of force exerted. This is for one punch at a time and does not cumulate over time. In other words you get a new reading for each and every time you punch. Still, it can be useful especially in checking your reaction time. BTW, the stimuli is random so you can't, well I suppose you could, anticipate it.

I don't know if they sell these anymore, got mine several years ago. I have the hand-held wall model. I recall they had one that fit on a heavy bag as well.

Peace,

Dave

[anerlich]

S73,

My school had the same bag as you did. It broke, mainly because the part containing most of the electronics and the digital readout was made of brittle plastic and kept getting dropped on the floor, trod on, etc.

One of the more interesting discoveries we made was that almost everyone, regardless of skill level or training duration, could connect with a side kick faster than they could with a front kick, which was contrary to my expectations.

However, as you relate, this bag could only measure the impact force if a single strike, and had no facility for measuring the relative power of each of multiple strikes delivered in a flurry. Thus I question the validity of the assertions made regarding the last punch being the most powerful, unless some new piece of equipment exists with this capability about which I have not heard.

As I said I'm willing to be educated if I'm wrong ... and I'm still waiting.

I DO agree wholeheartedly that proper measurement is the only way to verify or disprove many of these "theories".

I remember reading an article somewhere where the writer claimed that the WC forms always started on the left side first, because that side was weaker for most people and the writer fielt the purpose was to try to redress the strength imbalance. This to my mind doesn't necessarily work logically, and even if it did doesn't do much for me as I'm left-handed.

[KenWingJitsu]

If you're worried about punching more with one hand than the other,....you're not sparring. When you spar you only worry about how many punches it takes to defeat your opponent...not if your last punch is a left or a right...

[Tvebak]

So if Wingchun does a flurry of punches...what about MChun? a MCflurry of punches? (sorry couldent resist).
It seems that most of you practice to make both sides equal, but does all WC schools practise this?
I just saw a video with a WC demo and all of them used the left foot in front and ended with punching with the left hand before starting to use elbows or stompkicks.
It seemed that if they had to fight someone on their "bad" side they kicked with their back foot and put it down in front to change sides.

[Ford Prefect]

The reason why you just use an odd number of punches (for boxing at least) is so you always end the combination with your forward hand, and thus you are able to establish a balanced defensive posture much quicker. (this assumed you started with your lead hand which you're taught to death in boxing) For example, if you end you combo with a rear cross, hook, or uppercut, then it will take longer to retract your hand and body. If you end a combo with lead straight, hook, or uppercut, then you're back in a balanced guard posistion almost immediately. I wouldn't be suprised if more systems used this concept as well.

[yuanfen]

For Prefect- good reasoning on boxing and the 1-2-3.
But wing chun is not one sided like boxing so the stance- structure and motion are different. Flow, even power development on both sides and other things are more relevant in wing chun. Also in wing chun- the "lead hand" notion is not as important as boxing's jabbing hand. In good wing chun you can initiate on either side at any time.

[chessGMwannabe]

hey everyone, neat thread, not much on topic for me to add that hasn't been said but . . .

It seemed that if they had to fight someone on their "bad" side they kicked with their back foot and put it down in front to change sides

in the wingchun that I learn, we don't kick off our back leg, kind of dangerous in closerange fighting. If you guys do I'd be glad to hear about it, maybe some justifications for it besides switching sides.

also it was rocky IV and the reading on it was in the 1800's and grew throughout the show until it was in the 2200's, but ROcky trashed him anyways cause he's awesome:) also if any of you guys remember the fight in that movie, they'd both be knocked out in the first few rounds, you can't train your brain to take that kind of beating.