What do you use the twist stance for?

[JWTAYLOR]

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I used to use it allot, and now I'm noticing that I'm replacing my twists with shuffles to get close to people.

What do YOU, not just your style or whatever, what do YOU use twist stances for?

Muchos Gracias

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[apoweyn]

do you have a picture? i'm not sure what a twist stance is.


stuart b.

[The Whyzyrd]

I think he is referring to the "Dragon" or "Cross Over" stance.

I use this one a lot myself. I have used it to give the illusion of being ****her away than I actually am as a setup for kicks as well as punches. Also - I use it to back out of a confrontation. Its a good way to throw a backfist out while "retreating".

In fact - you can give the illusion of retreating by steping out into a Dragon stance (often with a thrown backfist) and immediately step back IN to your opponent throwing a side kick (don't know if that makes sense and I don't have any pics or such to show).

Anyway - that's how I use it.

"The Wolf does not regard the barking dog"

[JWTAYLOR]

I don't have a picture but I'll try to describe how to do it.

Stand straight up with both feet together.
Take your right heel and place it directly in front on your left toe.
Without moving your right foot forward or back, move it about a foot or so to the left. That should put your left knee into your right knee pit.
Turn your body, head, and hands to face to the left.
Bend your knees.

That is one of many versions of many twist stances.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Water Dragon]

I use them for spiral takedowns.

http://www.politicalliberalism.com/uploader/image/138.gif

[apoweyn]

okay, that's what i thought you were referring to.

i use a variation of it in dodging low kicks and strikes to the knee. retrada, we call it. from a regular fighting stance, the lead foot steps back into the twist stance, taking it momentarily out of harm's way. then you sort of fall back into your fighting stance back in range.

i don't think i'd use it in offense only because if i cross my legs like that, a good stiff defense sidekick (stop kick) would likely topple me. at the very least, snuff me badly.

(allowing for the strong possibility that i'm just doing it wrong.)


stuart b.

[Mojo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jon Wayne Taylor:

what do YOU use twist stances for?
MOV[/quote]

Fighting Chubby Checkers ?

But seriously folks.....
The only time I use twist stances is when blocking kicks to mid-body. I usually block these with my elbow and twist in order to catch the kick.

..............................
The Dude: Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber.

[yenhoi]

:D :D :D :D :D

LOL

That guy's face is so classic.

:D :D :D :D :D

strike!

[SevenStar]

I also use it for take downs. When I was in jun fan, I learned a type of shuffling step called a "Z step" that utilized that stance. I was never to make it work for me in a sparring situation though.

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[Kung Lek]

I use it to step out of the center line of an oncoming attack while moving under at the same time and to steal a step on a retreating opponent.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[MaFuYee]

in my school, we sometimes refer to it as the "steal step", and it is used to close the distance, when comming in to do a throw.

i think, using it to retreat, is like using 'low block' to block a kick.

- neque mibi quisquam Judaeorum fabulas objiciat.

[apoweyn]

i have seen it used to set up a hip throw, now that you mention it.

what do you mean about the low block though? i'd always considered that a low block left you dangerously exposed up top. but the retrada leaves your hands where they are. just fades the lead leg out of range momentarily.

perhaps i misunderstand.


stuart b.

[Water Dragon]

We use the steal step as well. It's different from a twisted horse. More so in function that appearence. But yeah, we use the steal step same as you MA.

[dzu]

1. arm break
2. step to the outside gate
3. kick and stomp
4. avoiding a blow aimed at the foot/ankle
5. trapping the opponent's leg
6. etc.

Dzu

[Nutt'nhunny]

Ma Fu Yi and Water Drogan are correct. The rest of you guys are close.

Personally, I use it to make orange juice. Every morning I stick an orange between my thighs and squeeze it. I once ended a fight when I put a man's head beween my thighs. "Ok they were there already, but he was biting" anyways, I used that stance and he nearly died.

[Water Dragon]

What's this??? Nutt'nhunny sounds like he knows more than he lets on. How do you come in off a steal step nutster? Or if you prefer, what types of throw does the step set up?

[Vankuen]

I remember this stance as the crossed legged stance or the "scissor stance" in my two shaolin lineages. One use that I failed to see here (and it may very well be, and I just missed it...) was the use of generating power.

For example, one that I learned in tai chi, was that you might decide to move into a punch, stepping forward with the twisting leg while parrying with the opposite hand and twisting at the hips, closing the "kua" or center. Then you would step out into a deng sen bu, or forward stance and maybe use a vertical palm. Hopefully that makes sense.

Another use was to deflect off the centerline by sinking and turning, using this stance to facilitate the twisting energy, while at the same time striking and defending. Example: opponent punches, you twist the lead foot and use the lead hand to deflect/grab as you turn and use the rear hand to strike straight out. Pretty simple stuff here.

As with most things in gung fu, nothing stays. Stances are there merely to facilitate a movement. You are not going to stand in a stance to pose, or to be in a ready position, most of the stances are "moving stances"...ie they are used to facilitate a punch or a kick or a throw etc.

But.....that is just my take on things. Have fun this weekend! Ciao.

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

[straight blast]

If it's the stance I think it is (found in one of the tiger forms I think) we use it to facilitate the follow through of a roundhouse punch (not a hook) and blast into an uppercut. I really didn't like that application or stance much 'cos I'm not very flexible & I tend to fall over a lot at full speed!!
And something tells me that's not what I'm supposed to be doing :D

"Pain is merely weakness leaving the body"

[Nutt'nhunny]

water dragon-any throw requiring turning power. Get them moving attatch the turning power and zing, effortless throw.. Like judo but with even more power and finesse.. Spin them up, flip them or drill them into the ground. Whatever fits your fancy.

[tnwingtsun]

It can be used like a spring coils(Bai Mei Nine
Step Push Set).

It can also be used as a solid foundation
to launch a punch when cornered,you're sinking
but this would not be my first choice.

A more mobile version of this is "lion stepping"
in some Bai Mei external sets used to attain
a good 45 degree angle slip to your target.

WT uses a similar approach as do alot of other systems but WTs is harder to see if you don't know what to look for.

[honorisc]

"...but I used to use it allot, and now I'm noticing that I'm replacing my twists with shuffles to get close to people..."

When you did this stance you did it because you were told to, yet did not understand~ it. For closing, like the hakama? of akidoka, Kendoka, Kenjitsuka which hides the legs and frees the proponent to make preperatory stances that are different from what the proponent led the opponent to believe, the twisting stance not only covers ground openly, it allows one to close without them seeming to move-ish (closer or they seem to be at the same distance). And if an inch Can make-the difference, then this is valuable to winning the moment.

I think that you use the twist stance to move forward, but didn't ever really use it to glide/veer off center. It can act like a curveball, in Baseball. Batter (opponent): It's comming predictablly, I can hit it, it's going to be there, then, I'll meet it...Now...[your foot is on the ground now and you shift weight (like the baseball shifts trajectory)] the person has committed to where you were. You are beside them (though still in front in some instances). They can be fairly vulnerable to an immediate simultaneous strike (as they are involved with completing the committed punch to where you were; your closeness to the opponent allows you to stike well, while they are still hitting where they thought you would be--simultaneous strike).

Boxers seem to use this theory of twist. In what ap Oweyn had called a cross, the stepping associated with that is exececution of a principle of a twisting stance. It seems used to generate whip force with the weight shifting and punch momentum the weight of the body goes into the calculation of the connect of this use of the twist stance in punching augmentation.

It is used as distraction. Like the Japanese body handlers do before a lock or throw--make them look where I won't be (hit them when (where they're not looking).

It is used to close the distance straight to the opponent while keeping mimimum target areas exposed to the opponent. But the more telegraphed (stereotypically) shuffle gives the opponent less time to think and gets things over-with, more quickly. For those who would like to get it over with one way or another. Here it sets-up for kicks, retreats, body disloction in all~ directions including sideways, throws, distancing for follow-up after locking strikes.

This was a very on topoic thread before I posted. Good job people.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[This message was edited by No_Know on 11-10-01 at 05:46 AM.]

[Yuen]

Use it for defence stance movement. Difficult to explain. Writing this post through WAP :)

[Tigerdragon]

it doesn't look like a very strong stance, but if it is timed corectly you can get very solid shots from it.
This is also very usfeul when fighting multiple opponents. Strike th eguy in front of you then cros into a rear twist stance as you strike the guy behind you.

Just my thoughts

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready

[MaFuYee]

nuttinhunny;

the orange squeezing technique is an advanced one indeed. - one that has almost been lost through the ages. - it is good to know that there are still some keeping the tradition alive.

once you have mastered orange squeezing, you can move up to grapefruits, and and cateloupes. - eventually working your way up, to the super secret dim mak training, coconut break.

once you have mastered this skill, you can use the dragon stance, for leg takedowns, for knee drops, for arm and leg locks, and in many various ground fighting applications.

************

ap op;
trust me, you don't want me to go off on my "low block" schpiel. - there are still some suffering from the fallout, from the last time that happened. - let's just say, i would never advocate using "low block" to block a kick. (as is shown in many schools.) - yes, i agree with you, doing something like that, will most likely leave you with a bloody nose, a bruised arm, and painfully swollen 'nads.

using dragon stance to retreat, is the most basic, application. - when done, with the retreating leg stepping behind, it is ok, but when used with the retreating leg stepping over the other leg, you are asking for trouble. - (i believe the 'retreada' (sp?) you refer to, is with the retreating leg, going behind.)

so, i assume you know, that is also used for many other applications.

**************

dwzn*somethingorother*;
yes, i agree, it is also used as knee or ankle stomps / takedowns etc.

**************

tiny dragon;
that's cute. - you actually believe what your teacher told you ;)

- neque mibi quisquam Judaeorum fabulas objiciat.

[apoweyn]

MaFuYee,

Yeah, that's right. the retrada steps behind. I'd figure that if you step in front, you'd sort of turn your back on the bad guy, yeah?

Cheers.


Stuart B.

[omegapoint]

Are you describing the "Hidden Foot" stance? In many Okinawan systems it is used to hide the rear foot so you can sneak a rear-leg low kick in, without the opponent's knowledge. Both knees are bent, so balance is good and a side-kick to the knee (from your opponent) won't damage the joint.