Origins of 8 Step Mantis according to Plum Blossom Praying Mantis tradition n

[Old Mantis]

This comes from Ilya Profatilov's article published in the latest edition of Journal of Asian Martial Arts (Vol 10 #4):


"Around 1912, while in Yantai, Master Jiang Hualong (1855-1924, Plum Blossom Praying Mantis) developed a close relationship with two experts of Chinese boxing, Chen Deshan and Wang Zhongqing from whom he learned the best techniques of "Long-range Boxing" (Chang Quan), "Connected Arms Boxing" (Tongbei Quan), "Eight Trigrams Boxing" (Bagua Quan) and "Form-Mind Boxing" (Xingyi Quan).

Eventually Jiang Hualong's experiments with different styles of martial arts led to the creation of a new Tanglang Quan style. He became the initiator and co-founder of a combination style based on the original Tanglang Quan, Chang Quan, Tongbei, Xingyi and Bagua techniques, fused to combine an entirely different set of "Zhaiyao". This set of six forms became a core of the new boxing system. Master Jiang called this style "Six Harmonies Boxing" (Liuhe Quan) or "Harmonious Righteousness Boxing" (Yihe Quan), perhaps in honor of the Boxer rebellion (1898-1900).

Song Zide (1855-1933/34, Jiang's friend and kungfu brother) disapproved of this innovation by Jiang Hualong, firmly stating that they should teach the traditional style of Tanglang Quan (Praying Mantis Boxing) as it was taught for generations and that they should not create a new style. Nevertheless, Jiang Hualong believed in his innovations and went to teach a few people this new style. Among those to learn was a daoist priest, Feng Huanyi (1879-?) who passed the style on to Master Wei Xiaotang (1901 -1984) under the name of Eight Step Praying Mantis (Babu Tanglang Quan)."

[Tainan Mantis]

Old Mantis,
Thanks for sharing part of the article. I don't have access in Taiwan to that.

It would seem that 8 Step and 6 Harmony are the same style.
I went to ask my teacher, Shr Zheng Zhong, about this and this is a summary of what he said.

He went to study under Jiang Hsiang San the famous 6H GM in his home, this was at the urging of Li Hong Jie one of his Plum Flower Shr fus (Ilya also lists Li as his Shr fu).

He found no common thread linking 6H to any of the other PM styles. Niether forms nor movement flavor.

On a side note,Jiang did know a version of the first dzai yao. Only the first few moves are the same and then it looks different. It also has 8 roads instead of 4. This came from another teacher of his who studied under the famous plum flower master Jiang Hwa Long. This has caused confusion because Jiang Hsiang San calls it 7* while no one else ever called Jiang Ha Long's PM 7*. They all called it Plum Flower.

Furthermore, Before Ilya's teacher passed away he became friends with my teacher and gave him his complete hand written manuscript for his 6H PM.
It doesn't include the 8 Step forms called dzai yao.
Nor does it include beng bu, luan jie or 8 Elbows.

Although he did have a 7* beng bu, but that doesn't help in connecting 6H to 8 Step as 8 Step also doesn't do beng bu.

So maybe the 6H mentioned by Jiang Hwa Long is just a coincidence?
Does the article say where Ilya got this information?

[Old Mantis]

Tainan Mantis,

Thanks for the provided information.

I have asked Ilya Profatilov and here is what he said,

Jiang Hualong created a new style of boxing — Six Harmonies Boxing (Liu He Quan) which became a prototype style for 8 Step Mantis.

As you said it is just a coincidence. Jiang Hualong's creation has nothing to do with Six Harmonies Praying Mantis Boxing (Liu He Tang lang Quan).
__________________________

You said that your teacher has 6H PM manuscript and it does not include bengbu, luan jie and 8 Elbows. What does the manuscript include?
How many forms and what are their names?

Are these forms being practiced?

Thanks again.

[Tainan Mantis]

...I'll see my shr-fu and ask him these questions.

[Tainan Mantis]

Oops!
Not the complete hand written manuscript.
My Shr fu saw it when he was at GM Ma's home in Beijing.
GM Ma gave my teacher the manuscript for Tang Lang Go. A form his teacher made by combining 6H and Tong Bei.

The remainder of the manuscript is probably with one of his students in Beijing.
He has written it for the express purpose of getting it published in China. Last my teacher heard it still hadn't been published.

[Old Mantis]

Thanks.

[buddhapalm]

Hi Old Mantis,
In your post your quoted:

"Eventually Jiang Hualong's experiments with different styles of martial arts led to the creation of a new Tanglang Quan style. He became the initiator and co-founder of a combination style based on the original Tanglang Quan, Chang Quan, Tongbei, Xingyi and Bagua techniques, fused to combine an entirely different set of "Zhaiyao". This set of six forms became a core of the new boxing system. Master Jiang called this style "Six Harmonies Boxing" (Liuhe Quan) or "Harmonious Righteousness Boxing" (Yihe Quan), perhaps in honor of the Boxer rebellion (1898-1900).

....................Among those to learn was a daoist priest, Feng Huanyi (1879-?) who passed the style on to Master Wei Xiaotang (1901 -1984) "

I would like to ask if the "Liuhe Quan" you mention, is it a separate style, not a mantis style ?

The reason I am asking is that I am doing some research on my system of Kung Fu. In it we have a number of forms with the name Liu He before it such as:

- Liu He Lien Wan Quan (appears to be a Southern form)
- Liu He Mang Fu Ha San (appears to be a Southern form)
- Liu He Hua Quan (very Northern style)
- Liu He Yin Yang (Twighlight) Pole
- Liu He Plum Blossom Spear
- Tai Chi Liu He Dao (Tai Chi Liu He Saber ???)

Could these forms perhaps be related to Jiang Hualong's Liu He style.

Do you have the names of the six Liu He Quan forms ?

My Great Grandmaster Ma Jian Feng learned some Kung Fu from Sun YuFeng (lohan Men) in Canton Ching Wu, and also from a Taoist Priest called "Wang Dak Hing" in a temple outside of Hong Kong before 1950 sometime.

Just wondering if there may be a connection. Any help is appreciated.


Hi Tainan Mantis,
I was supposed to fax you the Chinese name of my Grandmaster months ago, but I lost your fax number - sorry. Is it possible to get your fax number again. Thanks so much.

Best Regards

Buddhapalm
teleka@pacbell.net

[Tainan Mantis]

O6 226 2348
But you have to add the country code for Taiwan which I don't know.
This is also my phone #. Don't worry about waking us up we take the phone off the hook all the time.

[Old Mantis]

buddhapalm


—I would like to ask if the "Liuhe Quan" you mention, is it a separate style, not a mantis style ? —

It is a mantis style. Eventually, Jiang Hualong’s "Liuhe Quan" became 8 Step Mantis...

Also please do not confuse 8 Step Mantis (babu tanglang) with Six Harmonies Praying Mantis (Liuhe Tanglang).

Six Harmonies Praying Mantis (Liuhe Tanglang) is also not related to the forms you listed.

—Could these forms perhaps be related to Jiang Hualong's Liu He style. —

I don’t know these forms. However I don’t think that your forms are related to Jiang Hualong's forms.

There are so many styles and forms in CMA that share the name of "Six Harmonies" (Liuhe).


—Do you have the names of the six Liu He Quan forms ? —

These forms are called "Essentials" (Zhai Yao) and each form is called "First Section of the Essentials", "Second Section of the Essentials", etc.

[EARTH DRAGON]

OK now you have confused me, As I have been told by my shr fu jiang hua long was a plum flower master that added ba gua for the footwork, tong bei for the double handed techniques and xing I for the linear and internal movements. I have also seen it written that jiang hua long was a 7* master but we know that its not true, but now you are saying that he was from 6 harmonies lui he chuan.

this is a small section from our history that was told to use by shyun kwan long, wei xiao tung student my shrfu

Chiang Hua Long was the 7th generation master of the Praying Mantis system. Before him, much of this art form was shrouded in mystery. With his appearance people would again marvel at skills that had only been dreamt of. Famous for his lightning fast hands, "Ghost Hands" became a very prominent figure in Chinese history. Not only did Chiang Hua Long posses great skills as a martial artist, but he proved to be a person with the highest of morals as well. Taking from the rich to distribute to the poor, it is easy to see similarities between Chiang Hua Long and Robin Hood. Chiang Hua Long's courageous and selfless acts won him the love and admiration of the Chinese people. His mastery of the Praying Mantis system won him the respect of martial artist everywhere, and the fear of his enemies.

To uphold his responsibility as Grandmaster of the style, Chiang Hua Long could never be short sighted. The very energetic jumping style of the monkey footwork was very effective but it required a great deal of energy. Chiang Hua Long realized that if he were to live up to his obligations he would have to maintain his fighting abilities well into his old age. He would have to create a new system of footwork that would use energy efficiently but also maintain the MantisÕs devastating effectiveness. Changing the Mantis system was not to be taken lightly, but as Grandmaster he was responsible for strengthening any weaknesses.

Being well respected by the masters of the martial arts throughout China, Chiang Hua Long was in an advantageous position. Traveling throughout China, Chiang Hua Long met with masters of many styles. To have such a man as Chiang Hua Long ask about their techniques was a great honor. The masters of martial art's most effective systems openly shared their techniques and secrets with him. Chiang Hua Long studied the footwork of many styles such as Bagua and Tom Pei. He spent a great deal of time studying and experimenting with each movement. Having an incredible amount of experience applying his skills, Chiang Hua Long knew what would be an improvement and what would simply be change. Very carefully he considered each technique until, after ten years, he had narrowed down the most effective to eight short and eight long steps. Chiang Hua Long had taken one of the very most effective fighting systems in the world and was able to improve it. The Eight Step Praying Mantis system had been born.

[Old Mantis]

EARTH DRAGON,


#1 Jiang Hualong created a new style — a combo of Plum Blossom Mantis,
Bagua Quan, Xingyi Quan and Tongbei Quan.

#2 Jiang Hualong called it "Six Harmonies Boxing" (Liuhe Quan)

#3 Jiang Hualong taught "Six Harmonies Boxing" to Feng Huanyi.

#4 Feng Huanyi renamed it 8 Step Mantis (babu tanglang)

#5 Feng Huanyi taught his 8 Step Mantis (babu tanglang) to Wei Xiaotang.


I hope this helps.

[Kravmantis]

Old Mantis,

I thought Master Wei's students named in Eight Step. I heard that Master Wei did not call it that in any of his books although I have not read the books as I do not speak Chinese.

[buddhapalm]

Thanks Old Mantis,
Yes its so confusing with so many "Liu He Quans" floating around. I will keep looking though.

Tainan Mantis,
I shall fax it over today, thanks.

Buddhapalm