pt1: Lets nip this one in the bud: chi power/randy

[Turiyan]

After spending some time dealing with an annoying virus on the computer, and re-installing even more annyoing viruses in the form of microsloth software. Then being shocked about a death of someone I felt was special in my life... I really dont have much patience to deal with you little boys. I dont care what you say. What you think doesnt matter. Your incapable of sophisticated or philisophical thought.

The chinese say: "Dont talk to the frog in the well about the world above". But, one must understand that ignorance breeds more ignorance. The classic perscription for arrogance and ignorance is chastisement.

There is a doctrine that says: "An improperly asked question need not be answered". "They will not give you permission to teach them anyways".

But you know what the sad thing is about hecklers? They always know that for every knowlegable, skilled and intelligent person. There are 10x more in the audience, afraid to speak up or stand up for themselves. Ones like the people that lurk here. Afraid to post a message because of what people might think or say. Or they dont quite know whats right and wrong but they are easily swayed by a more convincing "personality".

Thats where hecklers and skepti-cultists gain their power. By making accusations. "Hey look at me! I'm cute and really really clever".

I once read about how to deal with hecklers. Challenge them to answer this question: "Tell me ONE thing you've done in life that you can say your proud of?"

Just one thing. Something that required creativity. Something innovative. Something that didnt mean just "showing up". Something that required you to emulate, not imitate.... Come on, lets hear it ironfist. Who else wants to take a shot? Impress me. Blow me away. Post something more than a one line pat, canned answer.

I just went to the neurologist yesterday. This was a 2 month follow up from my last appointment. And we discovered something amazing. Much to his shock and suprise. My previously "absent" reflexes are now greatly improved. Before they were flat, all around. Like most experts, he has no real answers as to some of the issues I brought up to him.

But what we didnt tell him is that i've been getting accupuncture treatement for nerve issues per protocol of world famous accupunture physicians. They told me they had one patient that was told he had to have his feet amputated. Out of desperation he went to the clinic and had work done on "extra points" for nueropathys. 8 treatments later he was walking, and had total sensation in his feet.

8, 1 hour treatments. My first accupuncture treatement was on the same day I had EMG's and my reflexes tested. 2 months, about 8-10 treatments and the results are noticable. Now isnt that interesting? You know what they do in china? They have you do treatments daily for a few weeks. Not every week like here. So in 8-10 DAYS, or should I say HOURS, we see such a dramatic result on the nuerological system using certain protocols unknown to most people out there....

Very intersting.... I know how hard it is for children to pay attention to one thing longer than 5 seconds. But try and keep this in mind. It becomes very important later.

Like I said before. The word Veda comes from the sanskrit root word VIT. Latin and Sanskrit are linguisticly similar, so its not hard to understand that VIT in Sanskrit means the same as in latin. VITal. VIT means "to know". The esoteric has always meant and been for: "For those that do not know" or rather "Those that cannot know".

The esoteric, mysterious and symbolic is only for those that "do not know". In the history of india, there are traditionally two "churches". One for those that know (exoteric) and those that do not know (esoteric). The latter is for the public. For the common people. Those that live the ordinary way of life. If you guessed this as recognisable as the term "YOGA" then your following things very closely.

The social-cooperative tumor you call "civilisation", The "owned". Are those that do not have the VITal information and cannot be called teachers, guru's or masters. Unless you put them up on a pedestal and call them such. Then they are your higher power. Its mans choice.

[Turiyan]

You cant teach what you dont know. If a teachers job is to teach. Who have they taught thats known as "good"? Religon and cults are based on the inference that the follower or initiate never has to rise to the occasion and challenge themselves to do anything. This is what it means to live by faith. You just have to believe.

Scepticism comes from the school of thought that nothing is knowable. So anyone claiming anything must be lying. Because the actor knows how hard it is to actually think. And is unable to gain power or noteriety in any other way than making accusations against others.

Its even better this way because like religons and cults, you can attract followers... Hmmmmm, how intersting. Gather the lumpen masses around you and point fingers at those that arent "like us".

The classical perscription for arrogance and ignorance is chastisement. I'm already working on a similar presentation elsewhere. So what follows will mostly be a simply a matter of a bit of cutting and pasting. And since the issue was brought up before of providing scans... Here's a interesting little scan for you:

http://believit.freeyellow.com/caduceus.jpg

Know what this is? I didnt think so. Starting to get the idea? You've seen it but never knew what it meant. This is an example of the interconnected network of physical, bio-chemical and electromagnetic centers in the body. Most commonly known as "chakra's". This is dogma however, and a gross oversimplification.

There is a concept called the triple world law. This is an important concept in the natural sciences and vedism. In the human body, this refers to the physical or mechanical, bio-chemical and electromagnetic, in that order of importance, system.

Here are some vedic quotes on the triple world law for reference:

"People of lucidity (goodness) become gods, people of activity become humans, and people of darkness always become animals; this is the three-fold level of existence. But it should be realized that this three-fold level of existence, which is dependend on the QUALITYS, is itself three-fold: lowest, middle, and highest, according to the particular nature of the acts and of the knowledge of the actor"
--The Laws of Manu [C12V40-41]

see next part...

[Turiyan]

QUALITY not QUANTITY. Tantra is the vertice, yoga is the horizontal. This two dimentional graph represents OF A CLASS and the horizontal, arithmetic, time progressive horizontal model represents ACROSS A CLASS.

"The threefold course of transmigrations, is the result of (good or bad) actions, (the manner of attaining) supreme bliss and the (rule of the) examination of the good and bad qualities of actions."
--The Laws of Manu [C1V117]

It is called -systemic- because its all interconnected. Like a 3D graph. Adjust X, and it effects Y and then Z. The image is that of the shape of a triangle. The base supports the top. But the top runs the entire system. Just as the brain runs the body. So does the "brain" of the physical and bio-chemical (very difficult to consider these two seperate systems) network in the body. The electromagnetic level is much higher, and consequently less common to see in the world. Just as people like myself have been proven to be smarter than 95% of the rest of the planet (their tests, not mine). 5% or less of the "body" is capable of this potential.

The pituitary gland is the master gland. Know anything about it? Be sure to interject anytime guys. Really, anyone. Feel free to elucidate on your vast knowlege on the subject. Maybe you can teach me something. In yogic theory, this gland is associated with or connected to the crown chakra.

In phrenology, an inductive science. The pituitary gland is also responsible for the power of faith or belief. This is important in the understanding of the occult or religous methods. Strong faith or belief will correlate to a strong "energy" potential of the pituitary. But remember, the pituitary is part of the limbic system. This is more commonly known as the lizard or reptilian brain. Remember the triple world law?

"(previously) I had shewn what must be the fabric of the nerves and muscles of the human body to give the animal spirits contained in it the power to move the members" --Descartes Traite de l'Homme

"Of these spirits there be three kinds, according to the three principle parts, brain, heart, liver; natural, vital, animal" --Robert burton [Know about the livers role in TCM for moving the body? Didnt think so]

"The vital spirits are made in the heart of the natural, which by the arteries are transported to all the other parts: if the spirits cease, then life ceaseth, as in a syncope or swooning. The animal spirits formed of the vital, brought up to the brain, and diffused by the nerves, to the subordinate members, give sense and motion to them all." --Robert Burton

These three types correspond to reptilian, mammilian and neo-mammilian. Each former under the latter, in increasing numbers. The reptilian brain is about following, obeying, forming social and cooperative structures.... The function of the limbic system in another words covers all types of AUTONOMIC activitys.

Easy to understand the maxim: "If it doesnt work for everybody, its their fault". Extraordinary results require extraordinary people. There is a conceptual basis as well. A moral and ethical framework. The pituitary is just one piece of the puzzle. Just as its a small part of the brain which runs the body.

Are you studying to be an endocrinologist? Are you even resonably knowleged? In the endocrinolic (bio-chemical system) The thyroid is lower than the pituitary, and is known as the regulator. This corresponds to the throat chakra. The regulator is the traffic light for the function of the pituitary to cycle down to the lower centers and trickle up in a continuous cycle. Oh wait, let me use terminology you can relate to.

Look at the pictures and and try and figure out how the software runs the hardware.... (smirk). Like all biotic systems, its a self adjusting system. But not nessessarily self REGULATING. If there can be disease and dysfunction, somethings not right. Can you say all the particulars in a biotic system, or in a human system or a superstructure are self-regulating? You'd have to be incredibly stupid or dangeriously idealistic to think so. It should be that way. But its not.

Only individuals think. And of indviduals is the "brain" that is ultimatly running the body. Not everyone is an intellectual. Some think with their hearts or guts. Others with more... lower functions. We are talking about theory, not practice. Ideal conditions dont reflect the real world anyways.

Now, the importance of all this BASIC introductory material is leading to the "point" that the resistance and load of the nerves is depended upon the function of the two lowest systems in the body. Like in an electrical circuit, the more resistance, the more load the circuit can take.

More load, more chi. More chi, means more chi pressure. More chi packed to an area means more density. I doubt you've felt the the "cotton" effect. Talk to idiots that take exstacy about this sensation. For them its a SIDE EFFECT of the seritonin and its effect on the nerves (look it up). Like constitutional chi kung done wrong, this is just another classic example of overloading the system for diminished results.

Explosive chi force to an area of the body means you can break steel or rocks. You really dont want me to get into descartean hydralic-mechanic theory do you? If so just ask and I'll oblige anyone that professes a genuine interest.

I might as well start cutting this short because I can assume no ones reading this far anyways. Lets see the kind of replys I get to this one. I cant say that i'll expect to be impressed....

The role of activity in producing feedback or results.... Think about it. Meditate on it. In india, the REAL yogi's have no lives. Fine in a society that created a system for these ascetics to live in (and who was behind that... hmmmmm) How can you call them individuals? Do they have self knowlege when they are persuing "egolessness". What rational self-interests are they pesuing? Altruism is self-lessness and a form of sacrifice. They are sacrificing themselves for a supposed higher ideal.

see next part

[Turiyan]

Its their choice. Its just one way. But those body exercises are for the most part, magically dead.

Empty practice and empty ritual is just that. Empty. Go ahead, burn some more incense. Pray to Kuan. Bow to Buddha. Read another book. Go to another seminar. Do some more tai chi. Suck some more wind. I really dont care. Are you getting results? Are you getting feedback? Just one more year. Another decade. Another lifetime. Keep looking for that tree and you'll never see the forest.

Thats what yoga is. The scenic route. This isnt tantra. So dont even try and confuse different systems for/from different people.

Most people cant even feel chi and its their fault. Take a chi tonic, breath the air, eat some food. Thats "chi". Running more juice through a circuit doesnt make the circuit run better. Our transformers and resistors are self-adjusting. But we have to understand the "science" behind it.

Just as we have to know the triple world law of auto mechanics to turn a stock honda civic into a rocket that can 1/4 mile in 11 seconds. The automobile has a mechnical, bio-chemical (gas, oil, coolant) and electrical system as well (spark plugs, timing, rotor). If you want to supercharge your system, you better know the system behind it.

It is VITAL.

If you can heal nerve issues in days/hours/weeks. Think about what you could do with someone that has a "normal" level of function along with "supercharging" the system.

If its accessable to everyone, its not worth the trouble. That fits the classic definition of a cult! People of activity are human doings. Not human BEINGS. Only people of quality. Extraordinary people, will realize
extraordinary results.

Just try and figure out the connection between the nadis (nerves) and the glands. How possibly can monks with poor diets have a functioning glandular system? Believe in a sexual peak? Then how can an old man have awesome chi power just through "old age" alone. Its rediculous.

So you guys want to mention the amazing randy and his misdirections. What does he actually know about science? What do you know about science? Who taught you? Did you learn by observation or through direct transmission from a teacher? Let me know. I'm not seeing it. I'm not seeing "proof".

Thats magic in itself. Keep the attention off yourself and on someone else. Its called misdirection. Do you know the difference between induction and deduction? INduction is the class of, DEduction is taking away... Are you aware of how and why and when any effort to prove such a theory discredits the verification principle you use to prove it in the first place? Do you know why?

Thats what I thought. Are you aware that the axioms of logic, metaphysics, philisophy and mathematics are empircally improvable? Now you do. Bahahahahahahahahahah. Ahahahahahahahahahahhaah.

Now we found out who the real frauds and charlatins are. The ones that have to formal training in logic, reasoning, philosophy, metaphysics, deductive reasoning, inductive reasoning, empiricism, the scientific method or the natural sciences. Or, better yet, a reasonable knowlege of....

Galileio set a precedence for all scientists. You have to accept the unexptected and the unexplained and have a tolerance for ambiguity. Or your not a scientist. And any theory is also, thusly, not scientific. Proving that you know is more important, firsthand, than trying to disprove someone else.

Now... Dont you feel stupid....?

Oh, by all means. Dont take my word on it. Do your own research. Bahahahahahahahahahahhahaahha. Ahahahahahahahahahhahaahah.

Now, was there a witty rebuttal or post that I missed elsewhere on the subject of chi power that missed my attention?

"There is more than one way of accepting and spreading a philosophic theory. The guiltiest group, which has contributed the most to the victory of Kantianism, is the group that professes to despise it: The scientists. Adopting one variant or another of Logical Positivism (a Kantian offshoot), they rejected Kant's noumenal dimension, but agreed that the material world is unreal, that reality is unknowable, and that science does not deal with facts but with constructs." --Ayn Rand

Science and humor both build construct models: "...Build up a false world picture... Temporarily consistent to any tests he can apply to it. So he takes action on it. The falseness of the picture is then starkly revealed by the incongruity which his actions precipitate. ..False world pictures are facilitated by controlling the channel of communication by which he is getting his picture. ...The ease of counter-detecting is when different channels of examination are used simultaneously. ..A hoax is tampered evidence..."
--R.V. Jones, The theory of practical joking: Its relevance to physics, Bulletin of the Institute of Mathematics and its Applications, Vol. 11 Jan/Feb, 1975

"..and that, according to the rules of Mechanics, which are the same with those of Nature, when many objects tend at once to the same point where there is not sufficient room for all, the weaker and less agitated parts must necessarily be driven aside from that point by the stronger which alone in this way reach it."
--Rene descartes _ Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting the Reason and Seeking the Truth in the Sciences_

"Into three principle faculties - vegetal, sensitive, and rational, which make three distinctive kinds of living creatures - vegetal plants, sensible beasts, and rational men. How these three principle faculties are distinguished and connected...is beyond human capacity... The inferior may be alone, but the superior cannot subsist without the other; so sensible includes vegetal, rational both; which are contained in it (saith Aristotle) as a triangle in a quadrangle." --Robert burton

"From those versed in the three Vedas let him learn the threefold (sacred sciences), the primeval science of government and punishment, the science of philosophy and dialectics [mastery of self and words] and the knowledge of the supreme soul [ultimate consciousness/will/ether of consciousness]; from the people the *theory* of the various trades and professions. Day and night he must strenuously exert himself to conquer his senses; for he (alone) who has conquered his own senses, is able to *keep his subjects in obedience*." --The Laws of Manu [C7V43,44 (See also the 41 section sutra)]

[Water Dragon]

I agree. I personally believe everthing that people tell me as long as they are long winded and use big words ;)

[MightyB]

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah ZZZZZZZzzzzzzz.........

Somewhere in the middle I fell asleep.

Some quick math: A lot of quackery and Idealism PLUS a touch of religious philosophies ADD TO THAT a little pseudo-science (not enough to make 'em question just enough to make an illogical argument seem plausible) AND BAM!!! You get a cult.

[MightyB]

I've never concealed the fact that I intend to take over the world ;)

Follow me sheep, follow me!

[fa_jing]

Turiyan - besides being too long winded, you have so much sarcasm and emotional content to your post, that I couldn't make much sense of it. I can tell you have well-developed thinking on the matter, but remember you are communicating with others who are not likely to share your mode of thinking. Example: are you trying to say Yoga is a waste of time, or not a good path for developing Prana?? I can't even tell from your post. Although I do give you props for trying to take the subject material to the next level. It's clear that you are dealing with anger towards skeptics, just remember that skepticism, faith, and reason are all elements that occur to some extent in all people.
-FJ

[Merryprankster]

Turiyan;

Clean it up a bit. For all your lambasting, you've appealed to authority just as much as any of the people you wish to refute.

Distill it. Provide us with a bottom line.

IE, what's your point? You have rather a lot of thoughts jumbled up together that don't present us with a picture of what it is you wish to say.

For the record, skepticism does not grow out of the idea that nothing is knowable. That particular little gem is left to Subjectivism, which is NOT the same thing, and pointless to discuss in its absolute form.

[Mr. Nemo]

Christ, Turiyan.....you can't just throw a bunch of random $h!t together and hope by some fluke it makes a coherent point. Merryprankster was being polite, so I'll be honest: what you just wrote makes no sense. And yes, I did read all of it.

[Steven T. Richards]

I don't like to attack the character of a debating partner in order to refute his arguement (ad hominem fallacy) but, as others have said, you don't do yourself any favours by producing something which in terms of its ideational content being so mixed - would be enough to get sopmeone sectioned in the UK under the mental health act. Many of the psychotic delusions
I hear from patients are more 'sane' and coherrant.

I'm not suggesting that you are 'ill' - probably just upset a little.

[MightyB]

Let's stop beat'n up on ol' Turiyan. (He doesn't seem to have any allies). I've learned to let people live the way they want to live. Besides, what's the point? We can argue all night and nothing we say or he say's will change how any of us feel.

I want proof. Proof destroys fantasy. The truth hurts.

I always thought that the true goal of the internalists was to seek the truth. It seems that I was wrong.

[diego]

steve he has tlr info,stating he could possibly fit for uk psychiatric inspections,will not make a turiyan open up.

[Tigerstyle]

Mr Nemo,
Of course the posts make no sense to you. You're not smarter than 95% of the people on the planet. How can you even hope to comprehend it? :p

BTW Nemo, that's an impressive garage kumite record. Maybe some day you'll be ready to move on to back yard kumite where weather and unpredictable terrain really test you.


On topic:
I agree about posting a clearer version. I am interested in reading (and understanding :) ) it. The amount of content could also be brought down considerably without most of the cheap shots and "holier-than-thou" statements, too. (Most of them. Little bit is ok by me :) )

[Braden]

Interesting quotes. Ayn Rand seemed out of place. Was that a sarcastic joke? It made me chuckle. I'm not a fan of Descartes though. Mostly because so much of what he did was fueled by politics. Yes, he contributed alot. But like Kant, it's in the past. Have you encountered the research regarding the influence of light [through the eyes] upon the functioning of the pineal gland? Very interesting and potentially pertinent. Have you read Bohm's Wholeness and the Implicate Order? Off topic, but related to some of the metaphysics points brought up at the very end.

[SevenStar]

Was I the only one that fell asleep on part three? I'm at my desk at work, so I hope nobody noticed! Rand, wrote "The Fountainhead", correct? I remember reading that a while ago. Anyway, Turiyan are you gonna give us the url for the amazing qi powers in 2 weeks site or what??

[prana]

The chinese say: "Dont talk to the frog in the well about the world above". But, one must understand that ignorance breeds more ignorance.
More accurately, the indians said try explaining the tree to a tadpole.
Congratulations on your progression of your reflexes....


In the human body, this refers to the physical or mechanical, bio-chemical and electromagnetic, in that order of importance, system.
We are refering to Nirmanakaya, Sambhogayakaya and Dharmakaya ?


The electromagnetic level is much higher, and consequently less common to see in the world. Just as people like myself have been proven to be smarter than 95% of the rest of the planet (their tests, not mine). 5% or less of the "body" is capable of this potential.
Worldly intelligence to spiritual degression. Diving into the midst of ignorance is the cause of suffering...


The pituitary gland is the master gland. Know anything about it? Be sure to interject anytime guys. Really, anyone. Feel free to elucidate on your vast knowlege on the subject. Maybe you can teach me something. In yogic theory, this gland is associated with or connected to the crown chakra.
hehehee the only word I can add to you here is 'Ommmmmm', the one with the perfection of thought, would not be capable of thinking of thoughts that could possibly harm another.


The thyroid is lower than the pituitary, and is known as the regulator. This corresponds to the throat chakra.

And for this, I give you 'Ahhhhhhhhhh'. The one with the perfection Ah is incapable of generating speech that is hurtful to the ears of others.

Where is the Hum ?


I might as well start cutting this short because I can assume no ones reading this far anyways. Lets see the kind of replys I get to this one. I cant say that i'll expect to be impressed....

I have read it for the fourth time, friend...


Thats what yoga is. The scenic route. This isnt tantra. So dont even try and confuse different systems for/from different people. I am confused here. The last great show you had on the forum was specifically to tell us that Tantra was an act of satanism. Anyone else remember this ? You even quoted another latin translation of this word...


Running more juice through a circuit doesnt make the circuit run better. Our transformers and resistors are self-adjusting. But we have to understand the "science" behind it.

Not neccesarily. Most silicon switches have a linear region of operation. Working below or above this region will cause illinearity and can cause distortion of energy, I am no physicists so correct me if I am wrong. Another example, transmission of a bit wise logic modulation, if without emitting at the right amplitude (such as from a power spike), could come across as a low signal from a high signal. And so power of modulation is crucial. Working a tetrode at a higher than specced voltage can cause secondary emmission of the anode plate and cause a reflective tetrode effect. This causes increased amplification and in some cases, 'sweeter' distortion. Why a whole science is devoted to this area. I hope I would know just a little bit, but no more than you of course, my thesis was on Teslas High Energy wireless transmission towers. Could you elaborate on how the xformer and resistors are self adjusting ? I am not testing you, just trying to grasp your concept.

edit: why the very act of turning your CPU on needs a rather large surge of power. In fact, a sudden peak to about 40 Amps via a 2.2 voltage rail needs incredibly low resistance and low reactance, and this done via electrolytic caps lying right under the CPU. Scientist are even working on capacitors to accomodate this energy entirely to avoid destroying the sophisticated batteries of today.

I shall point out that you should never assume that all beings that run this forum have no knowledge of the chakras. You shan't assume as I shant assume your knowledge. I may come across to your as sharp and blunt, but I seek to understand your position. But what I am getting from you is that you are intensely miserable due to an uncontrolled circumstance.

And to close this off, yes I bow to Buddha. and may you find peace

[MonkeySlap Too]

Well, I was just sitting here levitating, mixing kool-aid for my sheople, er followers, when Turiyan communicated to me on the psychic plane.

I am shocked that no one her can understand how that squirrell running across the lawn right now has everything to do with the freemasons being secretly behind the Spanish American war and how the invention of the television set is directly related and will result in increased attention span for the native aborigines of Australia when they walk the dream world wearing Jean nat'ee and Hi karate while humming showtunes that were not written yet by Martin Luther King and his secret adviser Amonhotep.

Did you know that Latvian and Kilingon are related?

Can't you understand that? Are you micro enchephalic you silly outsider non-beleivers?

-- I'm going for the Turiyan literature award --

[straight blast]

And there are times I thought my religion was dogmatic....

Very interesting. I find that reading jumbled rhetoric like that helps me achieve a higher plane of existence...After about four paragraphs I am able to completely lose track of my entire existence and my vision blurs. My mind is simply shut down and I return to the Prime Material plane just towards the end. It's kind of like the sound of one hand clapping...only a whole lot less interesting.
Turiyan, curse you for wasting a good one and a half minutes of my life. If I wanted to read propagandised self praising weak minded egotistical bulls**t I'd simply have subscribed to my local Political parties, and told them that I was interested in contributing cash to their campaigns.
Do you understand that?
I thought not.
Ah ha ha ha....whatever
I'd like to take these tests also. Can you post them on the forum for us? I wonder if "they" would say I was smarter than you. Judging from reading your post and your fascination with "big" :D words I would say you are only semi literate at best. The smaller the mind, the bigger the words.
But you have made me feel better. I'm really relieved to know that I have easily avaliable help next time I experience insomnia. Or a sedative for a pre-op.

[Paul]

Turiyan, that LSD is really good stuff huh?

[Budokan]

"I dont care what you say. What you think doesnt matter. " --Turiyan

Wrong again, dipsh*t.

[SevenStar]

I wonder if he ever rereads some of his posts and wonders what the he11 he was talking about

[Budokan]

Wow, you made it to the third part? You are one burly he-man!-- I can't imagine how much punishment you had to take to wade through that much hogsh*t!

Hey, Turiyan, next time put water in your bong, you dumb rat-headed dogf*ck.

[Xebsball]

I have no idea of whats he talking about

[Budokan]

Sadly, neither does he.

[prana]

I think he is basically saying that he discovered that there is such as thing as acupuncture points, and that he has had treatment and his reflexes are coming across well. So Qi is definitely there and is real.

He is also saying that most people who cannot feel Qi is their own lacking because their minds are less developed.

In amidst this, he is also assuring that he is above 95% of people in this world and yet only less than 5% of the average brain is being used. He is also stating that he has a knowledge of Qi, and the inner meridian systems, including labelling the different energy systems via vital organs. Also, by using analogies he can find to supports his intellectual findings from everywhere.

Apart from this basic message, I think he is showing a little bit of character that are coming across as ... well speaking of the obvious. But I am none too good myself so, I apologise...

[Ryu]

"philOsophical" It's with an "o."


:)

Ryu

[Fish of Fury]

I can shove my head 95% of the way up my butt...can you do that? anybody? jump in any time!

go on, see if you can get your pineal gland as far into your rectum as i can.
(I don't expect to be impressed!)

excuse me while i go into a self righteous huff

[kungfu cowboy]

I think it might be time to start taking those meds again!

[scotty1]

Do you think that in order to gain some sort of understanding about Chi it is necessary to know about meta/astro/bling/blong/****mymom physics?
Its not that I couldn't, and I can kind of keep up, but I've never really been around people having that sort of conversation before.
So do you think its possible to discuss in terms that everyone is familiar with? Or is it so complex that its not a layman's subject?

[Crimson Phoenix]

Here is the problem with Turyian: he doesn't fully know what he's talking about...I have witnessed all my life that people who really master a topic can teach its essence to novices using plain, simple words in a way that makes them go "haha!" because it becomes crystal clear.
Turyian sounds too much like the most obscure book of karmic theory.
You can't show your culture with pedant words and seemingly assured dogmas, it is sophism...
Real culture shines when you are able to make someone grasp the very essence of what you are talking about using only common and even boring words.
And by trying to sound so much knowledgeable and dharma-scientist, you just appear like a fool trying to impress peeps...

[scotty1]

Fully agree with Crimson Phoenix.

[Merryprankster]

Crimson;

Precisely. It's like quantum mechanics... it seems like a devilishly complex beast, full of contradictions and nightmares. But, in reality, it's fiendishly simple: All physics are the sum total of statistical probabilities.

Once you understand that, every thing else falls into place... it's all just TOOLS to uncover or manipulate that one single fact.

[fa_jing]

I don't think you want to draw the parallel with Quantum Mechanics. It isn't exactly simple, in fact, you need to study infinite-dimensional calculus in order to work with QM theory.
Futhermore, in QM we have a quantitative description of the way the world works at the microscopic level. However, despite repeated attempts by scientists at a qualitative description, none are essentially convincing. So from a qualitative standpoint, quantum mechanics is a quagmire.

-FJ

[Merryprankster]

I guess I'm trying to say that conceptually its not so hard to get your brain around the basics.

I would agree its horribly difficult in its execution.

However, you obviously have more experience here than I do, and I will bow to your greater knowledge :cool:

[MightyB]

Fa_Jing,

What's your take on the book "The Tao of Physics"? Any merit to that book?

[Ginger Fist]

After spending some time dealing with an annoying virus on the computer, and re-installing even more annyoing viruses in the form of microsloth software.

--pity u managed 2 fix it ... people would b better off if u had no computer ... just ur mouth ... fist in it would shut u up 4ever

Then being shocked about a death of someone I felt was special in my life...

--oh ... boo-hoo-hoo ... lil 'ol tur*dofgold lost his only friend ... fu(k u cry baby sissy boy

I really dont have much patience to deal with you little boys.

--4 sure dude!! u r far 2 busy boo-hoo-hooing & doing more bad research in ur comic book collection

I dont care what you say.

--kewl beans tur*dofgold sissy boy ... no1 ever cared ? u said on any of the forums u've trolled on thru the years ... p*isses u off doesn't it sh*it4brains

What you think doesnt matter.

--not 2 u cuz u can't think at all ... boo-hoo-hoo ... tur*dofgold's goldfish died ... boo-hoo-hoo

Your incapable of sophisticated or philisophical thought.

--not [your] incapable u walking brainfar*t ... [you're] ... doubt any1 knows ? philisophical means barkpuddle boy ... oh ... the great & learned tu*rdofgold meant philosophical ... i get it & u r not capable of thought u flatliner

The chinese say: "Dont talk to the frog in the well about the world above".

--the chinese also say [ur mother's cu*nt] 2 cr*apstains like u

But, one must understand that ignorance breeds more ignorance.

--ur mom & dad must b dumber than snail snot 2 have bred a moron like u ... good saying - thanx

The classic perscription for arrogance and ignorance is chastisement.

--good ... u go sit in the corner of ur lil room & chastise urself 4 being such an arrogant-ignorant as*shole all these yrs tu*rdofgold poseur p*ussy boy ... should keep u off the forum 4 mos - at least ... oh - boo-hoo-hoo tu*rdofgold lost his only friend & favorite tu*rd ... just sh*it another 1 u cry baby wuss

[Ginger Fist]

--here's tur*dofgold doing his chi kung which he didn't want released 2 the public as it is super secret sh*it:

http://coke.rotten.com/gran-canarias/

[Braden]

Quantum physics easy to conceptualize?

I guess if you're comfortable with concepts like particle-wave duality and determinism rising spontaneously from large-scale pure indeterminism.

[TjD]

i believe turiyan wrote that post with a bit of anger...

even amidst all that, he did bring up a few good points
i think many people do tend to turn a blind eye to what the mind can do; i dont claim to know why, perhaps fear. who knows?

anyhow, i think what would be best would be if turyian could raise his points in a less condescending and angry manner, and everyone in general could be a little less insulting

but hey, thats the problem with forums everywhere isnt it :)


personally however, i'd at least like to hear what he has to say with a clearer head


peace
travis

[Merryprankster]

particle wave duality? Yup. Totally comfortable with that.

determinism out of large scale indeterminism. Yup. Comfortable with that too. Something to do with background energy as I recall, but my mind is hazy on this.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Quantum physics is an intellectual band aid to explain observable phenomena we cannot explain.

Kind of like the 'five elements' was for Chinese cosmology and medicine.

Most of Quantum physics is pretty rational stuff once you look at the meanings behind what is said. Pretty fun theoretical stuff. But easily misunderstood by non-physicists.

--I'm no physicist, so don't look at me either.

[MightyB]

I just felt some bubbling Chi... Oh wait... No, that was just gas. I think I felt a little chi when I was making an offering to the old' Earth Mother once while sitting on the throne though, but it sure didn't smell pretty... :)

[Fu-Pow]

Mighty B wrote:


What's your take on the book "The Tao of Physics"? Any merit to that book?

A side note. I believe that there is little connection between Taoism and Quantum Mechanics. "The Tao of Physics" relies on semantic arguments to make this connection. The english language has limitations, especially when you are talking about complex concepts like taoism or quantum mechanics.The author exploits the limitations of language to make connections that I just don't believe are there.

So even though semantically statements from Quantum Physicists and ancient Taoists might "sound" the same, they are, in fact, talking about very different things. Quantum physicists and ancient Taoists are coming from different philosophical, cultural and metaphysical paradigms.

Peace

[fa_jing]

No, I haven't read the Tao of Physics, but I've heard a little about it. Probably something along the lines of what Fu-Pow is saying.
I studied QM in 4-th year of my math/physics degree. It is very challenging from a mathematical standpoint. I haven't been keeping on top of things in the world of Physics since then. Well, you might be interested that the mathematical implications are extrapolations of the postulates, which are basically that matter and energy are quantized, and then the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Everything follows from that. These postulates have not been strictly proven, they are assumed - however their mathematical extrapolations correctly predict observable phenomena. Conversely, classical physics has been proven to not correctly predict certain observable phenomena. The problem for me comes when people try to make a qualitative statement based on the uncertainty principle, for instance, that this shows there is no predestination - well, according to lab experiments, the data is consistant with there being no predestination. The grain of salt is that whenever you observe, you modify the observed. For instance at the microscopic level, you general observe by bouncing a photon off of the particle in question. You are clearly modifying what you are observing. So, there is no true knowledge of what exists at a fundamental level, in fact, the very same uncertainty principle prohibits exact knowledge of a particle's position and momentum. The way the statistical analysis of infinite possibilities falls into place as a predictor of finite phenomena is fascinating, however to me it is just a mathematic tool for predicting and showing the consistancy of phenomena, it has no philosophical implications, though some may differ.

-FJ

P.S. thanks for probing my brain, I thought I'da forgotten this stuff.

[Braden]

Merry - The only way I can conceptualize those things is through Bohm's newer model, which is quite different from all previous (and subsequent, I think) major models of QM. Particularly, he stresses the existance of 'hidden variables', as opposed to irreducible lawlessness at the quantum level. Also pushes micocosm-macrocosm ideas more aggressively. Without 'hidden variables' / microcosm-macrocosm, even such 'mundane' things as electrons 'disappearing' then 'reappearing' kind of bothers me.

[Merryprankster]

Huh. They never really bothered me as concepts. I couldn't hope to do the math as I have no training.

I am sure the subjects are more complex than my simple understanding.

[Braden]

Oh me too man. I'm no physicist. Some of it is very intellectually appealing. But I found out a long time ago that actually doing it drove me nuts - and switched my major. ;)

[Ginger Fist]

anyhow, i think what would be best would be if turyian could raise his points in a less condescending and angry manner, and everyone in general could be a little less insulting

--tu*rdofgold is a troll ... no kung fu skill ... reads bad mags i ? ... did the same sh*it on other forums ... never changed his troll gig ... gots 2 b major brain dead guy

[TjD]

no offense... but i really couldnt read what you wrote :)

peace
travis

[prana]

I think (Turiyan if you are listening) it would be at least a sign of humanity that you replied to us since we have given your statements a good filtering.

I have witnessed that Turiyan does in fact "speak" on other forums with less fire, but unfortunately he seems to have come to KungFuForum with the intention to flame, and once he hinted that it is due to Buddhism being from India (or along the lines of this) Brahmin thing... (Turiyan, care to elaborate if you please ?)

I think if nothing else, you should at least explain why your anger boils over everytime you come here, least we can get to the bottom of this.....