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prana
12-20-2001, 04:57 PM
Perhaps this thread could become a waste of space. I do apologise.

This thread could apply to the Qi thread, or maybe, perhaps the way one should seek knowledge by questioning a guru. All the heated conversations are helping me understand a few things myself, about my own faults.

Anyway, a teacher usually goes through much training and wisdom to understand the mentality of a student, traditionally, teachings (martials arts or not) are not taught simply to students, but the teacher usually weighs up the students interests, sincerity, discipline, style, ethics, potential and I am sure so many more aspects before a style (teaching) is transmitted towards the student. This is none more evident than in the world of (pardon my personal feelings in this) Buddhism, when one seeks a teaching from a guru. I am sure it applies in so many other places too.

So may I just say, if you seek to understand a subject (at the moment it seems Qi is in flavour), put an effort into understanding it, not an effort into misunderstanding it. That way, if effort does not boil come to fruition and results are thus far, then you have the right authority to dismiss the results.


As I am doing now, perhaps what I have to say may be against the thoughts and believes of so many on this board, I apologise, but I can see so much misery has been caused to my cyber-friends on this board, because conclusions have been made without correct effort. In fact, in my wrong doing, that is how I came to this board too...

I would like to use an example to illustrate my point. Being very strongly a follower of physics, chemistry and mathematics when I younger, I strongly discounted any possibility of Chi, and and laffed at the prayers to the Buddhas. In fact, I remember having heated verbal arguments with people regarding this subject. But I have great thanks to one of my great teachers who transmitted a teaching to me in the form of a great experiential force, although I may not be outwardly humiliated (the great wisdom of Sifu) I learnt a great lesson of not closing the door to which one does not understand.

As mentioned elsewhere, just as a tadpole is incapable of understanding a tree, until it has developed eyes, we are not able to develop 'inner' senses until we start paying attention to the internals of the body. We are all too used to the sounds, taste, touch, vision, that our consciousness is built entirely on these very foundations, to find that during death, all these foundations are sudddenly destroyed. But perhaps, one might spend even one moment to think, how a dolphin is able to perceive the ocean floor for fish without their eyes, and their consciousness have atuuned to this, and it is second nature, and yet we rely on semi reliable sonar equipment.

And now, beginning to understand the teachings of Buddhism (or in fact any religion I am sure) if one prostrates to the Buddha ( or whomever), one is really destroying ones ego, practising humility, seeking the perfection of body, speech and mind, and most of all, opening the doors that have been shut to cause misery. One, in thought, drops the 5 poisonous thoughts, and picks up the 4 great thoughts of selflessness with every prostration. The only benefit is for all beings of this world, and not the Buddha. Yet to the outsider this becomes an act of worship...

I hope this message comes without stepping on anyones toes, and I mean no disrespect....

Please feel free to comment, flame, hatred.....

Water Dragon
12-20-2001, 05:33 PM
2 points

1. Western minds think differently than Eastern ones. The western mind is taught to question, discover, and find out for yourself from an early age. The Eastern mind is taught to respect past teachings more and follow leadership.

2. I think you are looking at martial arts from a strictly Buddhist perspective. While there's nothing wrong with that, it's not an absolute. Relate the two how you want, just remember that a lot of us will not make that connection. Take myself, I'm a Roman Catholic so I wont look at things from the Buddhist perspective. I may feel the same things you do and get the same results, but I'm gonna tend to explain it in terminology that makes sense in my culture.

yuanfen
12-20-2001, 05:48 PM
Water Dragon sez:
The Eastern mind is taught to respect past teachings more and follow leadership.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Not quite true. Buddhism, specially mahayana emphasizes the
directness of experience without ego or pre judging as the real
source of knowledge. Teachers point. Students need to experience for themselves.

Nexus
12-20-2001, 06:22 PM
Until you have had sex it's all just make believe.

prana
12-20-2001, 06:23 PM
1. Western minds think differently than Eastern ones. The western mind is taught to question, discover, and find out for yourself from an early age. The Eastern mind is taught to respect past teachings more and follow leadership.

Perhaps I shant have written things in a Buddhist perspective and the word Buddhist seems to come with a pre-label. It was my lack of skill.

What I am saying is that, eastern or western, a student cannot learn fully what a teacher is to teach, if a student maintains has doubts and lack of confidence in the ability of the teacher. So it doing so, a student needs to understand errr I think the closest western word 'sus' out the teacher before taking him/her on as a guru (of any subject for that matter, eg Martial Arts)

And more so, if a student goes to class wearing coloured contacts, they cannot participate in a class of recongnising colors without first removing these filters. And to remove these filters for the true experience, the student might'nt do so happily without having confidence in the guru.

I am not implying one shant question, that is far from it. What I am saying is something along the lines of "Going for a holiday, don't forget to first leave the house". Terrible analogy, but....
and if you get there and the holiday place is in fact boring, then you know for sure it is not what you want. It is a simple message I think.... also, if you stop by along the way before reaching your destination, how can one be finite about the destination ?

I am not fluent with my expression. But I hope the juice comes through, and this is not about eastern or western catholic or muslim, white or black, male or female.....

prana
12-20-2001, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Nexus
Until you have had sex it's all just make believe.

ahahah Nexus, beautifully put, I used maybe 3 thousand words to say the same thing you did in 10 words :D amazing

I truly suck !

TjD
12-20-2001, 08:14 PM
born in upstate new york, roman catholic all the way; was even confirmed ;)

whole lot of good that way


my questioning nature was what got me into meditation; and bhuddism (the guy knew what he was talking about)

my desire to figure things out brought me to this path, seeing as it was the best way to figure EVERYTHING out; not only that, figure out the most important things


a lot of meditation is definatley not sitting back on the words of others.. one of the first things they teach you is that words are no substitute for reality - so no matter what anyone tells you, you still have to figure it out and learn it for yourself


and nexus, you hit the nail right on the head ;)

peace
travis

Water Dragon
12-20-2001, 09:25 PM
Well, it looks as if I stand corrected.