Classmates who misunderstand form

[KC Elbows]

Anyone had these? I've got one right now, took a little hsing yi and a lot of external wushu stuff. Whenever something slightly resembles hsing yi(like a shuffle step we do called biu ma) he sees it with his hsing yi eyes(in hsing yi, a similar step would be ended in empty stance, whereas for us, the end stance resembles a closed pa kua stance). Then, when the teacher is not there, he'll say "No, it goes like this" and there's no convincing him otherwise, no matter how many times it happens. Any thing he's learned something similar to before, he'll do the old way, and never really learn the way we do it or the why, because he'll say "Yeah, but it can be done this way".

Anyone had similar classmates?

[Shaolindynasty]

Yeah, a guy of ours took akido before and turns anything no matter what it is into somthing he learned in Akido. Funny thing is another guy who is currently taking akido says he doesn't know what he is talking about and his basics suck. So I think that guy got ripped off when he took it, I mean he thinks Budo means sword fighting. Yet you can't convince him of anything cause he is so stuck on it.

[EARTH DRAGON]

A young boy came up to the most famous master in his village and said master master will you teach me kung fu until i become great. The master replied I thought you had a teacher? the boy said yes many but they stopped teaching me. The master said to the boy, do you know why? the boy said no. The master motioned for the boy to come and sit down and have some tea. The old man then picked up the pot of tea and filled his cup and set the pot back down, the little boy looked puzzeled and said master are'nt you going to fill my cup too? the master laughed and said my son your cup is already full , you must first empty it before I can fill it. with that the boy looked in his cup and it was empty......... he then learned his first lesson on how to learn kung fu to be great..

Not everyone is comfotable change and for some showing off is a defense mechanisim for low self esteem. You see if he has something to add it maybe his way of feeling like he knows something or wants to fit in. Or it could be that he is just an a**.. just kidding. But seriously he probably is stiking to what he knows for a reason that only he will know, I suggest talking to him and finding out why he wants so much attention. I say this as a teacher and a shrfu and my opinon is based on helping people especially students, so I understand that it can be frustrating , but beleive it or not its a cry for help or attention or both.

[Paul]

Nope never had similar classmates. that must suck.

[KC Elbows]

ED, yeah, that's very possible. He has VERY low self esteem, is a good kung fu practitioner, but has a hard time being a beginner because, as a beginner, you cannot be falling back on pride, and pride is how he fills the gap in his self image.

I've got another guy I help teach, a wing chun guy. He's good at wing chun, but just starting with our internal stuff. Show him any move, and he'll get the surface motion very easily, and he'll say "I got it", but it is all tight, not supertight, but not like it should be. Its like he goes fast, but never accelerates, its just a little fast from beginning to end, not superfast at the end from being relaxed. He's good though, and he doesn't have an eye yet for the distinction between what he is doing and the reality of the technique(of course, that's probably true of many of us). He'll be good at the internal stuff once he starts to see the distinction, as he has little in the way of ego problems.

[Justa Man]

yea, and i let them think whatever they want. i don't try to convince them of anything, but when they teach someone else wrong, then if i'm their senior i step in and say 'not exactly, it goes like this' and if i'm not i tell sifu what they are doing.
and i've had someone say exactly this, "yeah, but it can be done this way too", to which i replied, 'but in this school it's done like this, and if you are a student in this school, then this is the way it's done'. new school, new cup...plain and simple.

[DelicateSound]

Quite a lot of people have "little man disease"
Even though its their first session they have to think they know it all. Its a pain in the arse for an instructor when there's an ******* trying to tell everyone how he thinks it should be done.

[Paul]

Sounds like an ego thing to me. Beat him up.

[KC Elbows]

Its one of the harder things for me to deal with, as I don't want to make an unpleasant scene in the other students' classtime, so I have to take this person to the side and explain it to them, and it cuts into the instruction time.

[Paul]

Is this guy Canadian?

[KC Elbows]

LOL!!

No, not a Canadian. I'm sure of it, as I've seen him eating only the finest pizza, and no Canadian could ever discriminate between good pizza and bad pizza.

[Shaolindynasty]

I personally have a problem with being to quite when someone is teaching me. I just listen like I don't know anything at all and some people feel like they need to be my "sifu" when in fact I am an instructor myself, so when we talk about other things they don't like to listen to their "student". When in fact somtimes I might know more about what they are talking about than they do, I admit it is a blow to the ego but it is a great way to learn from other MA instructors without them hesitating to sho me everything or them trying to accomodate my previous training. Saying things like "in Kungfu you probally do it like this" and tryin to explain themselves with my terminology when they just get it wrong. Anyway, when I attend other teachers classes i am a begginer in their art and I act like one.

[DelicateSound]

Teach an arrogant Frenchman, vous allez vous.

[Paul]

don't even get me started on Canadian beer.

[KC Elbows]

Shaolin, I agree 100 per cent. My art has no place in another class/seminar. If they ask what I've studied, I'll tell them, but I won't purposefully do one technique from my style during their class/seminar.

Yes, its a fine Christmas eve. We've managed to cause unfetered conflict between the US, Britain, and Canada, and now we're dragging the french into it.

I wonder if there's anyone online right now from Iceland to offend.;)

[Paul]

what's up with Iceland anyways?

[KC Elbows]

I think I've somehow hijacked my own thread. What a *******.

[qeySuS]

lol i wasnt reading this thread :) What yuo wanna say about iceland? :)

Anywho i've been the new guy at a school now for about a year (started january last year), and i'm still "Kung fu boy" :) Dont really care since i know it's not meant badly. I do it their way and really try to learn it their way, sure when they first show me something i associate it with something i know and figure it's the same, but as soon as they correct me i try to do it the right way (although i do sometimes automatlcy do it the old way). I'm there to learn THEIR art, not to continue doing my previous one, it was hard at times though because i just did what i was told and nothing more, many times i wanted to ask if it was ok for me to get bumped up a few belts because i already knew all the basic kicks, and i wanted sometimes to just do a lot more complex kicking and sparring then i was doing. But i decided to just stick with the program and go through all the newbie stages.

It did me good actually, i learned a whole new way of kicking, i havent mastered it yet and i propably kick better the way i did, but i know if i stick with this i'll get a lot better at kicking. Plus there was a lot of footwork (never did ANY footwork, not in wing chun or kickboxing, so that was great).

So i basicly think this is how everyone should approach a new art, even though you might even be able to win some of the higher belts, you shouldnt try to get to higher levels right away, not if you beleave the art your in is going to improve you. If you beleave it will improve you, you should take it from ground and work your way up just like anyone else.

[reemul]

The Shaolin have learned a lot from outside sources of martial arts, however they didn't look at technique and equate it to their own, they learned the theory of the technique and application and then expounded on the concept to creat their own form or training method, not loosing the theory or concept of the original material.

[Royal Dragon]

I know exactly what you mean. Your Akido buddy has frustrated me a few times as well. That's why I was equating Taji with Akido last time I was working with you guys. I was hoping it might plant a seed with him. Now, If I could get him to worry more about "Tucking" his "Tail Bone" and keeping his "spine straight" more than how low he goes, we'd be in buisness.

I have a Kempo freind like that as well. I finally gave up drilling techniques with him because every time we did something Tai Tzu, he "Kempoified" it.

He's a good fighter, so now we just free fight.


Hey KC Elbows, are you in town yet?


Royal Dragon

[David Jamieson]

ok, that's it, first of all, everyone knows that canada has

1.the best martial artists on the planet bar none.(hello... hockey)

2.way better beer than the flavoured water you americans drink (in fact you should be ashamed you even call it beer!)

In fact, you just have Canada envy, admit it. our's is bigger...and cleaner hahahahaha.

peace

p.s, KC, consider this a "counter-jack" and you have now saved face from hijacking your own thread. (I hear americans are prone to doing stuff like that :D )

[tsunami surfer]

People who think they know it all are irritating to those of us that do. Just kiddin.

[EARTH DRAGON]

As they say it is easy to learn but hard to teach. A teachers goal is to take what they have learned from their understanding and convey it to another individual succesfully. This can be very difficult especially when the person wont open up to accepting what it is your are showing them. it is even harder to make a diiferent person move the way you do.
Thats waht teaching is all about for it takes a lot of character to take the time to educate others and the pateince to watch them grow.

I have a mentally slow student in my class that needs an extreme amount of time taken to show him a simple bow stance. He has been with me for 6 months and still has trouble throwing middle punches. He has to be shown every time how to twist the wrist correctly. I asked myself why must I spend so much of class teaching him the same thing over and over. And you know what my self said? becuse thats what makes me a better teacher, anyone can teach someone who is gifted but only a true teacher teaches those who are'nt! that is the sign of character. Take it upon yourself to put him under your wing and show him how to become great.........you will love yourself for it.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I always try to just be the student. It is more entertaining for me that way.

Sometimes though - all the baggage I come with can be a hindrance - especially if I am learning something similar to what I already practice. You can catch yourself falling into comfortable patterns rather than identifying whats new. Doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen.

But I don't think I'd ever demand that I am right. I know I annoy some of the teachers in a class I am taking because they know I know more, but I keep playing dumb because I really want to understand thier method and doctrine without mixing it with what I already do.

Kind of the opposite thing I guess...

[qeySuS]

Kung Lek: Danes are the only ones who know how to brew REAL beer.

TUBORG ALL THE WAY!

[Galadriel]

Hey, what about Belgium????
THE ultimate beer country!! ;-)

Those students that think they know better are a bit annoying. I had one guy telling me how to do a broadsword form, 6 months before he even got to learn the broadsword. I didnt know what to tell the guy, I just gave him an evil glance and he shut up ;-)

Galadriel

[KC Elbows]

I've got to teach class again tonight, so we'll see if I have any difficulties with this student. In his defense, he's got a decent foundation, he's just very hesitant to build up that foundation in new ways. I don't expect too many difficulties, as it's below freezing right now, so most people probably won't show, and he has less problems with his ego when fewer people are around.

BTW, nice to meet you, Galadriel. I'm assuming your name is a LOTR reference. Have you seen the movie?(Good god, I'm hijacking my own thread again, even after Kung Lek went to all that trouble of saving face for me! Thanks anyway, Kung Lek, at least you tried.)

[DelicateSound]

The Ultimate Beer Countries?!?!?!

Have you people ever heard of:

GREAT BRITAIN!

The country that INVENTED beer, that has produced more varieties of beer than any other. The country that has brought us Old Speccy, Newkie Brown, Whitbread, Bombardier, Joules's.

If you count Ireland, we've got Guinness, Murphy's, Caffrey's and many more.

Sometimes... You Yanks....... JESUS!!!! :D

[Royal Dragon]

You know your a good teacher when your students give you $30 cash for Christas!!!

I hope they never find me out!!!!:D

Royal Dragon

[SanHeChuan]

My teacher just started a new and separate tai chi program, and well I’m the highest-ranking student in the old kung fu class, but I missed some tai chi classes and go a little behind a few people in the tai chi program.

Well some guy was practicing a section of the Tai chi sword form we where doing that I had not gotten to yet, but having seen the instructor just do it I thought I’d correct him alittle, but he didn't care for that too much.

Funny when we had all just started together and were at the same place they were asking me for help.

Sometimes i think i try to help too much, and should just let them figure it out with time, but on the other hand i'm having to re-learn some stuff because my teacher let me get away with doing it wrong to begin with.

[Tvebak]

We have one guy right now at the beginners class in capoeira, he has done some kickboxing and it seems his hands are stuck in a boxing position.
Its funny, it seems that he likes capoeira but whenever i tell him to use his hands in the movements he goes like: then im not protected and i will be hit.
Because of this he cannot move good, and ends up reverting to just standing there and being kicked.
I really want to help him, but i think he needs to let go of something within himself.
It s a hard decision to make if you have spendt long time practising something and suddently cant use it.
When i first started out i Xingyi i had to realise that the things that i had spendt years training in another kungfusystem dident work against someone with a correct body structure.
And i was graduated instructor in the other style and was beaten by people who had been training for only a couple of years.
**** that was hard to take, but now im happy that i quit my former school and started from the beginning in Xingyi.

[KC Elbows]

SanHe,

Just a piece of advice. Never correct form that you yourself do not have. Its asking for trouble from fellow students and from your teacher, and the assumption must be made that if the time was used to work on what you do have, you would learn that piece of form sooner and then be the one in need of correction. I'm not meaning to flame, sorry if I come off a little strong, but teaching what you do not know is not helping other students, it is a fundamental error in teaching, for the students must trust that what you are teaching them is something you know intimately. If they later find out you do not know it, you have, by your own actions, eroded the relationship you should be working to build up.

[Galadriel]

Hi KC elbows, nice to meet you too,
yeah, Galadriel is from LOTR, an old nickname given to me ;-)
Read the book, read it again, and again and seen the movie and going to see it again tomorrow ;-)


Delicate sound
------------------

If you count Ireland
------------------

IF you count Ireland???????
the last time I checked we were a seperate entity to Britain!!

But you still cant beat Belgium for beer though!! Have a look at
http://www.zeusnet.gr/brussels/loplop/
for a look at a variety of the best ones ;-)


Ok, back to the topic,
Another problem that also arises is that some students get quite high in a class even if their forms are total c*** and then you have the situation where they are teaching you. One guy is below me in rank and now and again he is sent to teach the beginners (we're only a small class so there is no way around it) while sifu teaches the higher ranked students. The beginners then get thought by him and learn the wrong things and it all comes back to me then to "re-teach" them the proper way.
I try telling the guy what to do but he doesnt listen, I wish I could take a video of him and show him what he acutally looks like doing forms and compare it to the way our sifu does it, it might help??? or not ;-)

Galadriel

[Royal Dragon]

Heck Foot ball tams do it all the time, it's just patr of training to them, If I had a dollar for every time I saw my daughters gymnastic team sitting around the TV viewing themselvs in the last competition I'd be a rich man. Video is a GREAt tool for learning. Heck I video myself and watch the footage just to be sure I'm as good as I feel. You learn alot about yourself when you do stuff like that, I highly recomend it.

RD

[qeySuS]

Maybe i should try to get that video that was taken in USA at the competition. Would be cool to see myself fighting, i'm sure at such an beginners level and having watched a LOT of fights on video i'll see what needs improving :)

Since i collect fighting videos it would be cool to own my own matches on MPG, might try to find that video card.

[tnwingtsun]

We have a God given right to bear arms(some of us,lol)


Ya'll have armed bears.


Plus we can buy and drink more Canadain beer faster than ya'll can make.:D


Yummy stuff!

[SanHeChuan]

KC
I wasn't trying to teach him I was just like, dude when sifu did it he turned his wrist like so, or something to that effect. It wasn't a big correction just something small. Ok i don't remember ecxatly what it was, and he'll probly read this and go na,uh but anyway.