Is there any real point to training??? NOT a troll post....

[MantisKungFu]

Well I'm a newb when it comes to fighting and martial arts, which is probably evident by my question. I'm thinking of joining a local Kung Fu Academy that teaches a variation of Praying Mantis ( www.vermontkungfu.com (http://www.vermontkungfu.com) check it out if you want). I would be joining in about a week or so. Over this waiting period, I've been reading a lot of message boards and running things over in my head. This is what I've been thinking/come up with:

If I train (lets say do classes 2-3 times a week and then train on my own on the other days) would I actually be able to defend myself in a fight after a couple months? I read stories how when it comes down to a fight, it doesn't matter what've you learned and study because it's an entirely new situation. People can't think straight and often can't do any techniques, just acting on instinct. Now I know it is different for each individual, but this seems to be the trend I'm reading about.

So to conclude up everything, is paying $80/month to learn a variation of Praying Mantis worthwhile or would I just be better off to work out on my punching bag, lift some weights, and go for runs. I just want to know what you all think. Thanks,

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"It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

[honorisc]

After you learn the Horse-riding stance (ma bu~) you will be better prepared to defend yourself. Stances are one of the first things taught after or within exercises/basics.

Not everyone who has posted here has my understanding of things Kung-Fu. But it is My say, that you would certainly have the tools to better defend yourself, after within a few months of taking Kung-Fu at that School.

You have to think about the self defense for you on your own. Class is for getting and being directed to hone the tools for defense...

Kung-Fus have lineages. Becomming a member of a legitimate Kung-Fu school chances you a place in History. People who run and lift weights and the such and stay fit tend to have less oppertunity to become a noticable part of a History besides the regular chances~

It's a study in culture, total body coordination, social interaction development at least~.

"So to conclude up everything, is paying $80/month to learn a variation of Praying Mantis worthwhile or would I just be better off to work out on my punching bag, lift some weights, and go for runs. "

You have to decide. It seems likey worth it.~

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[soy]

Kung Fu is a proven martial art. It works. Some things can defeat it, and it really only provides a base of how one should fight. But anyways, that's not really the point behind training martial arts. Atleast not for me.

The point for me is the excercise it provides, flexibility, etc etc..

[Sharky]

you WILL go through a period where you will have been better off with no MA experience. After 2months? THat's a dangerous time, you no longer just react in a fight, but you start thinking what to do next, and by then it's too late. In fights, you should do what is natural.

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[MantisKungFu]

"In fights, you should do what is natural." That is what I thought, so will training in kung fu maybe change what is natural? How long of a time period would that take? Keep the thoughts coming, they are helpful.

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"It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

[old jong]

The best thing to do,IMO,do what you want to do and dont listen to all these trolls who diss kung fu.And...There is nothing bad in using your punching bag and working with weights on the side.
You could even learn from Gracies tapes on the side if you want. Enjoy your Kung Fu. ;)

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[straight blast]

Of course it's better to train. Think of it like this.
If your car breaks down, you can take it to your 16 year old mate who knows "everything" about cars and try and fix it in your backyard. Or you can take it to an expert who has dedicated many years to fixing cars and other such associated problems. Which would you choose?
Personally I choose to go with the person who knows what they're talking about.
Your MA will give you heaps more than just self defence skills. I'd be wary of anything that says that you'll be good in two months. They're just selling something. Stick with it. It's like anything else, the results will come if you give some dedication and hard work.
It won't happen overnight. But it will happen :D

"Pain is merely weakness leaving the body"

[SevenStar]

"would I just be better off to work out on my punching bag, lift some weights, and go for runs. I just want to know what you all think."

In a word - no. I do agree with sharky though... that early in your training can be critical when it comes to fighting. At that stage in most styles, you are not sparring yet, and you are learning alot of new techniques. If you get into a fight during this time, you stand a good chance of getting your head handed to you, as you may be too busy trying to figure out what you are supposed to be doing. However, if you train yourself only, as you stated, you will be training yourself wrong. training to defend yourself with the wrong techniques will only lead to you hurting yourself in the long run. In addition, by training yourself like that, there really will be no progression, as you will never know that you are doing something wrong. you may get stronger, you may get faster, but your skill will never improve, unless you are grappling/sparring with someone, and even then, you will not be as efficient as you can be with proper training.

That being said, train in kung fu. Enjoy it. Work hard. In the end you'll be better for it.

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[diego]

and they wire your system for free

as the cars go BOoOM

if i throw sand in ya face;WILL YOU Blink".

[honorisc]

Cower, run, cry, beg/plead for mercy...?

Because you come against people who trained, whether street or class.

Learn (proven) strategic/effective ways to be, then be natural.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[This message was edited by No_Know on 11-11-01 at 05:47 PM.]

[S.Teebas]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If I train (lets say do classes 2-3 times a week and then train on my own on the other days) would I actually be able to defend myself in a fight after a couple months? [/quote]

Depends on Who your fighting, they system you train in, and how much you think about kung fu. Id say 1 year will give you a 500% improvement on what you are currently doing. See... if you do weights etc and come up against someone who knows what they are doing then id say your in trouble.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> People can't think straight and often can't do any techniques, just acting on instinct [/quote]

Training for a while will train your instinct.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So to conclude up everything, is paying $80/month to learn a variation of Praying Mantis worthwhile or would I just be better off to work out on my punching bag, lift some weights, and go for runs. I just want to know what you all think. [/quote]

I think it sounds like fun! You get so much out of MA. Like meeting new people with similar interest as you, understanding things about yourself you didnt know before, confidence etc...

Also, when you pass the basics and get into the sparring it gets interesting... like a game of chess with your body though!


S.Teebas

[LEGEND]

I don't know much about praying manits and never sparred one...try it and see if it something u can do...u may also want to try boxing, muy thai boxing, wrestling, and bjj.

A

[Sharky]

no know what the FU.CK is your point? You know EXACTLY what i mean, no one else had problems understnading it, sevenstar even spelled it out but you have to appear all ****in mystical and philisophical. TIT.

" I'm in a bad mood "

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[Kung Lek]

well, after a couple of months, you likely won't be the next Mohammed Ali, but you will know that your fists don't do much if the wrist bends when you strike, you'll learn that to kick with the heel will exert greater force into a small area than to kick with the whole flat of the foot and you'll also learn that it is frustrating trying to "sink" your weight to gain root while someone else pushes you in a stance to see if you have sunken correctly :D

You will be doing calesthenics which are good for getting you in shape and you will learn some stances that are designed to optimize you position of strength against an opponent and if your teacher mixes it up a bit to keep you from getting bored, which is standard nowadays, you will likely learn a little bit of grabs holds and releases and a couple of pointers on where to hit someone to stop them.

After about a year, you'll learn a form or two and start to extrapolate techniques from those forms and use them in self defense lessons.

Then you begin sparring in an atempt to understand that which you have extrapolated from form and all the while you are learning a little more each time you practice.

eventually you will have a lot of things to practice and you will have to choose what to practice by that which you know you are weak in.
You'll also have to practice everything else to keep it fresh in your mind and muscle memory.

Basics in my opinion are the most imporatant aspect of any martial art. The basics are the foundation for the house you build upon them.

If your basics are not good, everything else with few exceptions is just as weak.

So, if you don't want to commit to something that is going to take you a long time, then don't bother. You're wasting your time and more importantly, you're wasting someone elses time, your teachers.

Your teacher goes in to class ready to teach, you should go ready to learn.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[rogue]

As Mrs Rogue put it to me after I complained about her spending money on some new outfits...
"You take karate(her term for all martial arts) so you can defend yourself and not get robbed. You never carry more than $20 in your wallet, you don't hang in bars anymore, you live in a good neighborhood and you don't have to fight over me. But you drive to a place 3-5 times a week, come home with cuts, blackeyes, broken fingers and can hardly walk the next day and you happily pay some guy $100 dollars a month to do it."

I hate when she's right. :mad:

Signed,
Rogue, Soke and Senior Grandmaster of Southeast American Brazillian Bagua Combat Chi jitsu Kempo Karate Do and Choral Society. (We are not affiliated with Southeast American Brazillian Bagua Jujitsu Kempo Karate Concepts, or Wan King Fist Kung Fu)

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban

[I]
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, 'To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum

[Khun Kao Charuad]

Mrs. Rogue is correct.

But, to answer the original question of whether or not you will be able to defend yourself after a few months (for arguments sake, let's say 3 mo's) of training.

It depends.

It depends on how your school trains. It depends on how quickly you learn. It depends on what kind of shape you are in now and what kind of shape you are able to get into. It depends on how dedicated you are to your training. It depends on how many hours you put into practicing OUTSIDE of class.

It depends on a LOT of things.

My advice would be to not worry about being able to defend yourself in just a few months training. Any training is better than no training (there may be some that would argue that point, lol).

But, just out of curiosity, why do you want to learn to defend yourself adequately in just a few months? Are you planning on getting mugged or getting into a fight?

Khun Kao

[Merryprankster]

Khun!

Hook me up man! Any word on decent daytime classes within oh, say, a 45 min drive? **** politics! Mike would have been perfect!

[LEGEND]

Holy Shiet!!! Khun Kao is here now??? Well folks we have a legit muy thai instructor in the forum...

A

[SevenStar]

Good post Khun.

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[nospam]

If, by three months, you are not realistically using your basics, then no, you will not be more apt to defend yourself than three months prior.

nospam.

[origenx]

In my opinion, MA is eventually a dead-end. If you stick with it long enough, you might become an old master - but at 60 or 70 are you really going to be out picking fights? The only thing you might want to do at that point is teach.

So, I think in the long-term you will do it for fun and the art itself, or use it as a stepping stone to other areas like say healing or spiritual growth.

[Shaolindynasty]

He studied from Kwan Saihung!!! I say study there, the spiritual elements master Kwan taught...those alone are worth it
For anybody not familiar with Kwan Saihung check out www.easternhealthpractices.com (http://www.easternhealthpractices.org)


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[Khun Kao Charuad]

Merryprankster...

Check out the thread regarding Muay Thai in MD. I've posted all the local MT schools that I am aware of.

Legend...

Do I know you? I mostly lurk here, as Q&A KICKBOXING is my usual haunt. I chime in occassionally if I have something to add...

Khun Kao

[shaolinboxer]

To post to the original question, the only point to training is the one you create for yourself.

[LEGEND]

khun...nah...we never met...but i've seen your post from time to time in UG.

A

[Cyborg]

You've already gotten some great answers. And Old Jong touched on it. Video tapes! They can be a great way to learn. But only if you're dedicated and hopefully have a couple of friends with which to practice. And yes, the Gracie tapes are excellent. All said and done, it really is best to have a good teacher, but you don't have to start at a school. And when you look at the amount of info on a tape it's actually cheaper than a school. :)

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee