Aikido vs. striking arts

[GreyFox81]

i have been studying kungfu for 8 months now and i had went to a aikido class not too long ago alot of thier moves looked unrealistic to me and lloks as if they put alot of emphasis on doing joint locks to the arms or hands. it is very hard to pull off a armbar and stuff cuz alot of people throw little quick jabs now what if i was fighting someone who was practicing aikido i would
just do a whole lot of lowkicks and knee strikes
i just want to know do they have defenses against that and being grappled.

[yuxiang]

Try it out. Ask one of the Aikido students to spar with you. Use the time to test out your theory on low kicking and stuff.
Post your results.

[No_Know]

They might move around your low kicks to the inside or to the outside, then off balance you in some way. If there's a struggle they would likely bring you to a halt with alock from which you could not move or throw you.

Knees would be worse for you to throw to an Aikido doing person. There is more opportunity to off-balance you.

If you are jabbing you are not committed to an attack of significance and are trying to setup for a significant attack with the distraction of a jab or jabs.when you do commit, the aikido player will take your striking limb. They don't have to lock it, merely lead you far enough with it. They don't have problems changing focus or directions, however many times.

If you understood what was going on with a martial art you wouldn't need to go to a school. So please presume that what you see is merely a part and that there are things that are taught, when you are ready to lean them. Yes, you can see the weakness(es) of every single technique. But that is why there is more than one technique. Also, when I do a techniuque I will hit you with it unless you try to exploit one of the weaknesses of that technique. But I am too aware of the weaknesses of that technique and I welcome you comming to me when you exploit my technique weakness. Please note that your technique also has weakness and unlike you, I am aware that you are comming. With that awareness I act appropriately on you faster than you can react.

With propper understanding I personally think that much can be gotten from any martial art. Some martial arts are more user friendly than others. A person is not always ready to know all that the instructor knows. To learn special, fancy, cute, great or specific techniques you need a foundation. While you could mirror the movements in general, your body can't back-up the moves. Either you fatigue or wobble or shake or your grip is poor or weak and your frame is as spaghetti (wet or dry--flimsy or brittle). So to get to the interesting stuff go through the stereotypically considered mundane, tedious, repetitious, low-action stuff. Because it is there that you get the legendary strength, endurance, focus, perception, reation, power..., that you might think is gotten from merely doing the technique. These things Make the technique~ they are the substance.

[Former castleva]

Quick jabs are a hard one for every martial art practitioner,low kicks are even harder.
Aikido has very few defenses against kicks (they usually practise against mae-geri=front kick)
Aikido has lots of excellent defenses against grabs.
Aikido´s basic fighting stance is a good way to stay cool while defending against attacks,such as low kicks or strikes.

[ijedi]

"Aikido is both harmony and love and must never degenerate into mere fighting and competition…From ancient time, budo has never been considered a sport. If there are contests, we must be ready to kill. Those who seek competition are making a grave mistake. To smash, injure, or destroy is the worst sin a human being can commit. The old saying, "The martial deities never kill" is true. Real budo is a Path of Peace." -- Page 94 Abundant Peace: the biography of Morihei Ueshiba [the founder of Aikido]

After studying Aikido for 7 years I realized that Aikido, as it was intended, is not a fighting art. It could be better described as a dance of energy or moving meditation. You must remember that there are many who broke off from O-Sensei and did not continue to teach as they had.

Much of the Aikido I have seen being practiced is ridiculous. In that, they spar with a style that was meant to promote harmony and peace. Not to say that Aikido techniques COULDN’T work in a fight. That’s not what I am saying. ANY technique can work with proper timing and execution. However against a competent fighter someone who has only Aikido training will probably end up in the hospital. If you ever see an Aikidoka enter into a no holds barred competition they most undoubtedly get put down fast. I know this from much experience.

Don’t misunderstand, I love the art and find it has helped me tremendously on my path of life; but a fighting art it is not.

Also, just because you go and visit a dojo don’t think you are seeing the art. For instance when I trained you never saw anything of interest in the open classes. The real training was conducted in closed classes that were not open to anyone who was not a black belt. Yes, that meant that even other students were not allowed to watch.

My advice, engage in conversation with friends that study different styles and conduct your own comparative analysis. Try not to think of technique vs. technique. There is always a counter to a counter, to a counter, to a counter, ad naseum...

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i think of it as another chi na. it's an awesome add-on.

my buddy throws in locks he learned in akido out of nowhere all the time. he doesn't rely on them but he got real good at recognizing the oportunities.

[JWTAYLOR]

I've posted my experiences with Aikidoka here numerous times. Most of them come from friends of mine who studied with Sensei Birdsong here in Austin.

I think it's a great art, but it has a hellova learning curve. A 10 year Aikidoka will do great on the mat and on the street. A 5 year might be worse off than when they started.

As far as grabbing a jab, I've never seen any decent Aikidoka do that. I've seen them slip a jab and take the shoulder quite often, but never grab the wrist itself from a punch.

JWT

[Water Dragon]

I think it's a great art, but it has a hellova learning curve. A 10 year Aikidoka will do great on the mat and on the street. A 5 year might be worse off than when they started.

Yup, that's why I consider chin na an advanced skill. Excellant stuff to learns and extremely applicable, after you learn how to fight.

[rogue]

Slip the jab, glide in and trap the arm, and go for the shoulder lock.

The basic Aikido stance is excellent for when you're waiting for something to happen, great mobility.

[Leonidas]

Not many people are going to get as good Ueshiba because most Aikidoka dont practice Baguazhang like he did. Thats where he got his footwork from and the ability to "dissapear". Thats also what he used to build his "chi", hence the ability to throw someone while bearly touching them. If you want to gain even a small amount of skill like that atleast study some kind of chigung. Most modern Aikido is lacking this. Even places like the Ki Society. They think practicing forms are going to do it. Eventually i believe you'll be able to use it. Find a place like Yoseikan or Tomiki though. The rest is probably just hokey B*llsh*t

[Leonidas]

Whaddya know. My 150th post in just about a month. I,m coming for the leader board:D

[LEGEND]

LEARNING CURVE is too long.

[old jong]

Could it be that : The end of a long curve is a big circle?...;)

[dezhen2001]

the thing you have to remember is that you 'watched' an aikido class - that's totally different from immersing yourself in the art and it's principles.....

The learning curve is very steep, as it is with most things internal...so what? Generally you're not really going to be getting in to that many fights (at least i hope not or you're very unlucky).

The first things you learn - which is one of the most difficult, is to relax. It takes a lot of time in itself, especially if you've trained in another striking based art (boxing, or karate for example). Then breakfalling is also very important. It's saved my a s s many times when i've been knocked over in a scuffle, or even just fallen over.
Most people just see the first and second form techniques (both from wrist grabs). But these are the basis for any arm or leg attacking technique. You have to learn how to move first!

Of course, also it depends on your teacher (as with any martial art skill). How much they show you, how much they let you figure out...you're never going to see anything high level unless you understand the principles of the style - and what is high level is often the simplest thing. They train a lot in armlocking, throwing etc. Aikido came from the use of the sword and defending against a sword wielding attacker. I sure as heck know that i would be keeping a hold of the sword arm if i got the chance! But aikido also includes the tai-sabaki (body movement). How you deal with an attack, move out of the way, take the balance, position yourself for an atemi or technique...it's not just the mad armlock or throw that they use in demos! In fact that's the most important thing......Also good schools should teach Atemi or striking - where and when you should do it before applying a technique etc.

I'm rambling a bit now, but what i'm trying to say is that what you see is often different to what you actually get. Also a lot depends on the teacher, and their ability to pass on the skill.

I trained in aikido for 3 or 4 years, and i had a good teacher. It's saved my bacon a lot of times when i've been in trouble - and that's only usually the basic technique Ikkyo. It's good against many things...

david :)

[Kristoffer]

Aikido is really interesting. Anyone who says:

"BAH! that style is crap, it takes to long to learn, it cant be used for fighting, it sux it sux, my style is better, FIGHT this, FIGHT that, blablabla"

..has REALLY misunderstood the meaning of martial arts. I have wondered for a long time why many here and in the martial artist world is so concerned with styles and the mere fighting. For starters, you have a huge chance of NOT being in a fight, EVER. You will likely never have to 'fight' as what u speak of. Martial arts should, and are being taught not only as a tool in fighting. But also as a way of life. To be healthy, to exercise to keep you fit and long-lived.

My experience with Aikido is very limited but I can respect ANY art for something. Aikido I respect for it's uniqe ways of throwing and joint locking, it's balance and powerfull yet fluidness practioners. I think there is a lesson taught from all martial arts. It is very narrow minded to belive that u are the top of the world, and that your martial art of choice is the "one" and only way too be a good fighter. Hell, take a look at ANY real martial art. come on, right now! pick any, anyone and you will see that it has something that YOU could benifit from. Taekwando? Amazing kicks, fast footwork and agility like madmen!! Do I train TKD? Hell no :) why? because I dont think it has everything I need. But I sure as hell would like to train it to improve my kicking skills.
Escrima? To learn better knife controll. Boxing? To learn how to be hit and stand up against someone in a ring. Yoga? Can u say, rubber man? :D It is not a MA but u can still benifit from it.

If u have all died from boredom, good. On the topic, Aikido is cool. `nuff said

[GreyFox81]

i hope i didn't offend anyone i wasn't trying to downgrade aikido or anything i just wanted to know a little more from people that took it because i had a intrest in training in it. thank you very much for your replies

[les paul]

Many people confuse what they see and don't come to understand what Aikido is.

Aikido really stress controlling the distance in a fight (i.e. ma-ia). In many circumstance (if the space is available) the opponents only recourse is a real committed attack.

Let's not forget that at higher levels "atemi waza" is mixed in (i.e. the art of striking) here one learns to deal with things like the "jab" and "kicks"



I know multiple Aikido techniques were one catches punches (usually hooks and straight blasts to the face etc, but these are usually done from outside your defensive bubble, so you have plenty of time to see it and to react it)

Most Akidoka are taught if the opponent isn't willing to commit to a real attack, then leave the area, because the person isn't a real threat.

This is a hard concept to really grasp. Usually due to one's pride.

For example, the jab doesn't work if your opponent keeps backing up......sooner or later, if your bent on real harm you will have to commit to a real attack. If an Aikidoka can stay at the proper distance waiting for the "real committed attack" then he or she can defend oneself. Sometimes the space isn't available that is why Aikidoka train to slip jabs and kicks, then move in and apply a choke, hold or sweep/throw etc...


Is Aikido "macho" no and wasn't designed to be.

Is it effective? "oh hell yea!" Ask various Police agencies who have instituded Aikido training programs.

But your not going to see many Aikidoka fight in UFC type competitions. An Aikidoka (because of his/her training) would probably jump out the ring and walk away from actual harm, believing both opponents had won the fight because violence wasn't acted upon.

Again is this Macho? Is this the stuff that inspires tuff guys?

No.


However.......... if an experienced Aikidoka gets his hands on you and you don't have control of your root, your going for a serious nasty ride. (Probably to the hospital!!!!)

Aikido is my next love outside Xingyiquan, However, I don't make a great Aikidoka. As most of you know Xingyiquan is very offensive in nature. So I always get the urge to attack instead of hovering outside my opponents bubble and just waiting. Yea, Xingyiquan has some waiting techniques and even some Aikido/Bagua type circular techniques built around the exercise called "Pan Gen." But they are still linear in fashion compared to Aikido or Bagua.

Also, from my Xingyiquan and Aikido experience and the little Bagua I've seen (i.e. the Bagua techniques I'm able to recognize due to my Xingyiquan/Aikido) Bagua seems to perform much of the same strategies as Aikido but at a much closer distance. Also, Bagua seems to me to have a much more in-depth percussive repertoire.

In short, one uses the circular strategy for offense(Bagua) and the other uses it for defense (Aikido)

Les Paul

[Tigerstyle]

"Could it be that : The end of a long curve is a big circle?"

old jong,
Man, I've been telling people that whenever they ask why I only practice a front kick and a thumb-to-the-eye. I say, "When the great masters fight, they only need their basics to defeat opponents." I'm just building on the knowledge and experience of the past. ;)

Talk about efficency too, man! I've "mastered" my style in only a few short weeks! I've reduced the learning curve to a dot! Now everyone can be "Kung Fu Master"!

[Former castleva]

If you want to learn about aikido,aikidojournal.com and stevenseagal.com are excellent places to go for.
aikidofaq.com is good if you are looking for video clips,there are a lot of them!