Sword questions

[Tongue_of_Colibob]

I was wondering if anyone knows what sword techniques were used in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Thanks

Jesse

[yuxiang]

I'm fairly certain they were "ho li wo 'd" fighting techniques.
I don't know much of that style, but I have seen it a lot. The USA channel used to show this style every weekend, but not any more.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Some moves were clearly wudang (for example, the way of circling horizontally the sword over your face while you bend backwards)...but it was just the flavor, or one or two moves lost in the mass, I guess no particular style was used, it was all movie-fu...

[jon]

On the dvd in the making of section it has an interview with Ang Lee, he states that the sword play is Wudang.
Whether or not this is exactly accurate is another matter.
I would go with Crimson Phoenix in saying its basicaly "movie-fu"
Then again not having studied Wudang swordplay im not in a big postion to know:p

[Bak Mei]

I personally prefer the two handed sword for leverage. Internal has a high-level aproach to this method -- match that with the Japanese Katana; and man are you ready for action. My teacher is not so down with things Japanese, but what can be said about the Japanese blade -- a true work of art, a masterpiece.

[GeneChing]

We just had Gao Xian visit us - he was the trainer for Michelle Yeoh, Chow Yun Fat & Zhang Ziyi for CTHD and assisted Yuen Woo Ping with the choreography. Master Gao's roots are in Fanzi, Pigua, and Tongbei. He creates movie-style techniques, adapting them to the actor's capability, but certainly there are influences from his own styles.

[Ben Gash]

Circling the sword in front of your face as you lean back is common in sword forms of most origins. I can think of it in taiji, longfist and CLF forms that I know.

[Crimson Phoenix]

In wudang sword it is done while leaning back as far as you can, almost horizontally...if I ever see a true taiji exponent break his spine and root like that, I'll be darned (that said, the most internal wudang swordplayers I saw do not mind doing it, even if they know this move violates the most basic internal principles...one of them argued that it was still internally acceptable if done in a special way...hmmm...maybe...)...as for CLF, I haven't seen their sword form so I can't say...and the longfist ones I saw do not do it the same way, but then again there are so many longfists...

[GLW]

Crimson Phoenix,

what you describe is one of the many Basic Techniques of Jian (Straightsword). There are roughly 20 or so fundamental techniques that apply to jian...some of them also apply to Dao...

For example, you have for Dao - Chan To, gou Nao...wrap the head, hide the sword...for Jian, the srap the head becomes the circling you describe...and can be done high with a small arch of the back or extreme - leaning all the way back...you will see this heavily used in things like Drunken sword......

The wrap the head from Dao (Broadsword) is not used because it would slice you up...two edges and all....

There are VERY FEW techniques in one style of swordsmaship that are NOT found in other styles....it is just that some styles do not use or empahsize them. Taiji Jian is NOT a good reference since the techniques used, while well developed, does not employ all of the basics movements.

[Nexus]

"basics movements" as GLW said are key in mastering sword skills.

[taijiquan_student]

Actually, one can bend backward and stay connected. It is a basic technique in the Yangjia Michuan style of taijiquan.

Also, Swordforum.com has a good chinese swordsmanship forum for those of you interested in sword.

[Repulsive Monkey]

in Taiji is a big no-no. I've never heard of that one ever, for one it closes the Ming-men in the lower vertebrae thus also causing closure on the Du channel. How can you achieve central equilibrium in Taiji whilst leaning backwards??? I think you ought to have a re-think on that notion. It completely violates at least 3 main principles of Taiji body mechanics.

[GLW]

Considering that the movement referred to is used to redirect and avoid a thrust either with a sword or with something like a spear....and NOT the first choice of moves but an emergency move to avoid getting killed......and that a supple waist and low back is a must for this ...and that when someone is REALLY trying to do you extreme bodily harm with a sharp and pointy object....you get VERY acrobatic VERY quickly....and that if you train for the worst case...with flexibility and balance, you virtually never have to go that far...but being able to may mean living or not.....

I would say that to irrevocably state that something is or is NOT Taijiquan....not really viable...but the question was on sword and NOT Taijiquan....

I used to do a Dao vs. barehand set with a classmate who had NO and I mean ZERO control. I started with the Dao and halfway through, he took it from me.... Over and over it was stated that when I had the broadsword, you could tell that I was holding back to keep from hurting the other guy...but it looked real when he took it...Not because he was any good, but because, if I treated it like I trusted him, I got hit or worse.... ...From that experience, I can tell you that you jump and twist in ALL kinds of ways when someone has a sword of any kind.

To ONLY do those basics that are held in the routines you know means that come the next generation, ONLY the basics you remember will be passed on. SO, how much have we all lost due to this modus operandi...?

[taijiquan_student]

A little off topic from the original post, but anyway...

Repulsive Monkey-- I had (and still probably don't do it right) some trouble understanding the "bending back" thing at first. I think it's pretty much impossible to accurately describe it over the net, too.
The thing is, it looks like you're bending back, but internally you're still connected, and the intent is not one of bending backwards, but of sinking down, rotating the hips, and keeping aligned. The baihui, the huiyin, and the yongchuan are still on a vertical line, but to an observer it looks like you're bending back because even though you're internally aligned, the back is bowed out a little. This is getting way to hard to describe in writing.

You're right. If in fact you were simply bending your back you would be closing the ming men, and wouldn't be rooted or connected.