sensitivity

[whippinghand]

It is understood that chi sau is a sensitivity drill, and thus improves sensitivity.

Keeping the word "sensitivity" in mind, what is the sensitivity for? Why develop it? Why improve it? For what?

[TjD]

to me, sensitivity means being able to react without thinking

with enough "proper" chi sau practice, upon coming into contact with my opponent, my body should react (without thought) and do the best motion to end the fight - thus being as fast as i possibly can

this is a best case scenario

peace
travis

[yuxiang]

Absolutely correct, put the kung fu in the muscles. Let it become instinct.

I have viewed sensitivity training as a kind of a "two for flinching" type game.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Chi Sau is an energy drill which developes ones "sensitivity" to various forms of energy. The benefits are that it allows your body to react much quicker than if you had to think about what you are doing. What I am getting at is that it trains your body to react to various types of force/energy and accept that force by learning not to resist. You can then react appropropriately based on the force not what you think you should do. Chi Sau is a lot more than just arms, it includes the entire body. I have found that Chi Sau allows me to deal with new techniques because I don't worry about the "technique" per se just how the energy from that technique approaches.

Just one opinion :)

Peace,

Dave

[S.Teebas]

Chi sau allows you apply your stongest structure against the opponents weakest structure. The sensivity tells you where he is weak.... and where you should apply your efforts.

Keeping this in mind, structure should be worked on before chi sau.

S.Teebas

[kungfu cowboy]

I think its so you can develop the ability to appreciate romantic movies and love all cute furry animals.

[old jong]

Hello Cowboy. I think this sensitivity must be related to fighting somehow! But it's also very usefull as I find now (after years of chi sau training) that it is hard for me to drop the soap in the shower! Must be that sensitivity!
(Could save you lots of trouble if you end up in prison!):eek:

[kungfu cowboy]

:D Hey old jong! We'll, I'll be sure to stay out of prison!

Regarding sensitivity, I think that its cool to train your brain and body to respond to minute changes in intent, and to really extend awareness into the body. I'd like to see how much survives in a real fight though. There are so many factors that must be there for wing chun to be effectively applied. I hope I can get to that level.

[old jong]

I'm sure you will Cowboy!:cool: To be able to learn is assuming not knowing everythings!;) I think good sticking comes from good chi sau techniques where there is constant equalisation of forces from the "opponent/training partner" combined with a delicate forward and also constant motion from the practitioner.
This way , you can be as calm as a long horn eating his dinner and still feel the slightest force imput by the other guy.
;)

[KenWingJitsu]

Sensitivty, yes, but most of the examples given are vague.

A better answer would be "kinesthetic tactile sensitivity". Say that 3 times heh heh.

Basically, chi-sao trains you to react instinctively to the moment in time when your arms 'touch' your opponent and he tries to obstruct the path of your hits/strikes. The contact (touch) gives you the info to react to.

[vingtsunstudent]

sorry folks
maybe it's just me(but i hope not) but i'm sure chi sao has taught me a whole lot more about fighting than just when my arms(or anything else) come into contact with my opponent & how to deal with that force.
if you think about it, the sensitivity gained & response to the opposing force, altough it is a large part of it, really is still just a small part of it.
a few examples are lat sau jik chung(continuous foward energy even when stepping backwards is of the utmost importance), angles of attack & correct technique against pressure.
vts

[whippinghand]

I'm still waiting for your one-sentence reply.

[TjD]

the question was about sensitivity, not chi sau :)

so to reiterate, what is sensitivity (to you)?


peace
travis

[TjD]

and (at least to me) sensitivity is only one part of what good chi sau can improve... we can save the rest for another thread... perhaps one on structure, or footwork, or power generation, or any of the plethora of things good chi sau can teach :)


peace
travis

[vingtsunstudent]

i understood the post-
'Basically, chi-sao trains you to react instinctively to the moment in time when your arms 'touch' your opponent and he tries to obstruct the path of your hits/strikes. The contact (touch) gives you the info to react to.'
i'm sure ken knows that there is more to it than just the sensitivity, however many times on this forum i see people talking about how it is primarily a sensitivity exercise & i just wanted to say that i don't look at it that way.
hey, don't get me wrong the way you learn to FEEL & move with that feeling is awesome, i just don't see it as the main goal of chi sao but an equal part of a whole.
sorry to have moved off topic a bit.
vts

[Danny T]

What it means to me.

One listens to their body. The limitations of the visual sense make information received by the eyes concerning the intentions of an opponent difficult to understand and is often misleading. During any activity, reports from the motor and nerve sensors in the skin, joints, and tendons provide information to the practitioner in the body's own language. This is a language the muscles respond to. These reports come from pressure and movement perceived by our motor and nerve sensors. This language or inner-body communication is a key element to finding the correct solution in any fighting situation. This is developed through listening to the body. By listening, one must internally be very quiet, by listening, one 'FEELS', and learns to detect, discover, becomes aware of, pays attention to - EVERYTHING which happens within the body while the body is performing. Even something as simple as turning the hand can affect and connect through ALL aspects of internal and external structure, right down to the feet.

Once able to listen to the body talking one must be able to interpret what the body is saying thereby enhancing one's ability to sort useful information from non-useful any time contact has been made with the opponent. This is very important simply because visual information is too slow and not always reliable. Anyone who has enjoyed a magician has witnessed how easily the visual sense can be deceived. One must learn to interpret the opponent's actions before an effective response can be made.

The net result is the body speaking to itself in its own language. The practitioner becoumes more fluent in the language the body speaks and is then able to feel the opponent's lines, balance, force and energy. Once the practitioner actually feels the body talking and is able to understand what is being said, they can respond appropriately. Yet, to even know this, one must be able to differentiate between the different aspects of stress, tension, relaxation, letting go, holding connection, grounding; and overall body mechanics etc.

It is amazing when I correct a students punch, and I say; "relax the shoulder," and I get a reply like; "I am.' I then say; "Relax some more, try." Then their shoulder drops another inch or so...

The next expletive is usually, "Wow!" Simply amazing how many, many find it difficult to really know what their body is doing.

So, this poses another question: Daily decrease? What does this really mean? Many interpret 'daily' decrease as the elimination of unnecessary or inefficient technique. It is much, much more, decreasing is the elimination of the unnecessary... What is unnecessary, what is removable, what can make for more efficiency?

A large part of this equation is found in the learning to understand and feel our own body. To listen deeply to our body and to learn from our body.

Regretably, very few will ever truly attain this ability.


Danny T

[KenWingJitsu]

"i'm sure ken knows that there is more to it than just the sensitivity, "

Absolutely. There are many more things, but for simplicity's sake I'll just call them "good habits". I.e CHi- sao teaches you good habits which could also be good structure. If it wasn't for chi-sao, i'd never know the value of keeping my hands up and in front at ALL times....even when the p00 hits the fan.

[yuanfen]

Ken:
Correct. Lots more to chi sao than sensitivity. You mentioned
your hands being automtatically being up front. Lots more
goodies in chi sao that are often ignored.

Actually EVERY principle or concepts should come alive in chi sao.
Similarly no effective chi sao without learning the concepts and
structure and motion in Yip Man wing chun.
I know I know --- some folks dont do much if any chi sao- that
is not my route anyway and see no advantage in going that route either..
Taebo without boxing concepts and training doesnt prepare one for boxing either even though the "bo" is slipped in there..

[rubthebuddha]

only GOOD chi sau teaches good techniques. i've seen lotsa people whose sloppy chi sau hurts their basic technique -- even their form. eek.

[Spectre]

Sensitivity is important to feeling the intent/energy of your opponent.

Being able to counter or 'cut off' an opponent's offensive move as quickly as possible is intregal to shutting down your opponent and ending the conflict.

The more sensitive you are, the quicker you can react and accomplish your goal of disabling your opponent.

If your adrenaline is pumping during a fight, then your senses tend to 'dull' - taking it longer for your body to recognize and react to intent/energy. The more sensitive you are, the better prepared you will be when those capacities diminish.

Just a small part of things, but still very important.

Kevin

[Tomhands]

I think it's a problem to reduce chi-sao to "arm programming"--as if the fists, hands, or elbows were only projectiles to be launched or obstructed at ideal angles.

Like a few people on this thread have said, structure and power-through-structure (the bones, man!) should come first.

Yes, chi-sao is sensitivity training, but not only sensitivity from shoulders to hands. As you step forward and back, shift, lift, drop, drive, and yield, you should be training sensitivity from hands through elbows, shoulders, spine, hips, knees, feet, and the ground (which weighs much more than you or your opponent!).

[whippinghand]

tjd, since you think that sensitivity is just a reactionary thing, tell us what are the other things that "good chi sau can improve".