vegitarianism effecting weight training and building mass

[CanadianBadAss]

hmmm... You guys are always answering the same questions to skinny little teenagers who want to be buff and chances are half those punks gave up after a week of training anyway... Yes thats right I too am a skinny teenager, I tried looking through some older threads, But I couldn't find any info on what to-do if your mom is a psycho health nut vegetarian(she runs marathons and whatnot, and every time we go some where she parks like 4 miles away just so we can all get some extra exercise). And I'm also aneemic (spelling?), so the whole vegetarian thingy doesn’t help that out to much...
Any way for Christmas my bro got this work out machine, and we already have a punching bag and tons of free weights. I plan on entering some fighting competitions this year, so I want to build up some mass. I'm almost 16, 155 lbs, 5 foot 10, my bro is 6"5 and my dad is 6"4, so I still think I have a bit of growing left... Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated,
Thanks.

[IronFist]

hmmm. I'm confused, but probably because I couldn't concentrate to read your post because I'm bumping some progressive metal right now and my whole house is shaking.

Are YOU the vegetarian? Or is it your mom? Who wants to put on mass?!

Iron

[CanadianBadAss]

I do, i think i said that some where... And my moms a vegitarian I'm not, but my mom buys the food and does all that cooking stuff, or she tells my dad what to make, and it never has any meat in it, so I was sort of forced into this vegitarian thingy... But i'll eat meat any chance i get... and hopfully I'll be able to move out in a couple of years, and i will eat all the meat i can

[SevenStar]

LOL, that's a messed up situation to be in. Beans have a nice amount of protein in them. Also, you can do some of the shopping yourself. Do you get an allowance or anything? If so, go buy some chicken breasts. They are simple to cook, and you can find them on sale all the time. If you need some recipes, you can find several sites on the net. Try http://www.foodnetwork.com/ and http://www.epicurious.com

[IronFist]

oi. Ok, I'm about to go work ou but I thought I'd throw this comment in real fast.

Beans are not necessarily a good source of protein. One type of beans, I believe it is soy, is a good source of protein. The rest of beans all have incomplete amino sequences which basically means your body can't use any of the protein unless you eat something else with the beans to complete the amino chain. Usually this can be acomplished by eating it with rice, but there might be exceptions.

I'm not well versed on beans because my family makes dishes with meat in them :D But really tho, would your mom care if you ate chicken? I eat chicken all the time. Chicken, fish, poultry, pork, but I don't eat beef, as in like, cow, just because it's the most taxing thing on your system to digest.

What about eggs? Would your mom care if you guys bought eggs? Eggs can have bad cholesterol and fat for some people, but they're a decent source of protein. I think one egg is like 8 grams? Well, I guess that's not that much, but it's something. Milk has 1g protein per oz. That's good, actually, if you drink a milk throughout the day.

You know what else has a lot of protein?

PROTEIN SHAKES!!!!! Yeah!!!!

Would your mom care about those? Oh yeah, DON'T buy "Egg protein" shakes because they STINK. I'd start with a smaller container first, so you can sample the flavor. In fact, you may want to check out www.proteinfactory.com.

**** this post is longer than it was supposed to be. I gotta start going to the gym earlier. Hope this helped.

Iron

[UberShaman]

Stock up on canned tuna, also get some cottage cheese and eat it before you go to bed, Cottage cheese is excellent muscle building food it digests very slowly so it feeds your body over a longer period of time. Also dont throw out the watery liquid that builds up on the surface, thats whey and you know how good that is for you.

[iron thread]

I think rice is supposed to be a good supply of carbohydrates....

[iron thread]

Hey, what the hell are u doin trashing teenagers for???? I am serious about my training, and I've been doing my training ever since the 6th grade....so up urs fool, my serious trainin started last year too...

[SevenStar]

Lighten up dude, he's a skinny teenager too. It's okay for him to trash them if he acknowledges that he's one too. It's the real a§§holes like me that are mesomorphs and have been buff since birth that shouldn't be trashing you guys. ;)

Ironfist, Yeah, I agree that beans isn't the best source, but If he can't get meat in the house, what's he gonna do? Hopefully though, his mom will let him cook chicken if he buys it for himself. and since when do protein shakes have protein? :)

[CanadianBadAss]

I may be a teenager, and I probly would be considered skinny compared to you body builders; But I'm actually pretty big compared to most kids in my grade, in my height and shoulder width that is. And with the kind of clothes i wear, no one can even tell my arms are as scrony as hell.
I like the cottage cheese idea, cottage chees is good... And the milk shakes also seems like a good idea(do you guys put eggs and chicken and stuff in there too?). And we do eat fish once in a while, but im alergic most of that stuff... thanks for the replies.

[lowsweep]

TUNA
tuna tuna tuna
I eat 2 cans a day. Doesn't taste bad after a week or so and 27 grams of protein a can makes it worth it. Eat your tuna!! Also, get some good protein drinks and stock up on beef jirky (if you can). Lots of protein in most kinds of beef jirky. Also, eat complex carbs, such as rice and pasta. If you start lifting weights, stick to heavy compound movements and you will build much faster. Visit this thread for advice on lifting: powerlifting (http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=6228&highlight=my+advice+from+an+expowerlifter)
good luck!

[ElPietro]

Don't be fooled into consuming soy protein. It's simply evil, and is what all the vegetarians have fooled themselves into thinking is a good source of protein.

You don't HAVE to consume all that much meat, if you could get maybe 3-4 meals in a week that are from chicken or fish, maybe throw in some beef you should be ok. Take a multivitamin, and supplement with a protein shake post workout. Cottage cheese is good, as well as egg whites, tuna (although I can't stomach it).

Marathon runners are pretty much the exact opposite of what you want to model yourself after. Ever seen marathon runners with muscle mass? No you don't because 90% of their muscle has atrophied and they have the strength of little schoolgirls because they have no fast twitch musculature.

Just become more conscious of what is in what you are eating and decide on a percentage of what you want each group to be. Maybe 40/40/20 would be ok for you being carbs/protein/fat. Fat is good for you as long as it's not crappy saturated stuff. Eat your cottage cheese with a tablespoon of flax seed oil and you'll have a good breakfast or before bedtime meal.

[Repulsive Monkey]

People adhere to this practice for a number of different reasons and yes, some people even have it forced on them. I personally through a considered choice have decided to go back to to including meat in my diet as I feel it is a healthier diet to have. Vegetarian diets (due to cutting out of meat) seem to lack the bulk type quantities of Vitamin B12, which usuallu reults in brittle bones, blood thinning, poor complexion (quality and colour) and poor spine strength. These things espcially the poor spine strength are not absolutes yet if you are planning to enter into fighting competitions are factors which will hardly aid you in your health and fighting abilities.

[Leonidas]

No offense but what kind of BS is that. A person doesn't have to eat meat to be healthy. Alfalfa sprouts have more protein than any slab of meat. Almonds and sesame seeds are very high in calcium. Milk and all dairy products are not very good for your health. They have carcinogens, which causes cancer. Is it any wonder that more than half the people in the World are allergic to it. Isn't it funny that Humans are the only species that drink Nursing Milk from other speices. Cows no less. Camel milk is more healthy for you and there is nothing wrong with Soy. I'm thinking of becoming a Veggiehead myself with maybe some fish or chicken but mainly because i was raised on it. Eventually i'll stop that. Look at it this way. If a cow or chicken eats VEGETABLES for nutrients, that's for PROTEIN, CARBOHYDRATES everything, and you eat them, why would it be bad for you to skip the "middleman" and make your diet of completely healthy foods. Of course you wouldn't eat beans only for protein. Thats a sure way to break a hip. Just like you wouldn't survive on meat alone. There are a MILLION different foods out there besides meat that people can survive on. You have to research different types of foods. SeaWeed for instance is great for protein and it's tastes excellent prepared properly. I'm a firm believer that humans weren't really meant to eat meat An example of healthy living at work. A man named Dr. Paul Bragg who was a vegetarian and nutritionist never ate meat and he died at the AGE of 96 from a surfing accident. But the thing is when they performed an autopsy they found he had the body of an 18 year old. There are many cases like this. You think you have it bad. What about being raised on an unhealthy diet. With any luck me and half the people raised just like me wont die at 50 or 60. Could Millions of people in Asia be wrong. They have longer lifespans than us and the only thing keeping half the people alive here is America's healthcare. No matter that some of us live long lives as well, up to 70. What about being bedridden and half dead for 10 of those years. Quality over Quantity right?

[Repulsive Monkey]

I find it a tad unnerving that you say my comment is Bull, wehn you comments have little to do with mine. I was making a direct and solitary issue about Vitamin B12, and it's effects when not quantitively included in a diet which CAN (but not always) be lacking in vegetarian diets. All the other things you said make good sense and i do not decry them, yet you response still seems a little unbalanced and has yet to question the issue of B12. I think your case which seems a little unrelated to wehat I said initially seems substantial, all I'm saying that is that eating meat can be a healthy diet. My experience and research/study especially within Chinese Medicine brings me to believe that including meat in your diet is definitely good thing. In fact most Chinese Doctors will tell you that too. Why should be force ourselves not to eat it? Eating habits within a particular diet is another completely. I beileve a sensible diet containing meat is a more healither one than just erradicating meat full stop from your diet. Statistics indicate that vegetarian diets tend to house more blood deficiencies and spleen and possibly Liver deficiencies within people, and all seem to be rectified by including a limited amount of meat in their diets. Meat can be a very healthy factor to ones diet. If however it is on moral/religious etc. grounds that one abatains then fair enough, or maybe someone chooses a very secular and sedentary lifestyle.

[Leonidas]

Not specifically talking to you Repulse. Just people who say you need meat to be healthy. I'm sure your right about the B12 thing. If my post seems a bit unbalanced i'm just responding to the many posts that i disagree with by writing short sentences. I know i was jumping around a lot. Anyhow thats just the way i feel and i'm not trying to start an argument.

[ijedi]

Hello,

ElPietro, I applaud you!!! You have done some good research and are spreading the wealth. Especially about the flaxseed oil and marathon runners.

>One type of beans, I believe it is soy, is a good source of protein.

Soy protein is high in estrogen and is not a good source of protein. It can give you a hormonal imbalance and is not very good for your brain chemistry either.

Remember that you are not only fueling your body, but your mind as well. Why do you think that the women of this country are experiencing depression at a rate 5 times that of any where else in the world? DIET!

>Chicken, fish, poultry, pork, but I don't eat beef, as in like, cow, just because it's the most taxing thing on your system to digest

I would put protein sources in this order: fish, beef, poultry, dairy (as in eggs), then pork. I do not endorse eating pork because of the quality of most meet. It is not very high in nutrients that promote good neurotransmitter productions.

This is the main reason why you should eat beef. It has many things in it that are good for various neurotransmitter production.

>Stock up on canned tuna

TUNA, TUNA, TUNA. Go for albacore.

>beef jerky

Stay away from this stuff. This is a processed snack food that contains many damaged fats.

>stick to heavy compound movements and you will build much faster

If this young man has never worked out before he requires a year or two to build up to lifting heavy loads. A good circuit training routine would be the best route (generally speaking). Too often people get the idea that you can just jump right in and start lifting heavy.

This is the number one reason why so many football players and wrestlers don’t make it out of college without a major knee or shoulder injury. Not enough acclimatization to the resistance that is used. Joints, tendons, and ligaments have a much slower adaptation rate than do muscles.

Leonidas, I have a few bones to pick with your post (pun intended):

>Alfalfa sprouts have more protein than any slab of meat

This is wrong! You are misunderstanding the physiology involved. Plant proteins cannot be utilized by the body as animal proteins can.

>Milk and all dairy products are not very good for your health.

Says who? The American Medical Association? Let me tell you they are more interested in economics than health. Read the literature and you will find that a lot of the cholesterol hype is based on inaccurate studies.

>Isn't it funny that Humans are the only species that drink Nursing Milk from other species

Isn’t it funny that humans are the only species that codified fighting systems based on how animals fight?

>there is nothing wrong with Soy

Again, you need to understand that the United States is the number one producer and distributor of soy in the world. Of course they are going to get the medical community to produce a lot of studies that support eating this food source. The bottom line is, it is not good for you if you are an athlete or a martial artist.

>Could Millions of people in Asia be wrong.

Could millions of people in Asia be starving? China simply does not have the land and fields to feed their extremely large population meat. You think we eat a lot of meat in this country? Not as much as you might think. What do you really think is in the hamburger that most people consume?

You would find that if you simply cut out fast food, and all processed food in general, you would be so much healthier.

So let’s stop debating about eggs vs. fish, meat vs. vegetables, and face the fact that it is the processed foods that are killing Americans at the tremendous rate of heart disease.

However, I think stress is even a larger enemy. But that is for another thread.

Thanks.

[IronFist]

I said:
>One type of beans, I believe it is soy, is a good source of protein.

To which ijedi replied Soy protein is high in estrogen and is not a good source of protein. It can give you a hormonal imbalance and is not very good for your brain chemistry either.

Uh, I believe what I said was that soy beans are the only beans that contain complete proteins and therefore are the only beans from which your body will obtain protein without requiring other foods.

I've never heard the estrogen thing before, but I imagine you would have to eat a LOT of soybeans before any increases in estrogen would have any significant effect.

Yawn.

Iron

[hkphooey]

CanadianBadAss

i was a vegetarian for 8 years, and trained pretty hard the whole time. a year ago i added fish back to my diet. i can say that i was able to pull it all off ok, but i had to REALLY work at it. and when i didn't, the deficiencies showed up in a hurry and my performance dropped.

there is already a lot of point-counterpoint in this post...no need to add to it all. besides, i'm a work. =)

so, it might be do-able, but if your mom's in charge of the menu, it's going to be extremely difficult for you...

sorry..can't get more specific now...

[TigerJaw]

It is worth pointing out that if you have some more growing to do, your growthplates in your muscles will be weak and the connective tissues in your limbs can be under strain.

So what?

You should not do any heavy weight or isometric stretching until you have stopped growing. It is possible to cause horrible injuries by doing too much strength training at too young an age, you can also inhibit bone growth.

As for the anemia, get some liver and onions down you, yum!

Phill

[ElPietro]

In pretty much every thread where someone young, under the age of 17 or 18 asks about training I believe we have always recommended to take it lightly for the time being. Yes intense strength training can stunt growth somewhat or cause injury. There are still ways to go to failure without using weight anywhere near your max rep though. But again don't be doing too much...at that age you are still growing and who knows how you'll end up.

[BeiKongHui]

I think stress is even a larger enemy


Now this is the most factual quote in the whole thread.