kwan saihung

[redfist]

have any of you ever studied with him?

the subject of the "wandering taoist" books.

[redfist]

or,
have you ever read the book"chronicles of tao",

if so what did you think?

[taijiquan_student]

Great book. I think it's really cool. Just beware--they try and make it seem like that book is actually a biography of him and his life. It's not. It's a work of fiction. But cool nonetheless.

[MonkSanTe]

I actually received this book for Christmas, I'm about half way through it. So far it is excellent. Does anyone know if the author has written any other books, and if so, are they any good?

[maoshan]

Peace All
deng ming Dao Is his seinor student.
he also wrote:
The scolar warrior and 365 days of the Tao, Both are very good.

I studied with him in the mid 90's.
His knowledge is beyond. Period.
He's the only man I know of alive that holds lineage from some of Chinas top legends. Yang cheng Fu, Fu Chen Sung, Sun Lu tang
Wang Zi Ping and 2 others i can't remember. If you can learn from him I suggest that you do He knows things that most modern instructors don't. Last I know, he was living in massitussis(Excuse the spelling)
Peace
Maoshan

[GLW]

Kwan's lineage is not what he claims...but it makes good press....

I know of two of your instances that are 100% false....

There are direct descendants of those he claims to have learned from in the US...check with them about hs credentials....

Whether or not he is any good....claiming a lineage that is not rightfully yours is something less than honest....

[redfist]

would one of these claims be wang ziping?

i noticed you were from houston,tx. , do you know wang jurong?

i was wondering who the other claim may be,

i thank everyone who replied to this post.

[GLW]

Kwan Saihung was not one of Grandmaster (Tai Laoshi) Wang Ziping's students.

[redfist]

i have always suspected this book was part fiction,
there is no way to veify his linage,other then his word,
i wonder who he really did train with,

any ideas?

it was a good book to read,i would recommend it but,
the author writes it like it`s a fact,i have strong suspicions that this is not the case.

you can easily come away with the idea that kwan is 10 feet tall.

[maoshan]

GLW,

Maybe your right, I don't know.
What I do know is he taught with authority and knowledge.
Besides, My only interest was Ba-Gua and what I got from him I've able to conferm throught other sources.
From what I know of the book, it was based on his life.
and being a true taoist, his true story will always be hidden.

Peace
Maoshan

[Eight Diagram Boxer]

http://www.easternhealthpractices.org/

I've also heard he's a fraud though, so beware.

[kungfu cowboy]

Wow, he looks great for 65 !!!

[redfist]

is he 65?
he would have to be that if he studied with the people he said
he did,did he?
i did enjoy the book but,there is a difference between cross
referencing the material taught and the lineage,
taoist or not,is there not a certain amount of responsibility
on the teachers part to be able to cleary demonstrate there lineage?
other then line drawings,which were in the original versions of
of this triology.
for example,on the website "whisper beautys tai chi garden" he released a statement that the book was part fiction, which part? and, that he was now going to write an autobiography,essentially it seems,beggining to back off his original story,
whats next,how about he didn`t know what deng ming dao wrote
and therefore not resonsible for what the book says,
that would be 18 years since the first book was released in 1984.
thats just a guess,
i thank everyone who has taken the time to post on this thread.

[kungfu cowboy]

Kwan Sai-Hung was born in ShaanXi province 1920.

The caption under the pictures said they were taken in 1985! So now he would be 82 !!

[GLW]

"From what I know of the book, it was based on his life.
and being a true taoist, his true story will always be hidden. "

I wish I had known that would work when I was a kid....

Picture it. Football on the floor with a lot of glass...a broken lamp...and my mom asking me in my room if I broke the lamp. I say NO....

Then she calls me to the living room...points out MY football in the parts of the broken lamp...and I say...."That may be, but its OK mom, I am a Taoist...."

A true Taoist may not talk about his past..such things are not important at all to a true Taoist...but likewise, lies about ones past are not Taoism.

[GreyMystik]

i spoke to my sifu this week about this subject, his opinion seems to be that although some things are questionable about Kwan Saihung, his qigong is authentic...
not sure if this helps, i don't want to go into too much detail, but there were a few examples given about the 'questionable' parts.

[redfist]

interesting,

so the story is the book is fiction but the chi kung is not?
where the discrepancys historical in nature?
it is easy to hide at least 12 years in the way the book was written.
did your sifu ever meet kwan saihung?
to claim to be a part of a lneage that you are not can be a serious
issue among traditional sifu.he not only claims to have trained with certain high level martial artists but,is a disciple,which indicates that he is a standard bearer or inheritor,therefore if this is true,he has vowed to certain responsibilitys to see that these
systems are passed on before he does.
to live in seclusion as a taoist (he does ,according to the book represent taoism and lives in seclusion) and to do this seems contradictory,
as does obscureing facts about your personnel history,therefore
causeing perspective students to lose faith,you can not hide the truth forever,i do not know how he could start out being one person and then become another over a course of time without the student loseing faith.

the bottem line,the book is fiction,he claims it as a biography,
it was written to make money and so it did.

my question is,do you think this is ethical?

[Nexus]

Talking about your past does not taking away from who you are, its means is helping others understand who they are. The tao is defined by the practitioner.

[redfist]

i would like to thank everyone who has taken time to post on this thread.
your insights have been invaluable,
i felt that these questions needed to be asked.
they where generated by kindness toward all of my fellow martial artists.
no disrespect was intended,
i am certain kwan saihung is a fine teacher and a practioner of the highest level of the taoist arts as revealed in scholar-
warrior,a very accessable book,clearly explaining foundation practices.

[count]

For Internal Boxer

[Shaolindynasty]

It's a Daoist tradition to create stories to teach the philosophy. I don't think the book was written to make money, after all writers don't make much at all. For instance there is allot of magic and other stuff in that book to.

My sifu trained with Kwan saihung and that is where allot of the qigong we practice came from. As far as lineage goes, I don't think he ever actually claimed to have entire systems by those masters mentioned but to have studied with them breifly. I don't think the descendants of those masters can name every practioner who "dropped by". In the instance of Wang Zipang he was only with him long enough to learn Tan Tui I beleive. That doesn't make someone a lineage holder he was just listing some of the masters he studied under breifly. I guess it would be like saying in addition to studying Taoism and martial arts on Huashan and Wudang I also attended seminars with these guys.


The pictures on that site are pretty good. He didn't look that young in the video my sifu has of one of the retreats he did with him.

[redfist]

i think that story telling is an excellent teaching method,
used in many traditons,not taoism alone,
however i beleave it should be prefaced with the fact that
it is a story and not a biography,at which point any reasonable person would interpretate the story literally.
in my opinion this is what is meant to happen,
and where my skepticism arises.
to put a "label"on this book i think it should be termed a
fictional - biography,the reading definitely gives you the escense
of the times and on that point it is a book i would highly
recommend but,
if you spend any time reflecting on or researching this work i think you will find that it should not be taken literally.

to shaloin dynasty,i have a question,

your sifu once trained with the venerable kwan sai hung,is he still a student or have they parted ways?

[Shaolindynasty]

I agree the book is a fictional biography. It's based in fact but if you read the book there is allot of stuff in there that is fiction. Some of that stuff is very imaginative so i guess they just assumed that people would take it as such. That and most taoist tales are never said to be fiction or fact and I guess it just adds to the confusion.


About my sifu- My sifu studied with Kwan saihung a short time. When he first moved to the usa he lived in NYC and studied with him there. He moved here to help his first sifu teach and that was the cause of him leaving saihung. I guess my sifu never continued to study under him cause he said all he wanted to learn was some qigong from him, he also learned some kungfu like Tan Tui but he forgot it soon after cause according to him it was "useless" compared to the style learned from his first sifu. Oh he did keep a straight sword form from him to, I am not sure where it comes from but I think it could be wudang. Until I find out for sure though I am not going to say either way.


Just so you guys know Sifu Kwan does not teach to make money. He doesn't make a living from kungfu or taoism. He teaches kungfu because it's his "pastime" and practices Taoism because it's his life.

[Internal Boxer]

I must say I find the book a da.mn good read, but when I think how it is being portrayed as a biography, it is quite heartbeaking, as to me its just another example of another nail in the coffin of internal martial arts, it is understandable why external MA laugh at the IMA and often do not take us seriously. It makes me quite ashamed.

Maybe paradoxically it is the taoist sense of humour. Who Knows?
(Big sigh, with head in hands)
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(