Striking better than submission on the street?

[Ryu]

Now that you've all rushed in here with angrered/joyous faces, let me explain.

This is not a standup vs ground thread, this question is for everyone, but I want to hear from the grapplers especially.

If you take a fight to the ground in a streetfight, do you feel it is more realistic and damaging to pound with strikes and break away, or look for a submission? I do think chokes are effective for self-defense, but I'm thinking about a streetfight where you don't want to be fighting long, etc. Do you think ground and pound is the quickest and most efficient? Or armlocking, (breaking) etc?

Ryu

http://home.vobis.net/user/roy/anime/images/streetfighter15.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Jeff Liboiron]

i'm no grappler, but i believe if a fight goes to the ground a broken arm is gonna stop your opponent a lot quicker than a punch in the head

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

[fgxpanzerz]

Striking is a much higher and safer art than grappling. If you go to the ground with one guy, then the guy's friend is gonna pound you while yor ankle locking him. While standing and striking though, you have more options on multiple attacks and attacking in general.

[Merryprankster]

It depends.

I'm with you, I'd prefer to choke in that situation, but if I don't have time for that, I'd say it depends my assessment of the situation:

Can I run? Near the door of the bar? In the parking lot? If so, knee on belly, throw down long enough to make the guy think about covering up, keep my options open and bail at the first hint of space.

If I am enclosed:

Is there a weak person in the hostile people surrounding me while I'm in the open? Is there the "small guy?" a woman, or somebody that seems scared near the door? Assume I'm already on the ground with somebody, and there's one of those "fight circles" going on. I'd knee on, throw down, and then try to go THROUGH that little guy, with throws and strikes because he's my best chance of breaking out and bailing.

If I am enclosed and indoors with little chance of egress, like the corner of a bar and the crowd looks like it can be cowed a little bit, I'm going to the armbar and telling them if they take one step closer, or if my opponent moves, then I'll break the arm. I'll start shouting for help and 911. Police are my friend... and so's the bouncer. Bars and clubs don't like violence, (at least the ones I frequent). It's bad for business.

If I am enclosed and indoors with little chance of egress, and the circle of friends looks drunk and angry, I'm breaking that arm ballisticly, bootstomping their face, and getting up for my next opponent.

[joedoe]

My philosophy in any fight is to end it as quickly as possible. Mind you, I haven't really been in that many fights so I might be talking crap.

However, I do believe that in a real street situation, do whatever you need to do to end it quickly and get out of there alive (and hopefully free of trouble from the law).

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[Ryu]

That's true, Jeff.
But my question is on time I guess... if you can break that arm quick, awesome. But what if the guy is strong and has some common sense about grappling? And people are coming, etc. You're tired, etc.

http://home.vobis.net/user/roy/anime/images/streetfighter15.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Ryu]

MerryPrankster, good post.

Keep them coming, guys.

Ryu

http://home.vobis.net/user/roy/anime/images/streetfighter15.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Badger]

Try to choke him out first(less damage)
If he resists or you have to finish fast Ground & Pound then choke his sorry butt out.

Ground & Pound is the big weakness of Sport BJJ.Playing with the guard or going to the turtle position can be very hazardous.


Badger

BJJ is Superior to Mullets!G

[Martial Joe]

I would say whatever you are capable of doing quicker...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[Chris McKinley]

It helps to first understand what your primary objective is...namely, to survive long enough to escape. Sometimes that point is so obvious, it gets overlooked. In a real street encounter, your objective is NOT to "win", or otherwise defeat the attacker. It is to render him unable to harm you long enough that you can affect a safe escape.

Running TOO early may get you chased, or even shot in the back. Sticking around to win the fight may likewise get you hurt or killed, especially if he has friends and/or pulls a previously concealed weapon.

With your highest priority clearly in mind, you can now begin evaluating tactics in a useful way. While it is true that many fights, perhaps even a majority, can eventually end up either on the ground or at knee level, it's worth noting that that same likelihood does NOT always apply to self-defense scenarios. The latter usually begin with the attacker having the advantage both of surprise and of unprotected targets. If the attacker knows the victim, the assault may turn into a fight. However, in cases of anonymous assault, the victim is more typically incapacitated, possibly killed with a weapon, and robbed. It is less likely in such situations for the attacker to go to the ground in a "fight" with the victim, since most attackers prefer to keep every advantage they can, including the advantage of staying upright while the victim is knocked down in order to facilitate a quick escape.

From the defender's point of view, any chance to quickly stun or incapacitate the attacker and then run away should be a higher priority than engaging the attacker in a ground fight. Going to ground is always a gamble. Namely, (1) that you are more skilled in groundfighting than your opponent, (2) that he is unarmed or will be unable to present any concealed weapon, (3) that other attackers will not present themselves, AND (4) that the fighting surface will be relatively safe to land on and will contain no impromptu environmental weapons that an attacker may use against you. Further, it is also a gamble that, if any of the above mentioned problems do arise, you will be able to extricate yourself and escape in time, unharmed. This last gamble may be the biggest of all.

The information thus far would seem to favor prioritizing simple but reliable and devastating strikes over ANY type of grappling, whether upright or on the ground. However, reality often dictates that, as the potential victim, you often don't get a choice of conditions in a real street attack. Therefore, having at least a reliable working knowledge of the basics of grappling and anti-grappling, both upright and on the ground, may be essential to your survival in a real street encounter. Even if ground grappling is not your forte, becoming familiar enough with it that you can escape from ground and get up to run away may mean the difference between life and death.

Personally, I believe Tony Blauer summed it up quite well in stating, "strike when you can, grapple when you have to".