Hero? Or...

[Sharky]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_1740000/1740253.stm

Opinions?

[Paul]

that's pretty tragic.

Car insurance is a great thing. I don't care if someone steals my car. They can have it.

[Bak Mei]

I was in a similiar situation when I was 18 or 19 -- with better results, they got away.

I ran into an old Army Navy store in down town Newark. As soon as I walked in realised the store changed and was selling higher end goods.

Walked out, headed up the block and saw a guy peering into my Jeep window. He wasn't pearing, but shimmeying that little triangle window open. I yelled out, and strated to jog toward him, he hopped in a car double parked and they took off. I had to buy a new triangle glass piece.

A couple days later a white boy like myself was killed in a car jacking, same place.

Better to let the car go and report it right away. Cops have radios, they'll get them if its reported quick. If not, that;'s what's insurance is for. I'll discuss MA here till the cows come home, but use it ONLY when having hads put on me. Otherwise, its not worth it -- anythig can happen.

[David Jamieson]

yes, it is a tragic story.

the guy should have just let it go, it is most unfortunate that he died when he didn't need to.

Is he a hero?

I wonder why, lately people who get killed by happenstance of circumstance are heros?

To me, a hero is someone who dies, saving the life of another, or who just saves the life or lives of others.

Since when is a victim a hero? I think this is a strange trend that is occuring in the media.

peace

[Johnny Hot Shot]

KL can't a hero just be someone that helps other people?

Must one die to be a hero?

[Shaolindynasty]

No he isn't a hero, hero's usually accomplish somthing, he is a victum. I wouldn't give my car to someone with a screwdriver, I would die first, I don't car about the car but it is the principle of the matter. I wouldn't ccare if it was a car or a candy bar.

[David Jamieson]

absolutely, I apologize for my lack of clarity.

A hero is anyone who takes a risk to help another living being. Of course death is not a necessary occurance.

One can be a hero by feeding a hungry person or making a donation to a charity.

I still think that the media is being a bit loose in the use of the word hero though and it is taking away from real heroes out there.

I think the Guy was a hero for taking care of a family with a couple of young kids, not because he chased a couple of thieves.

peace

[JWTAYLOR]

Here are the parts of the story that we need to take special attention to:

"I don't think he stopped to think who or how many he was going to meet."

And: "Mr Jackson... leaves two sons, Jake, seven and Tom, 15 months."


JWT

[Bak Mei]

Another media trend, and this won't be popular but I'm ona roll today, calling someone who is wiling to DIE! for their cause, let's say fly a plan einto abuilding, a coward.

I'm not down with what those guys did, but I don't think I'd fly or drive myself into anything to have stopped them either.

[Black Jack]

More than a victim, now a statistic.

Dying for a cause is one thing, ambushing and killing thousands apoun thousands of others who are unable to defend themselves is the sign of a coward.

If they had tried to storm a military base then maybe I would get the point but for some reason, and call me crazy here, I don't see how murdering all those people makes them brave or a hero.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

he was a fu cking idiot.

a brave idiot, but still another moron who didn't stop to think before leaving behind two children.

[Shaolindynasty]

He's the idiot? Why cause he didn't just lay down and let someone take from him? I would rather die myself then let people do what they want to me. I don't have kids but what kind of message would it send to them if their father was a coward who let people walk all over him? At least he sent them a good message before he died. What happened to honor? I don't know how you guys can consider yourselves martial artists if you wouldn't do whats in your power to stop yourself(or die trying) from being direspected like that. C'mon aren't you guys supposed to be f.ucking warriors?:mad:

[MonkeySlap Too]

Yeah, when I was single I loved tangling with punks for the shear joy of it.

But now I am not single, and my insurance is good. I have greater responsibility to my family than to a piece of property that can be replaced.

However, if my family was threatened, I'll open my can of 100% pasteurized USA Whoop Ass. I keep it on my desk just in case. :D

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i'm not really sure what i would do in that situation, i have never been in one remotely similar.

out of sheer indignation at being violated i would have probably ran after them as well

. .. and that makes all three of us fu cking idiots.

[MonkeySlap Too]

The chasing after part was really stupid...be happy they fled and go on with life...I feel for his children, because thier father didn't have the sense to think of them first.

[DelicateSound]

The guy died for no real reason, just cause some f*ckwit wanted his wife's car. It's a real shame.

He's no hero.
He was pretty brave to chase 'em off, stupid to carry on after them.

More heart than sense really. Shame for him and his family.

And ShaolinDynasty, I respect your belief. But I think you are stupid :p There is more to life than possesions.

If a guy held me at gunpoint, I'd give him my money if it allowed me to see my family again.

But if I was the guy in the news, I would have take a weapon with me. Running after 2 guys unprepared is idiocy.

[DelicateSound]

Should have grabbed a garden pitchfork and gone Medieval on their asses.

[Shaolindynasty]

Oh yeah, he ran after them. I probally would have just shouted obscene comments at them. If they would have continued to try to steal fom me, even while I was there, that is different to me. Then it's not about a replaceable peice of property, it's about respect and honor. If I had kids I wouldn't want them to think they had to live or die in a world where they had to let someone disrespect them like that just cause they may be in danger. I know I'd personally rather be dead right now than live, by being a victum with no control over what happens to me.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

yeah kids change things.

that doesnt mean you lay down and let people walk all over you, having a child has actually made me more assertive in all areas in my life. maybe it's all the screaming of the word NO . .. ..

but when you got the choice between letting some bullsh!t go with a grunt or dying out of honor you got to make the right decicion.

if it had been left up to the seven year old i gurantee things would have turned out differently and he would still have a daddy.

[DelicateSound]

Not just the kids. I think of my parents. No parent should ever see their kid die, no matter what his age.

SD - A victim? I don't think so! Insurance would claim me the cash back, and I'd have felt wiser for using my head not my hormones. You're only a victim if they beat you inside. No-one can ever beat me, especially not a couple of two-bit cowards and thieves.

[Bak Mei]

The real lesson here is learning how quickly a situation can turn lethal. Probbaly though, I'll catch this little punk; maybe two LITTLE punks. But all it takes is one little punk with a screwdriver and a hit in a bad spot and its over. Very unfortunate.

Same with the two retard hockey dads, one of which killed the other of body checking. The body can be a very fragile thing. Heals wells, buut once the lights are out, they are out.

Be careful, think things through.

[Shaolindynasty]

Never mind you missed the point it isn't about getting or losing the money or car. It's about..............maybe I'm to "street" for you guys. I like to live according to my terms and not the ones people try to impose on me. To me life is about more than just staying alive and having "things" This may sound messed up but life is also more to me than what my family would feel if I died. It's my opinon and you guys are welcome to yours, but personally I think it is weak and cowardly to let people victimize you like that. If you die fighting at least it's on your own terms

"There is a difference between bravery and courage"
"Courage means you have an understanding of the situation"
This is all I can leave you all with!

I had a similiar situation where my neighbors tried to burglarize me in broad daylight, not knowing I had the day off. As he crept through the window I had a 380 beretta pointed at his head. Knowing I had the situation under control, No one had to die, the cops came, they were arrested and I moved out.

Knowing the situation puts you in a much better place.

Shaolin36

[JWTAYLOR]

Shaolin Dynasty,

What you are telling me is that you would chase multiple assialants that are armed AFTER a PROPERTY CRIME YOU HAD ALREADY THWARTED without being armed yourself.

If that is so, it's not "too street", it's too stupid.

He won by getting them away. He turned a victory into defeat by getting himself killed.

JWT

[Black Jack]

Too Street????????

Don't you live in Wisconsin?:D

The only way you will get my cheese log is to pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

[Kristoffer]

i THINK i would have done the same as him. But just to die, dont make u no hero in my eyes. It is tragic however.

[Paul]

Too street? How many streets are there in Kankakee 3 or 4?

heh.

[joedoe]

Someone once said that the difference between a warrior and a fighter is that the warrior knows when to fight and when to run.

It is a tragedy that this guy died, but in my eyes it does not make him a hero. If he had died protecting someone's life then he would be a hero. Dying to protect possessions is stupidity.

[Chang Style Novice]

To my mind a hero is someone who helps others at their own expense. If you help someone, but without any loss to yourself you are a nice person but not a hero. There is a cost for heroism - sometimes a very great one, sometimes the cost is life.

Who did the man in the story help? In the end, no one. He gave his life for no reason at all.

How "street."

[Sharky]

Question is, why did he keep chasing them after he had " scared " them off?

Update: 3 new witnesses have steped forward with " evidence "

[scotty1]

Shaolin Dynasty, you're too street for me. In fact everytime I read one of your posts my Street Alarm goes off and I have to lie down for a minute. In fact, you're going to have to go on my ignore list.:D

But seriously man, do you really not value your own life that much?

[Fish of Fury]

"what kind of message would it send to them if their father was a coward who let people walk all over him? At least he sent them a good message before he died."

er, yeah...i'm sure the kids would really dig that.
"gee, it's a shame daddy died, but at least he looked like a real legend getting stabbed in the head all those times.I'm SO glad i'll have that to remember him by"

hero is probably not the appropriate term, but i wouldn't be knocking the guy too much either unless i was there and knew what was going on.

I guess the "take home message" is try to keep a level head.

SD
die for a candy bar?
well, whatever turns you on! (if that works for you...great. but seriously dude...a fu(kin candy bar!?)
"he died with a snickers in his hand"

i can almost hear Mel Gibson
"they may take our lives...but they'll never take OUR HERSHEYS!!!"
"every man dies, but not every man truly maintains full control of his M&M's under adverse conditions"

Oh, BTW speaking of "too street"
this guy walks into a bar with a segment of tarmac, and the barman says "what'll it be?"
guy replies "2 beers thanks...one for me and one for the road!"

[scotty1]

The police have recovered a vehicle and arrested a 20 year old man in connection.

I wish the police would let us practice our finishing combos on people like that.

[JWTAYLOR]

Fish, quit that.

JWT

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

lol .. .

that was funny **** fish and scott.

[Ryu]

Kung Lek,
I agree with your posts 100% about heroism. Good to see someone else who doesn't like how the media throws it around. :)

Ryu

[DelicateSound]

I kind of see your point SD. If anyone even TRIED to take my Oatcakes, it would be THROUGH me, not around me. :D

Every food lover'll be inventing their own food based corny film lines now.

I'm just waiting for Martial Joe to pop up with "Hasta La Pizza Baby" :)

[DelicateSound]

Man walks into a bar with an alligator under his arm, he says to the barman

"Barman, do you serve Afghans"

The barman says "of course, we don't mind"

The man says

"Fine, a beer for me... and 2 Afghans for the alligator"

:D So bad its good!

[tsunami surfer]

Seems to me his job was done when the 2 theives ran off. Still had his property and punks in flight. What was he going to do when he caught them? From what I ve been reading about the UK he would have been prosicuted for stopping them from committing a crime. Not trying to insult, that just seems tobe the way things are there.

[Sharky]

what? he'd get arrested for stopping them? no.

[DelicateSound]

If he had taken them down, they would have probably sued him, and he would have had to pay compensation. The f*cking British justice system is f*cked up Royally.

[rubthebuddha]

well, in the states, had he been able to catch and cause harm to any of them once he scared them off, HE'D be tried for assault. he stopped a crime in progress. by running after them, he put his own LEGAL safety in danger, and willingly introduced physical conflict into the mix. harm done to property, including theft, is not legal grounds to respond with harm to a person. if your life or health is not in danger, then anything you do to another person is unecessary to protect yourself and thus unjustifiable in court.

i'm not sure how the laws are back in gb, but here, had he lived, he'd get no sympathy from the court.

[DelicateSound]

A couple of years ago an elderly man's house was broken into. He wss a farmer, and when he heard noises he came downstairs with his shotgun. When a guy came at him with a knife, he fired and killed him [unsurprisingly].

He got 5 years. I know it was hardly "necessary force", but the guy was like 85, and some punk was trying to kill him.