View Full Version : Hakka Pak Mei: the legend continues

10-04-2000, 06:50 PM
Hey i guys, i started this thread cuz the other thread got way too long.


10-04-2000, 08:21 PM
Maybe I'll use this opportunity to ask my questions again.

What are the variations in "posture" between so-called "hakka" styles?

When did Bak Mei become Hakka and what became of the E'mei Taoist traditions?

Where do similar yet non Hakka arts like Fukien
White Crane, Bak Fu Pai and E'mei White Lotus fit in? If the source is hakka, why are these Ming based non hakka styles so similar?

10-04-2000, 08:29 PM
I have the same questions as fubokuen, but hold out no hope of them being addressed. Oh, that someone in the "Hakka" camp would prove me wrong...

BIU JI writes:
"I gave no disrespect to clc , only repeating what I also heard as a matter of course."

Hmm...I wonder what the definition of the word "gossip" is? It's real easy to gossip on public forums about those who have passed away, and then explain your actions by saying that you meant no disrespect, isn't it? Look, far be it from me to try and impose my mores on you, but I think that gossiping about those who have passed on a public forum is of the poorest taste. Fact or not. A piece of gossip and a fact are not mutually exclusive, got it? If this behavior of yours does not bother you, fine, but don't feign shock and surprise when others who adhere to a different ethic get offended. Let me add this though, you might want to keep this part of your personality under guard, if word of this gets out, you will probably not be named in too many wills.

but he wasn't done there...
"you 'pakmei' guys rarely mention anything about generating power or how anything works at all but just names of forms"

When did you ask a "pakmei" guy about generating power and not receive an answer? There are only a couple of people on this forum who practice CLC's art, that I know of, and I do not recall either of them ever shying away from a query having to do with their system. So, when did your question about power or how something works go unanswered?

and then this howler...
"so how can any serious student be convinced that you actually know what you are talking about."

OK, let me get this straight, you are not convinced that the CLC people know what they are talking about, but you are convinced that fierce tiger, who has mentioned nothing about his "real" Bak Mei, does? That's some scientific method you've got there BIU JI. When you were writing that, did you maintain a straight face? If so, how?

and then...
"Anybody can regergitate names and dates etc"

Um, no, BUI JI that's just the point. Apparently, fierce tiger and company cannot regurgitate names, dates, etc. See where you are wrong, here?

10-04-2000, 10:19 PM
Have you Pak mei guys seen this site?
have you heard this one?

10-05-2000, 12:12 AM
...answer a SINGLE question... or at least stop threatening to lay knowledge on the ignorant masses and say something...

Fubokuen- Since you are the Bak Fu Pai answer man I thought YOU could tell us where your arts fit in? Isn't the "E'mei White Lotus" Bak Fu Pai?

10-05-2000, 12:45 AM
fu bo kuen,
ive read this web site before, interesting..
hasnt lacy mentioned that doo wai trained with clc and that doo wai said he has the more forms and that his father new the complete system.
please clarify this, i know lacytalks to much but does doo wai know pak mei.

for the record.
now where does it talk about clc.... this is another one that doesnt.
wake up people, clc used the name pak mei to give a powerful name to his system, that he developed thats all. names like buddha, gwan guon,immortals goddess.etc

what name would you give your art if you made it up?
did pak mei and fung do duk come in contact with hakka and used there principles as a base to recreate there styles?


10-05-2000, 01:53 AM
The connection is Fukien Shil Lum. If Hakka people were there, it also explains Fukien White Crane. But wasn't Dragon originated there too? Then Bak Mei and Bak Fu developed on O'Mei Shan, etc. One could discourse all day and never mention the term "Hakka".

It somehow gives Lacy way too much attention to always ask his victims to make excuses for him. He is a parasite.

10-05-2000, 01:59 AM
For all you guys out there who paid for PAK MEI kung fu. How do you know you were taught the system that CLC was taught by the Kwong Wai monk.
How do you know your own SiFu was taught properly.

Because they paid for the lessons?

Wake up and smell the coffee.

10-05-2000, 02:58 AM
fubolin your full of grace,power and speed.(did you like that).your also full of wisdom.i would like very much clc and your si-fu get together to talk about bak-fu-pai.

10-05-2000, 03:53 AM
...and stop whispering trying to get people to listen.

Who's your shi fu? What? I can't hear you...WHAT?

stupid pr*ck...

Shaolin Master
10-05-2000, 04:04 AM
Who knows and who cares if the system is exactly like Kwong wai's monk as long as the principles of the system are there then it must have some credibility. Whether there are 2 forms or 50 forms are they performed with the right power generic to bai mei system. It is time people focused on the essence of a system. All systems were founded by someone having previous training ina something else then evolving through experience and development of other systems via combat friendship or sharing this is the true way of the martial world. All systems develop to improve if the original essence is evident (or else it is for self promotion and money making)and in fact who knows if the Bai mei system has developed to be better than it was when practised in the past by monk Kwong wai or Bai Mei himself !!

Shi Chan Long

10-05-2000, 04:50 AM
It is Su Fu,
You ignoramous. How is meltdawn?
Stick with her Moq you might learn something!!!
Why do you bother posting to this thread when you
haven't anything to do with Pak Mei.

Can't start your own topic, or is it that your Lung Ying is Cr*p?

10-05-2000, 06:37 AM
Who's an ignoramus?(n. not adj.)
Who does Lung Ying?
Who thinks you are Bak Mei?

10-07-2000, 02:20 AM
moq stop crying,go and borrow some nail varnish off meltdawn,for your fancy dragon claws.it may help your banter skills get a bit better,you "petty thread,lowest of the low"little baby dragon.

10-07-2000, 03:19 AM
i've read your post,and i agree, i think everybody should read this post.
tell me,are you religious in any way?

10-07-2000, 03:55 AM
This is gonna be like this people!!!
"lets dig up Bruce Lee cuz I wanna see how realy tuf he is!"
"Hooooo he is like 100 years old? man I gonna beat his Kung fu @$$"
and now with CLC
"his pak mei is "KA""
"he make it up"

Come on people he's death for 40 years!
Are you going to phone his sons and tell him your pak mei is "KA"???
becuz your daddy use opium?
or you are scare to tell him because of his hetsafui connections??
Hell my klan did some serious things!
worste then that the CLC klan!

10-07-2000, 07:02 AM
i wont even go there!!!
im done with this thread.

10-07-2000, 11:59 AM
i agree with f.t
i initially got on the thread cause someone else had heard the same history as i had. now it's just everyone having digs at each other.
everyone talks about respect for CMA, but they keep badgering each other.
get on with the real point at hand.
our opinions were put forward so others would know.
those who want to see if these are correct can try to find out from other sifu, those that don't, keep training if you enjoy it.

this is my last post on this topic.
bye for now.

10-07-2000, 04:49 PM
Sorry , did I offend thee? Was not my intention but obviously it touched a raw nerve there . Don't lose too much sleep over it now hey! Just testing the water.

10-08-2000, 01:38 AM
moq- when did you get your cut and tuck!!
you act like a blouse... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Shaolin Master
10-08-2000, 04:20 AM
Ch'an Buddhist

10-08-2000, 04:44 AM
You idiots ride on idiot assumption built on idiot assumption. If any of the collective YOU had anything to say you would've said it.

If anyone were to do a search of any or all of your posts they would find absolutlely NO INFORMATION WHATSOEVER!

ShaolinMaster- Of course you are a Ch'an Buddhist, but you are not Chinese are you?

Shaolin Master
10-08-2000, 05:03 AM
Leu Ng Jai wa da mat gai ah ? Leu xiang wa si mat gai nung ah ?

Kei sat nei yat ding ng chi dou ngo hai ping go ah ?

Wo hui gau su ni hen duo de shi, bu guo ni yi ding bu yau ting !

Is necessario conocer el principio y el fin del mundo para que la vida se ve en claridad !

Yes MoQ you are so wise :
Do you speak Hokkienese, Teo Chew, Cantonese, Mandarin, Spanish, English, Italian, Portugese....Now you tell me what am I ?

Why do you hinder everything rather than seek progress, always wisecrack remarks you should be ashamed. Sometimes you say meaningful things but half the time you are suffering in bitterness be polite it is best for all of us.

The taller the bamboo grows the lower it bows !

Shi Chan Long

10-08-2000, 06:11 PM
You a BS Artist. You are not a Buddhist. You are another arrogant a$$ that after 20 posts has everyone in the background community irritated and/or pi$ off with the 100% cr*p you spew which IS ALL ABOUT HOW FULL YOU ARE.

You are a rich debutant that went to a rich school and now you think you can dress in robes spout BS and everyone is going to follow.

I ask a simple question and get a load of BS...how odd, yet not uncharacteristic.

10-09-2000, 06:42 AM
moq- you cant keep you mouth shut,your dribbling
s**t as usual.
you have no respect for anyone, your sifu must be blind stupid to take you as a student. like teacher like student..hahahahaha
your a d**Khead, gay and no-one loves you poor little poof..

ah thankyou very much (elvis) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

10-09-2000, 07:09 AM
You come on quacking like ducks and defying anyone to stop you from telling things the way you see them.

THEN when someone else does the same thing(without any boasting I might add- I have never made any personal claims, just say what I want), you start spinning like tops, screaming that you've been offended! HAHAHA

Now that I've got you spinnin' I'll leave you alone...I just wanted to see it! HAHAHA

'later... /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

10-09-2000, 10:11 AM
right back at ya baby!
i dont get offended, but you call people disrespectful when they talk there mind. you come on and say what you say, no-one cares but your rude and your still a poofter...hahahaha

peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

10-09-2000, 02:27 PM
Mo Q would you like to dicuss kung fu or not . I'd like to discuss the similarities between pakmei and YKM forms, eg SUB CHI, SECH CHI KUEN, LY JI Bo . I've learnt another version of Sech Chi Kuen from a Pakmei teacher and find there are differences. These are core forms of Pakmei and also foundation forms for YKM.Along with forms Kau Bo Tuy, Ying Jow Lin Q(similar to Dragon Mo Q, no not you Mo Queer).
Anybody heard of these YKM forms or seen them? Good to hear some useful feed back.c

10-09-2000, 06:43 PM
I am wondering WHY this subject heading? This is very odd since I think there was a thread about your teacher being listed on Jim Lacy's site as his Australia Representative and I recognize Ying Jow Lin Kiu and Lung Ying Mo Kiu as Bak Fu Pai forms. I am wondering what is going on in Australia?

10-09-2000, 06:57 PM
Can anyone tell me is there a pole form from the Kwong Wai monk?
If there isn't where did CLC get his pole form from?

10-10-2000, 02:26 AM
hello again Fubo -
My Sifu purchased a couple of videos from Lacy years ago out of curiosity. Lacy took the liberty of adding my Sifu to his site to make his network look larger - you know his tricks, i don't need to convince you of his dishonesty.

My Sifu certainly does not teach Lacy material, if he even has the videos anymore... he just wanted to see what this guy was about - now he knows!

Sifu also bought a White Tiger video from Joel Rizzo to see what it was like, he is always trying to increase his knowledge of other styles & kf in general. He respects BFP, but does not teach it, only YKM - he has not added to our system, he teaches what was passed down to him from our Sigung.

I am only a beginner to YKM (& kung fu), i don't know too much about certain forms (i have to learn them first!) and their relationship to other stlyes. I do know that in general YKM has a very close connection to Bak Mei - our late Grandmaster blended the original internal YKM with the external Bak Mei to create the internal & external YKM you see today. Our external is not EXACTLY the same as Bak Mei - but we have never denied our BM roots.

I really dont like seeing my Sifu in the same sentence as that snake Lacy. I hope this puts to rest any fears that you may have about Aust YKM.

hiya Lin Q -
Yeah, why the Lacy heading? Are you trying to get me worked up or something? I'll have to take it out on you at training tonight! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yup, ive heard of the forms - ive even seen them once or twice.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif sorry, cant comment on the similarities (see above).

anyway, back to work,
blessed be,

ps. why won't my instant smilies work - it just says "undefined"

[This message was edited by Bastet on 10-10-00 at 07:34 PM.]

10-10-2000, 04:37 PM
Just out of curiosity, what was on the BFP tape your Sifu purchased? What was the material presented? Thanks.

10-11-2000, 12:47 PM
Hello billy_pilgrim -
My Sifu bought one tape from Joel Rizzo. It had one basic form and some sitting meditations. My Sifu would not tell me the details, he said that was between Joel Rizzo & himself. Since it is not YKM it doesnt concern me - fair enough.

Just out of interest, he also bought a BMP tape (from ESPY TV or something like that) of Man Kwong Fong doing Sup Jee Kuen, to compare with our system & to see how they do their forms. It is no big deal that he got these videos - he just likes to be informed about kung fu in general. YKM Sup Jee is completely different from BMP in case your interested. Their Sup Jee is very similar to sech zee kuen.

Cloud 1 -
As far as I know, CLCs pole forms may have come from Lee Gar & Lou Man Pai.

blessed be,

10-11-2000, 12:58 PM
Yeh , understand the confusion. I first started on one track, became distracted and then continued on a totally diferent one, sorry about that . Consitency is not my best suit.
Anyway what I wanted to say was that some months ago when the topic of Sifu's connection with Jim Lacy came up is that I heard from Sifu his receiving these tapes but never has he claimed to be a representative of Lacy or anyone other than YKM.Anything on those tapes has remaimed on those tapes far as I know. I've seen the sight on which Lacy has placed Sifu's picture so I can understand the interest but I can assure you there is no Lacy
pakmei being taught at our school. There is nothing wrong with seeing what other systems are out there. Anyway I hope that clears things up abit, if any questions don't hesitate to ask(I know you won't) .

10-11-2000, 01:25 PM
Yeh sorry about that , started on one topic but then got totally distracted and continued with something completed different one . Anyway the topic was in regards to Sifu being associated with Lacy. Sifu has never claimed to represent anyone but YKM and I can assure you that no Lacy's pakmei is being taught at YKM. I can understand from Lacy's sight people thinking so but it's only conjecture. I only wanted to reafirm what Baste originally posted on the matter .

10-11-2000, 07:31 PM
LIN Q- Jim Lacy is trying to build a general documentation of himself in his fantasy persona. If your teacher does not make a stand against Lacy using him, he will go down in history documented as Jim Lacy's ally and close friend. Make sure that your teacher knows this.

Do you think any of the other names on Lacy's site are REAL associates? Are his claims true or merely unrefuted? And of course I mean refuted in a court of law. We are all Jims pawns as far as he sees us. He prays to a magic stone and receives gung fu training psychicly directly from his "5 Elders", telling him that he is a reincarnation of ALL of them, no less and he is going to be the most famous MA in history. I doubt if your teacher wants to fit into these plans.