Higher levels of Choy Lee Fut

[kei lun]

Does CLF look different in the higher levels? I heard that the highest forms, above the bakwa forms, are the combined animal forms like Lung Foo Keun, and Seh Hok Keun. Are these the highest hand forms (other than the internal ones)? Is there 1 form that is concidered the highest?

[extrajoseph]

Kei-Lun,

Generally speaking the higher level forms looked "softer" and more "internal". According to my Sisuk Li Yiu-Ling, who is probably the oldest surviving desciple of Chan Yiu-Chi, the most advanced animal form is the Sup Ying Kuen (The Ten Animals Form), the most advanced internal set is the Mo Gik Kuen (The Without Ultimate Fists) and the most advanced weapon is the Gwao Loong Char (The Nine Dragons Trident). That is his opinion, other teachers I know don't give an opinion at all. It is probably because it is hard to define what is considered the highest.

JosephX

[bean curd]

yes joseph it is i beancurd, i read your previous post on our little exchange and if you are sincere we fight like family but get over it, then i am also of the same believe.

now that being said, i have read your post with great interest, and of one in particular " gwa lung char ". ( gau lung pa ? )

i remember years ago, around 1972 if not just after, there was a chinese mag. that had chen yau yuen ( ?) showing this exsquisite weapon. i am sure it also said he made a copy of it, as the original is still in chen village.

i can honestly say i found it amazing that someone could play one, i find it hard using a kwan dao hahaha. the reason i remember the article is that the weapon was something one would never forget.

have you played the gwa lung char ??, may i ask how you approach it from a mind set, due to the fact from sight it appears to be a rather demanding and overpowering one at that.

[extrajoseph]

bean curd,

Let us forgive and forget. It is good to talk about something less contraversial for a change.

Yes, I remembered the article you talked about. Gee, that shows you have been around the trap as long as I have.

I was in King Mui Village a few years ago and they have a copy made there in the Ancestral School. I remembered it was a heavy weapon and difficult to handle because apart from the weight, the fork parts at the tip of the trident would move as you turn the handle and it takes good strength to grab and turn as you charge into your opponent or to use the turning to trap his weapon.

I have never learned the Nine Dragon Trident and only handled it once. From my limited experience with this weapon, I think one has to be very fit and strong physically and mentally to use it. My teachers all talked about it being the ultimate weapon used by Chan Heung, but they have never learned it like me, so I cannot tell you much about it.

JosephX

[bean curd]

joseph,

thanks for the response, totally agree with you.

just one more question if you don't mind. the mere fact you have played the weapon is interesting enough, and from my experiance, a rare thing at that, so any insight i will find educational.

i can understand what you mean by weight, apart from the " head " and if i remember right it was also called " nine branches with twelve stars or points " it did appears top heavy.

so working on this and the fact that most weapons within a gar relaite to thegar's intrinsic qualities, is the play of this weapon still possable from a pure CLF point of view.

the apperance i could feel from the photo's which there where some with the article is that it played very much like a " dia pa ", but the wrists, waist and ma would have to be strong, if so, and i am not off the track, was there a variance to the play of the weapon.

i understand that in your lineage it is a senior form, so if you don't wish to elaborate, i totally understand.

:D

[extrajoseph]

bean curd,

I wrote you a reply and have it posted but when I tried to edit it later on it disappeared off the board. I just find out there is a shot of the Gwau Loong Cha in the Sydney Hung Sing Gwoon photo galleries for the China trip. You could take a look:

http://clfma.com/mig.php?currDir=./China_Tour_Gallery_1&pageType=image&image=9dragon.jpg

I will go on holiday for a while, so talk to you later.

JosephX

[kei lun]

Well, wether its the Sup Ying Keun or the Gaau Lung Pa what makes these considered high level forms? Are there things here that are not found in the lower levels?

[once ronin]

no one here talks much about it but isnt choy li fut's higher level forms about power? to use the gau lung pa takes power. to hurl a 60 pound rock with your foot takes power.

[bean curd]

once ronin,

no choi li fut higher forms has minimal to do with power, and to that point it depends on what power you are talking about.

the description of power you use to describe the later forms is incorrect.

there are three levels of power as there are three levels of intention, the higher forms bring you through these three levels.

i have not played gua lung pa as it is a pure chen lineage weapon, that being said if it follows the principle of senior form intention, then you will be lost if you use it in the early stages of the descriptions you have suggested in your post.

[JAZA]

You can see Sifu Raul wiht the 9 dragon http://www.choyleefutchile.cl/tn_raul_arma_chan_heung.jpg