Chi and sex: Conflicting opinions

[IronFist]

Hey guys,

I just thought of this. Traditional internal arts speak of "conserving the jing" (I think it's jing) by not ejaculating. But, modern (western) medical research says that men who ejaculate twice a week are healthier and have stronger immune systems than those who ejaculate more or less.

That's kind of strange. Or maybe I'm wrong, I dunno. I just thought I'd throw it out there.

Iron

[Chris McKinley]

By traditional internal arts, I'm assuming that you are referring to the Chinese Taoist internal arts such as Taijiquan, Baguazhang, Xing Yi Quan, etc. When Taoist methods speak of conserving the jing by not ejaculating too frequently, they aren't going to the other extreme of no ejaculations either. Extremism runs rather contrary to Taoist ideology. Instead, they would preach a bit of moderation. In Traditional Chinese Medical theory, too many ejaculations lead to depletion of kidney jing and qi, but too much restraint can cause imbalances also.

There is far more to be said and said better by those that have written on Taoist sexual practices. You may wish to find more information there. Also, you might try looking into Tantra. Though it is of a more Ayurvedic Buddhist origin, it too has plenty to say about conservation and expression of energy as related to sex practices. Best of luck.

[prana]

As opposed to simply not ejaculating, I think it is more, directing the energy winds into your central psychic nerve instead of allowing to be excreted, this transforms "kundalini" (jing???) into "transcendental wisdom" and the different signs of dying.

Not contradicting at all :p

[IronFist]

Oops, thanks for the clarification.

:D

Iron

[fa_jing]

Go without ejaculating for 2 weeks. You'll feel the chi. I'm not kidding.
Mohammed Ali used to abstain for up to 6 weeks before a fight. Said something along the lines of, abstinance makes a great fighter.
Of course, a relationship can be a wonderful thing, probably contributes more to your overall mental, physical and spritual health than say, being frustrated. But if your up on that mountain meditating anyway, it's a good idea to show restraint. Work with it, learn the benefits.

-FJ

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

For what it is worth, a Qigong Master told me a while back about a Daoist's (Taoist's) formula concerning this subject. The bottom line is not to ejaculate for 100 hundred days. During these 100 days you drink a Tang (tea). After the 100 days, you follow a math formula.

An example of the formula is: 54 (my age) x .2 (variable Daoists came up with) = 10.8 . Which means that I should ejaculate every 11 days for my age. I experienced what I mentioned above and it works. After ejaculation I am not tired and don't want to sleep.

xiaotiema

[IronFist]

Better hope you don't have any dreams about sex :D

Iron

[Nexus]

dfe****o - That is an interesting formula, but seems restricting in from a taoist point of view in the sense that you are planning your ejaculation. That is of course unless you are keeping that to a general sense. Excellent post none the less!

- Nexus

[Leonidas]

This i s part of an interview with Mr. Ma Chuanxa, Master of Liang style Baguazhang, President of Beijing Baguazhang Research Society Association. The rest is on Jareks CMA page. Good read

JS: As far as I know Taoists suggest that one should also stop having sex, otherwise the Small and Large Heavenly Circles will never open. Is that true for Bagua Neigong practice as well?

MR.MA: Yes, this is very important condition. My teacher told me that at the very beginning - if you want to develop true skill, you must be like a monk, living in celibacy. There is a story about "Coal" Ma, who was selling coal in Beijing's Caishikou. When he started to study Baguazhang from Dong Haichuan, he took his quilt and moved out to live in the shop. He lived there for three years and did not return home even once during that time.

Your body requires one week to recover after one sexual intercourse. i.e. come back to the condition before the intercourse. One hundred days is required to recover Original Qi (Yuan Qi) completely (i.e. recover to the condition before one had any sex). About three years is required to open Small Heavenly Circle.

JS: What about married people? I'm afraid people who have families will have difficulty with developing any Internal Skill then...

MR.MA: There is not a big problem with practice in Middle Basin (Zhong Pan), you can still get Internal Skill. However once you decide to practice Lower Basin you have to stop any sexual activity.

JS: What if one decides to practice in Lower Basin without fulfilling that requirement?

MR.MA: You will only hurt yourself. Lower Basin is a very demanding practice for the body and it will not be able to endure it. During Lower Basin practice you have to eat well and have good rest. It is like having a bank account. If you draw 1 million dollars from it and then transfer 1 million back it is OK. If you transfer 1 million and one dollar, you will have little saving - surplus energy. However if you transfer only 990 thousand, you will be in dept - your body will not be able to recover from the effort. In this way although your muscles may get stronger, your internal strength, internal potential, will decrease. This phenomena can be easily recognized by hearing one's voice - weak voice, neither loud nor clear, sometimes accompanied by coughing is the symptom of low energy level. Lower Basin method is most suitable for young, unmarried people. Otherwise you have to make the decision to become like a monk for three years...

JS: We were talking about Small Heavenly Circle. What about the Large Heavenly Circle (Da Zhou Tian)?

MR.MA: Once the Small Circle is opened, the Large will open naturally. There is a saying "Small Achievement comes in three years, Big Achievement - in ten years" (Xiaocheng San Nian Dacheng Shi Nian). One has to live in celibacy for at least six years to achieve true skill. Once the skill comes out, you still have to limit the number of sexual intercourses. Two, three times a week will ruin your skill completely. Once every two, three months is not a big problem.

[Leonidas]

The things you do for Martial Arts.................I dont think many people are willing to do that no matter how devoted they are. You can please your lady if you know what i mean :D but your sh*t outta luck if you wanna be really skilled in IMA. IMA is useless without chi and you can't build strong chi without sacrificing your sex life if its that important to you. You dont have to worry about having sex to stay healthy if your doing chigong but some people get stressed without it. It's just a state of mind really

[PhoenixPangaryk]

Well, here is another school of thought. Sex can be a very powerful energy building excercise. Sex magic is very real and it has its place. You may want to further your research into it from other perspectives. I respect the interview posted above, but I have worked with sex as a form of energy raising and it can be extremely powerful.

Regards

[redfist]

haveing sex and raising energy are contradictory terms as far as this type of training goes,it`s either or,if your married thats to bad,you can only progress so far.
unless your women walks the same path you do.
thats not usually the case.

[PhoenixPangaryk]

My 'women' walks the same path. :D

There are also ways to still experience sex, experience orgasm without the loss of sperm. ;)

Enough said. Happy 'monk'-ing around! :p

[redfist]

read the interview posted by leonidas,it`s on the money,
i`m talking about real training,
there is a lot of youngsters on this forum,you can tell by the questions,listen carefully,
if you really, i mean take the time and the money to find a real teacher you may find that tantra has to do with an inner relationship and not with sex with a partner.
tantra is a high level practice,it`s not the place to start,

a lot of what you see is tantra as practiced in the west,
a big difference then what is practiced in the east.

you are amusing,
you study a few years then you make up your own system,
wiccan kung fu?never heard of it.why?there is no such thing,except in your own mind.
since this is a new system,made up by you,over the next 20 years
you can keep us all posted on your progress through informative articles and insights,

that is untill you are swept up in some other fad.

[Stacey]

how about women? I havent ever ejaculated. Does this make me superpowerfull? Are my circles open?

I kind of doubt that a man would give up sex for esoteric chi practice.

[maoshan]

Leonidas,dfe****o@mindspring.com
Excellent, Just excellent

This is higher level training.

As far as the hundred days are concerned, It took me 5yrs to do it
Taoist sexual practices are truly tuff. In particular if your already having sex. It would be far easier for a vergin to do it. The pressure is incredable. I practice the dual method and what has been referred to as the vampire method.
and I found that you don't have to wait 2 weeks to feel it.
Get into an intense session with your partner and stop. If you can get past the fact that you didn't ejaculate and just feel your self. you will feel the flow of energy inside you.
The problem is we have been instilled with a wrong concept.
We think the perpose of sex is to ejaculate so we approuch sex with this mind set. When we are interupted we get angry because we didn't get it. But if you pay attention to yourself you'll see that you feel quit strong. It happened to me in my younger days and one time i remember runing into something that at any other time would put me on my knees in pain but instead I was just aware that i hit something. and on the other side of that,
just after ejaculation i've bumped into things that at any other time would never had bothered me, instead I felt like I'd been shot.
What ever method chosen, you must be diligent. For those in the west I sudjest the dual method. Sex has alot of empact on our society. most couldn't handle abstainance.

This is a deep subject. from my experiance I could Tell yall some stories. But it's not for kungfuonline it would be quit cencered.
I've made mistakes and i learned the hard way, but ultimatly It's help me progress tremendously.

Just be careful

Maoshan

[brucelee2]

I spoke with my bagua sifu today about the formula mentioned above for determining ejaculation frequency. He said it was okay but not great because every person is different- for example, one thirty year old may be in excellent health, another may be sickly or have kidney troubles, therefore their optimal ejaculation frequencies would differ despite their being the same age. Also, I'm not sure this formula applies to internal martial artists- because of their reliance on jing/chi, the formula may suggest an ejaculatory frequency that is too often/much. Something to think about.

[red_fists]

Hi.

From what I heard and read it takes 4 Days for the Body to recover the lost Chi.

Which also seems to correspond with the secual practices taught and recommended worldwide by multiple Cultures.

Said that any excess buildup will unbalance your Body.

Formulas I don't think that there are reliable formulas to calculate the stuff, but you should rather rely on what your Body tells you.

Yes, there are great chemical changes happening in your Body during Sex, and it is those that affect your Chi Level.

The Kama Sutra also talks about stealing somebodies energy during Sex, as do other Asian Pillow Books.

Personally I think that the time of abstinence was recommendet as a cleansing/purification method similar to prolonged "fasting periods" rather than a way to increase the Chi.

From what I learned you cannot increase on the 3 basic Chi's, but you can learn to use them more effective.
Said that I found that many great MA Masters all fathered quiet a few Kids.

Hmmmm.

[Kristoffer]

I think that sex GIVES u energy, not the other way around. sorry

[Nexus]

Kristoffer, you are correct, but the concern here is on ejaculation and not on the sex itself. Sex in and of itself is fine, and women build up jing by having orgasms. But men lose energy by ejaculation, but you can have as much sex as you'd like.

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

I noticed that no one touched your question. Understand that we are just dicussing and no one really has the correct answer. We, I believe, concerning this subject, are talking warrior mode. I remember my Tae Kwon Do Master telling us that if we do the "deed" to perform it at night because if we would do it during the day we would be weak and if we had a confrontation we would lose. Truthfully, that statement has stuck with me for 20 + years. I believe today.

As for the formula I mentioned earlier, you can play around all the time just don't ejaculate. Very easy to say but hard to do. I can honestly say I completed the training concerning the formula. My mind was playing games with me the entire time but I managed to overcome the games. I am 55 at this writing and I do the "deed" every 11 days. The difference is that I don't feel any different then when I began to do the "deed". I am not tired, don't want to sleep etc.

But I am not a woman so I really can't answer you but, at least, you know more about how men act.

xiaotiema

[CD Lee]

Out of my area of expertise here, but has there not been modern scientific studies on atheletes and sexual activity recently? When I was into running and racing, these Olympic type people were fanatical about everything, including sitting in one position too long or taking showers and such. (Marty Liquori)

Could the power of the mind cause actual manifestations in us? If I belived for instance that ejaculation built power internally, and made sure I did it three times a day, would I be more healthy believing that, versus a sickly guy who gets it once every two months? Just throwing out some ideas.

Also, nobody really adressed the question from the nice lady. What about a woman? Women train, and some are very strong and powerful without big muscles. I practiced with a lady in class that was 135 lbs, and she was like a friggin piece of steel. I swear, she was honest to God, harder to move than 220+ men in the same class.

Could I kick any pornstars @ss just because I have more chi? I am skeptical to a point.

[TaiChiBob]

The Taoist teacher i have studied with counseled that we should take our cues from nature.. during periods of abstinence watch for that "expressive dream", that is the body telling you that the vessel is full.. nature insisting that too much must be "too much"..
to supress such a basic natural function as to cause nature to take over while sleeping is a strong indication that there are extremes beyond which no benefit is derived.. of course, there is the wisdom of timing, the sensing of our own personal cycles and the knowledge born of experience.. i don't believe there is some specific formula that works for everyone, but i know from experience what excess is to me, i feel my optimum levels of energy and i try to use sound Tantric practices to maximize my whole experience..
During Iron Palm initial training (4 months) the restriction imposed on sexual activity has its obvious merits, the transformation of tissue, the itchy impatience to burn off that unfulfilled desire and the resulting adherence to training schedules.. but, there was the light at the end of the tunnel.. so, i suppose that there are benefits for short periods of abstinence, but as has been stated previously "balance" is what we are striving for.. wherever there is a benefit gained by extremes nature extracts a price in the opposite direction.. "balance"..

[prana]

Stacey,


how about women? I havent ever ejaculated. Does this make me superpowerfull? Are my circles open?

You bleed every month, and possibly feeling weak ? Women lose red energy, men lose white.