San Shou fight videos

[Xebsball]

I found some videos on this page:
http://members.tripod.com/shaolinwushu/movies.htm

Nothing amaizing or special about it, just thought its cool to check out if you guys want.

[Ralek]

you don't need videos when you've lived it like me.

[DelicateSound]

We're not talking about gay porn movies though.

[Xebsball]

Delicate is correct.

I made a mistake on my previous statement, most videos there are not impressive but Marvin Perry's videos are great, hes got awesome skill.

I suggest you check out Marvin's stuff and to think that Ralek wanted to fight him, LOL.

[SanShou Guru]

I'm Glad you liked Marvin's clip. It too me a while to put them together. You should also Check out Albert Pope's and Tara MacDonalds Clips as well.

[Cipher]

I could only watch the first one of the Chinese tourney and marvin perry videos. The other won't come up is there a problem with the links? It may be that I am at wotk and behind a fire wall though.

[cagey_vet]

not saying i can take any of those guys but... that shouldnt matter.
i still have an opinion.
thats just glorified kickboxing.
fun to watch, but still short of the ability of putting your style
out there and using it to fight. its just a tad better than PKA
style.
is there any fighter in the scene who truly represents his/her style?

[lkfmdc]

Ah yes, it isn't real kung fu, where is the secret and deadly flying weasal claw technique or the Chi blast that can kill a chicken at 30 yards

[Iron Arahat]

San Shou since it requires that the fighter wears gloves, limits some of the techniques that may be otherwise available.

This is especially true when it comes to the throws.

San Shou was better when it included knees and and elbows...

Just my humble opinon...

[Cipher]

Fighting is fighting and so far San Shou has been able to put the most realistic method in the ring as a sport giving more people a chance to participate and fight. I think the main difference is the training methods. It is easy to sit back and say they all look the same but you have to be able to pick out the skill and be able to recognize it. The dodges, parries and conter attacks ect.ect.

[Iron Arahat]

Just a comment on the videos, the majority of the fights are from the European Championships two years ago. They are a good tool for someomeone to see what to expect if they have never fought in a San Shou match.

I actually have the footage of all the medal matches from the 2001 Canadian Team Selections, but don't have the space to put it on the web yet...

[Cipher]

For some reason I can't access the videos. Does anyone have any other links that have video downloads? I have seen the Marvin Perry ones and they are great, but I would like to see as many as I can.

Anyone know were to buy some San Shou videos? I saw the tape on www.sanshou.com but I don't know of any other places.

[Sharky]

lol at marvin perry schooling that bag.
lol at marvin perry schooling that fighter.
lol at the marvin perry schooling everybody in the highlight clips.

marvin perry is funny.

[SanShou Guru]

Marvin is Funny.

We were laughing last night after he landed a Jump Spinning Sidekick to my eye. Scared the hell out of both of us but no real damage just a black eye today, glad he pulled it. I guess he was mad that I finally managed to take him down last night for the first time in a very long time.

We were also laughing when he landed his "Over" kick on another of his teammates (think of a round kick that lands like and axe kick). The kid is 6' tall and the downward sweep of Marvin's kick started about 1' over the kids head. Glad he pulled that one also.

Fighting Marvin is funny for everyone not fighting him at the time. Believe it or not but he is about the nicest guy you will ever meet, right ikfdmc? If he wasn’t we would not be able to train him.

[Ralek]

That sounds like TKD to me. Jumping spining backkicks. Vertical roundhouses. I think TKD rules the san shou arena. For example Kung Le a TKD black belt destroyed everyone in san shou.

Who would have thought that TKD would destroy kung fu!!!!

[SanShou Guru]

ralek,

I don't normally respond to trolls of your level but what the heck.

saying that ONLY TKD does spinning techniques is as stupid a statement as saying that if you leg kick you must be Tai. If you asked Cung (not Kung) Le what style he trains and uses, he would say San Shou, not modified TKD, Tai, Wrestling, Kickboxing, just San Shou which is all these things and more.

But then you can say what you want since everybody knows that you don't really know sheite about fighting.

buh bye.

Oh and keep talking smack about Marvin he reads this page now and he thinks you are really funny.

[Sharky]

you train with him? impressive man

[Cipher]

It would be funny if ralek challenged Marvin Perry. I would love to see a tape of that. It should be small enought to put it on the internet, only a 1/2 sec fight should be well under a meg.

ralek,
What about Marvin Perry, he trained in Kung Fu and he has done very well in the fight light.

[Shaolindynasty]

LOL If Ralek fought Perry it would be over so fast you wouldn't even be able to have a video, the entire fight would just be a picture:D

[SanShou Guru]

A blurry picture unless you use one of those Super High Speed camera's they use to take pictures of the first nanoseconds of and explosion.:D

[rogue]

D@nm, Those vids of Perry have got me working my lead leg side kick harder.

A question about San Shou fighters, they're punching seems neglected. I noticed that they go for the throw instead of a cross. Is punching the least important part of their training?

[SanShou Guru]

Punching is not neglected but without a real clench likely most fighters will shoot and throw so they stay at a longer range many times. Marvin is a very good boxer but he does not need to use his hands as much with kick like that. I can usually get him a few times when we spar hands only.

[Xebsball]

Marvin vs Ralek, a 60Kb mpeg video, LOL

[King Of Sanda]

Ralek, Ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa I am a close friend of Marvin Perry and we work out together.

Now, I don't know a lot about you, but based on every thing you've said in this chat room.

I know for a fact that you don't know anything about fighting. You've been talking a lot of trash about Marvin Perry.

I suggest you stop doing that because, he recently started started reading these pages. And he laughs at you, but if you keep it up he might get mad.

That's something you don't want to do.

[cagey_vet]

where did your "blasting chickens with chi" come from?
is that your perception of kung fu? or traditional
chinese martial arts overall?
serious question, although from what i read in your past
posts, i think i am gambling on getting a serious answer ;)

*shrug*

[lkfmdc]

I have spent the majority of my life in Chinese martial arts, only to watch it continually detreriorate until it has become quite a joke. A once great fighting tradition now produces "forms collectors" and there is a great dillusion over most of the students. The Chi blast reference comes from a famous book on kung fu training, famous at least in my time, maybe you never saw it?

I continually hear and see people criticize San Shou who could frankly not punch their way out of a wet paper bag. People who think "kung fu" is a drive in movie or the matrix, as if striking, kicking and throwing is not Chinese martial art

I see no point in arguing with people who think that "kung fu fighting" is some esoteric and fancy mystical technique, they will believe what they want to believe. But I will continue to chuckle when they criticize San Shou

[lkfmdc]

Oh, yeah, I would definitely say that marvin Perry is one of the nicest people you will ever meet.. a real champion and good for San Shou

[Iron Arahat]

Cipher I have copies of the 2001 San Shou Team Canada Selections for sale...medal matches only...

It would be good to see a great deal more San Shou tournaments, bouts promoted.

My beef is it's hard to get fights unless you fork out lots of bucks for travel...

[Cipher]

Originally posted by Iron Arahat
Cipher I have copies of the 2001 San Shou Team Canada Selections for sale...medal matches only...

It would be good to see a great deal more San Shou tournaments, bouts promoted.

My beef is it's hard to get fights unless you fork out lots of bucks for travel...

I don't know, I have been looking around for close tourneys in my area and I found one in Columbus Ohio, it is the Battle of Columbus or something. It is only a 4 hour drive from me. I want to fight in it but I think I will wait untill I can prepare a little better becuase it is next month, kind of spur of the moment.

To everyone,

One question about this. I emailed the people there and they said that there would be San Shou matches held at the tourney, how do you know if it is official so it will count torwards you amature stats? I'm sure it has to be sanctioned by some group right? If it is not an officialy ran match then is there any ill efect of fighting in it other than not getting credit for the win/loss? Thanks.

[Iron Arahat]

Just video tape the match, as long as is it is 3 rounds (whether it lasts that long or not). Even if it is not held or sponsored or endorsed by your sanctioning body (or a well reputated one), other bodies will tend to accept it on your record with video evidence. This gives the sanctioning bodies a good idea of standards etc...

We thought about sending a group to the Columbous Tourney, but it is just too much to pay for travel expences for something like that, but we would drive 4 hours if it was that close.

Good luck in you fight man...

[Brad]

One question about this. I emailed the people there and they said that there would be San Shou matches held at the tourney, how do you know if it is official so it will count torwards you amature stats? I'm sure it has to be sanctioned by some group right? If it is not an officialy ran match then is there any ill efect of fighting in it other than not getting credit for the win/loss? Thanks.

Shawn Liu's going to be there, if that means anything. I remember seeing a pretty wide variety of skill levals in San Shou. The forms comp is pretty bad(for CMA).

[Cipher]

So when you sign up to fight is it divided up only by weight? Like you would fight in a certain weight division no matter what, the sole dtermining factor is weight. Or is it done by weight and experience, amount of time training, age and so forth. I know weight is a determining factor but are there intermediate and advanced divisions? If so how do they determine what you should fight in? I just wan to have all of my eggs in one bascket before I commit to anything.

For the shin pads, can you wear the plain shin pads or the shin and instep pads? D you guys find that the instep help or makes it harder?

Another idea. Do they base it on how many full contact fights you have been in, like your fight record. I have no record so what would that mean? Thanks everyone for the help and answers.

[Mutant]

cifer,
its mainly based on weight class, but the organizers try to pair it up so that inexperienced people fight eachother first, before they have to fight seasoned fighters or prior champions, which are usually seeded to fight later in the event. this can prevent an unprepared first timer from fighting a real monster. but its just up to the organizers to figure out quickly after the weigh-in, so its not fool-proof and depends on who shows up for the event.

one of my training partners, emin, fought mahmood (sp?) the former egyptian world champion in his first ever san shou fight. he got beat up pretty good, tko'd near the end of the 2nd round if i recall, but he survived the fight and had some good laughs with us all, including his oppontent after the fight so it was all good in the end with no hard feelings.

another training partner/kung fu brother of mine, carol, had to fight the south african national champion, who is now the coach of the s.african team, in his first fight. he fought well but lost by decision.

i think its more organized now and the chances are that you'll start off with someone fairly equal experience-wise. depends on the tournament and the organizers. but you might as well train like youre gonna fight the champ anyway....do tons of cardio!
good luck!

-mutant

[cagey_vet]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
I have spent the majority of my life in Chinese martial arts, only to watch it continually detreriorate until it has become quite a joke. A once great fighting tradition now produces "forms collectors" and there is a great dillusion over most of the students. The Chi blast reference comes from a famous book on kung fu training, famous at least in my time, maybe you never saw it?

I continually hear and see people criticize San Shou who could frankly not punch their way out of a wet paper bag. People who think "kung fu" is a drive in movie or the matrix, as if striking, kicking and throwing is not Chinese martial art

I see no point in arguing with people who think that "kung fu fighting" is some esoteric and fancy mystical technique, they will believe what they want to believe. But I will continue to chuckle when they criticize San Shou


ok, thats fine. i understand what you mean now.
i criticize it from a different standpoint, however. one
that doesnt contain the usual esoteric Chi rants. so
any time i make a comment that may not exactly
be positive towards san shou, you wont see any
complaints about weird postures or energy blah blah
blah.
i was just a little put off by what you said because
there was none of that in my post. and there never
have been, quite frankly.
i believe that there are several disparate categories
of 'fighters', among them are the kickboxer types,
who primarily do kicking and punching without stylistic
representation or tendency, and its that category in
which any san shou i have ever seen embraces.
please please please correct me if there is a fighter
i am missing, because i would LOVE to see a guy represent
his style fully in the course of a competition REGARDLESS
of style.
watching a guy kick and punch with unorthodox techniques
is interesting, but gets old after a while for me.
i would rather watch a guy put together a match
with pure techniques from his style.



ok, that said... maybe it would do us some good if we read
each others posts better so we can see where we are coming
from before we chuckle ;)
good luck in your endeavors and good luck avoiding Chi blasts.

[Mutant]

cagey-vet,
i think one reason that you don't see much 'stylistic' signature in san shou is because under those sport rules, and against a formidable opponent, people tend to stick with basics. too much extra movement or style resembling forms can be the mistake that gets you nailed. you can see the same thing in olympic fencing...the athletes are very conservative and movements are basic, any extra 'style' like you see in classical practice will be monopolized on by the opponent, it is too evenly matched. just an observation. i used to share your ppinion when i first saw san shou, then i realized that the important stuff, the founation or core of the style can still be there without overt 'signature' movements that are the strereotype of a particular art. and after all, real CMA have more in common at the core level than not, youre just not seeing too many stylistic specialty techniques because people abandon trying to do them once theyre on the lei tei under certain rules with certain equiptment and some monster is trying to take their head off. but if you observe for awhile you actually can see background/style differences between fighters.
just my $.02
-mutant

[SanShou Guru]

Mutant put it about as good as you can.

I would just point out that at no level anywhere in the world of free fighting have I EVER seen a traditional fighter using specific style moves (i.e. Xing-I, BaGua, mantis, etc.) EVER win. I hear stories all the time about street fights where people did this or that move, That's fine, but in a ring match against a trained fighter it does not work like that. If I had to choose between one of my fighters fighting someone who trained traditional techniques for ten years or sport fighting for one I would take the traditional fighter every time.

[Ralek]

The reason they don't use kung fu is becuase kung fu does not work in real fights. All kung fu is good for is dancing with your forms.

That's why when you watch san shou you will be able to see the moves of Muay thai, kickboxing, wrestling. But no kung fu moves because those are just for show.

[Budokan]

Shut up, Rolls.

[SanShou Guru]

Guess I should repost this.

"ralek,

I don't normally respond to trolls of your level but what the heck.

saying that ONLY TKD does spinning techniques is as stupid a statement as saying that if you leg kick you must be Tai. If you asked Cung (not Kung) Le what style he trains and uses, he would say San Shou, not modified TKD, Tai, Wrestling, Kickboxing, just San Shou which is all these things and more.

But then you can say what you want since everybody knows that you don't really know sheite about fighting.

buh bye. "

[cagey_vet]

i beg to differ.
i have seen hsing-i guys use hsing-i technique
and win in competition. now, thats not saying
it was san shou competition... but if a guy uses
ONLY hsing-i in lei tai style tournaments, i would
tend to think that they would use ONLY hsing-i
anywhere else, correct? fighting is fighting, lei tai
or san shou, its still fighting. i have seen plenty of
knockouts via hsing-i, and have been knocked out
myself once from hsing-i technique, as well as
knocking out an assailant in the streets with my
own hsing-i.

weird postures and extra movement are just that.
extra, weird and unnecessary. hsing-i fighting technique
and principles by definition and demonstration LACK
extra movement and posture, because the proof is
in the delivery, not in the wind up.

i suppose thats where we will differ in this, but i see
your point. maybe you just havent seen GOOD hsing-i
representation :( and thats the fault of the collective
hsing-i camp, and there are those of us that know it
and try to change it.

[Ralek]

San Shou guru. You may not realize it but in your post above mine you admited that they don't use kung fu in san shou and that they only use mauy thai, kickboxing, wrestling.

[SanShou Guru]

ralek - The way you would understand it yes. I do not think traditional training is adequate for fighting in the ring but in no way do I say San Shou is not Kung Fu, because it is. We throw leg kicks like MT fighters because that is the mechanics of a good leg kick, in any style. We train in boxing because boxing basics are the most effective by our own experience.

The kick catches in San Shou I have not seen in other styles so where do they come from?

I could say the BJJ is just Wrestling with Chi Na and western boxing. You throw like a wrestler, punch like a boxer and submit with join attacks.

read the post again and see if it makes sense to you because I did not say what you think I said.