Wah Lum stick

[Tainan Mantis]

In Master Chan's flute and stick book he calls the stick form basic stick. But I remember that we called it RIGHT HAND STICK and that basic stick was another form that came later in the curriculum.

So what is the name of the stick form in the book?

[woliveri]

I believe you are correct. Basic stick has leg and stick sweeps in conjunction if I remember correctly. I learned right hand stick, plum flower stick (seminar) and basic stick. In the 1984 student manual it is written as: Stick - Rt. Hand Basic for level 10. In level 9 it then has Basic Stick listed.

[SaMantis]

Yes, that's right -- Basic Stick is a different form.

The form in the book is Right Hand Stick, but in there it's called basic stick. Don't know why. Author's privilege? Or perhaps just calling it a basic stick form, since it's the first stick form in the curriculum.

But the form called "Basic Stick" comes later.

Or maybe I just confused everybody. :p

Sam

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Basic Stick and Right Hand Stick are indeed two different forms. Now before we start picking apart the books and videos I would just like to say that Wah Lum is evolving under the direction of Master Chan. As many of the ex-students know the curriculum has changed over the years. Master Chan is continually refining the material he has gathered from his Wah Lum Sihings and brothers. Wah Lum today is much better defined than it was years ago. Unfortunately for Wah Lum many of LKS students went off on their own after his essentially fragmenting the style. Master Chan has spent his life regrouping this information back into a cohesive style.

Now, if you look back at the books he has published you will see some minor descrepencies from what is taught today. The first handbook put together by Tom Turcotte helped to organize the training by getting it down on paper.

I agree with SaMantis that it is meant to be listed as a basic stick form and not actually named Basic Stick. I'll have to look at the book again, it's been a lot of years since I read it.

[NorthernMantis]

Maybe it's called basic stick because right hand stick is a basic stick form?

[SaMantis]

Right!

No wait, left ... no, right ...

:D

[Kempo]

Isn't there also a 16 style stick form? Right hand stick is taught first, so does 16 style come before of after basic stick?

[woliveri]

Kempo,
could you be thinking of 16 hands? I've never heard of a 16 style stick. Anybody else who's current in the system?

[NorthernMantis]

It's also called 16 movement stick.I'm not sure if you learned it Wolivery.I know it.It is learned after right hand stick.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

16 Style (Movement) Stick is a seminar form that was added to the curriculum a few years back. Well after woliveri's time. I'm not sure about it's origin. It has some slick moves in it. I like it. At one time I was turning it into a 2-Man set for shows but I didn't have a partner.

[woliveri]

Hua Lin Laoshi wrote:
I'm not sure about it's origin.

You mean you think it's not a true Wah Lum form? Derived from another system?

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

woliveri
I just mean that it's not an advanced form and was not in the curriculum until recently. Whenever Master Chan goes to China he spends time with family and kung fu brothers (mostly the same people I think) and gathers more info, forms etc. I've heard that some of the older ones still have material they want to show him before they pass on. That could explain how and why we recently aquired the form. As I mentioned in another post I think Master Chan is still solidifying Wah Lum. He also has a lot of written text in the form of poems that require knowledge of the techniques to recreate the forms. He may be pulling new forms from these old texts. I haven't asked.

[flem]

i have always felt that the forms, not all, were parts of longer forms. 16 styles stick is aperfect example, i have no way of knowing but it seems like master chan gives different pieces to the puzzle so that students have to share- commit to a brotherhood- in order to eventually get the whole thing. i know for sure that the master stick form that i was learning, was not taught previous- or not to the masses anyway. the fan forms in particular seem to fit together. i thought of this after seeing one of the original chia tour tapes where this kid performed a double broadsword form that went on for about 10 minutes.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Seminars are always part of a form. 16 Style Stick was a seminar so it could be part of a larger form.

[woliveri]

Wasn't there another stick form that was broke up into sections (6 I think)?

[isol8d]

Originally posted by Hua Lin Laoshi
Seminars are always part of a form.

This explains a lot to me. The Butterfly seminar last year was the first one I have attended, and I swore up and down to my wife that it was incomplete.

Thanks!

[flem]

plum flower stick was taught in one session. i think the partial thing is an evolution, either so that slackers can keep up, to lesson video retention, make more money, or all of the above. that is something i disagree with alot- whats the point of a curriculum when you can learn so called advanced material at the same time you learn 8 chain punch? it throws the learning progression out the window. plus, seminar forms are eventually added to the curriculum- imagine if that were the case with college- no one would graduate.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

I don't mean to say that EVERY seminar is incomplete. Just that most of them are. I didn't learn Plum Flower Stick at a seminar. BTW, are you sure that's the whole form? :p

I'm with you about the seminars and adding new material. It's rare that you find an advanced seminar. That doesn't bring in as large a crowd. I guess that's why I learned the rest of a couple seminars at a later date at the school. What I have noticed is that between the rate at which I'm learning and the rate that new material is added and my age I probably won't learn the whole Wah Lum System in my lifetime. :) I've been at it almost 12 years and I'm not even half way!

[woliveri]

Hua Lin Laoshi

I probably won't learn the whole Wah Lum System in my lifetime

Correction, you will never learn the whole system if you grew to be 150 years old. :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Pong Lai]

Flem:

I agreee what some of your reasons why some schools/persons offer seminars. I see a seminar's true purpose is to promote your style to others whom may not, for various reasons, otherwise have an opportunity to learn from that particular style/ school. It provides a good opportunity to pick up and understand principles of that style. Understanding even the most basic principles of numerous styles can further develop you as a fighter.

Seminars should not teach "entire" forms. I do not think anyone's MA skill will improve with devouring a form in a weekend or week for that matter. You can teach a path of a form, its applications, theories and principles and still run out of time in a three day weekend seminar.

Holding seminars for your own students/school is always a questionable practice. Since you all speak of WL, I see that seminars held by Master Chan gave WL branch schools the opportunity to learn directly from him. It keeps many WL"s motivated. If offered for this purpose, I feel it is a good tool. I know my students become more motivated when given the opportunity to learn directly from my teacher, etc.
If a 8 Chain puncher wants to try, it might be a good eye opener for his MA path ahead?!

[flem]

pong lai

it is agreat tool so long as the correct attitude is taken-used. but far too many believe they can duplicate jeet kune do, or atleast immulate bruce lee, and end up with alot of nothing- because they do not pocess the intellect. plus as far as the 8 chain puncher goes you know better, atleast you should. the basics are everything, he(they) will be learning too fast just doing the normal curriculum, and that is why that practitioner had to ask about joint problems issueing( fa jing). the way i view it, the practioner progresses at a steady rate, in fact most people share a similar pattern of learning- if this was not true then why not teach a couple advanced forms, ones that have in them the heart of the style and be done with it. as for other WLers getting to learn from master chan, meeting him, doing a regular class, correcting the material they already have, seeing him do some or all of a basic form- these will all do it for them. hey, let them see 2nd exercise, then they will know how it is done, then when it changes again.....????