ATTN: Ralek

[Jaguar Wong]

I have a serious question now. This has nothing to do with all your challenge matches, schedule changes, or so called "backing out". We all know you don't study anything, but I'm wondering if you love BJJ so much, why don't you actually go study it? There are several others wondering the same thing I'm sure. Is it because you're actually afraid that people will recognize you from your internet hijinks? Do you really think you're that recognized on the internet? It's not like that, I can guarantee you. Just walk into a school, sign up and put in the work. It's simple as that.

I don't care if you stop talking trash or not, just go put in some work, so you can actually see what it's like to "reap what you sow". Do you even have the heart to put in the work to get good at BJJ? I'm thinking you don't. Is it about the money? I'm sure you could at least set something up with some schools to accomodate you. There are plenty of good schools that work with people that can't afford the high monthly rates. Perhaps you could clean the mats after a class, or are you too good for that?

I mean no offense by this thread, I'm just wondering why you won't put in the work to actually gain something from your obvious love of grappling. It's very hard work, and a lot of times, you learn respect for people when you see how much work they actually put in. Seriously, put the DualShock™ down, head to a gym, and roll with actual grapplers, not just some weak attempt at creating your own fight club with your buddies that have no real knowledge of what real fighting is like. From your "commentary" on your fight with ShaolinTiger, you don't even know what it's like to spar, much less fight. Are you really convinced that was a fight? That was just like every single hard sparring session that martial artists go through, whether they're good fighters or not. I've suffered worse injuries while doing simple grappling drills. Actually I've suffered worse just holding a kicking shield for someone.

There really is a whole other level that you're missing out on by playing armchair grappler. The CD Roms aren't the same, reading books, and websites aren't the same, playing video games aren't the same. Go experience it for real...It's much different, and you'll actually grow up doing it.

PS: You can keep the challenge stuff going, but just be aware that in the real world, when you issue a challenge, you're the one that needs to accomodate the people who take you up on it. Even at the Gracie Academy, I'm sure they didn't have a "open challenge on Friday Mornings" policy. Open door challenges are just that...when someone walks in, they're challenging you. They don't walk in and make an appointment based on your schedule. I'm sure there are some accomodations made.

If you can't fight on the 12th, why should JF believe that the 19th will stay open? You're really wasting his time if you just keep juggling the schedule around. You can't see the future, so why would you expect him to keep an appointment that you can guarantee 100%. Why can't you guys fight on a Sunday?

[Nexus]

Ralek trains via Cd-ROM and video games at least seven hours a day, that's more than most of us here. We should be giving him an achievment award, not asking that he does more than he already is.

[Jaguar Wong]

LOL. I'm on the internet for hours and hours a day (I do web design crap, so I'm on more than I care to be). I spend a lot of time researching many different styles, principles, techniques and stuff like that. I also read a lot of books (mostly on Chin Na, throwing and grappling), but I don't count any of that toward my "training". I also play a lot of WWF Smackdown, and MetalGear Solid2, but I don't consider that to be wrestling, or small arms/tactical training. ;)

Seriously, though. Too many of us spend much more time researching martial arts whether it's through video games, books, websites, CD Roms, or other media on top of what actual time we spend training. I don't think I'm asking too much of him.

PS to all members. Please don't hijack this thread, unless you're here to talk about MetalGear Solid 2. :p Let's try to keep this serious, though. There are plenty of threads to take a cheap shot at Ralek in. I know we've all done it in threads that he doesn't even post or read.

[Ray Pina]

I'm ashamed that no one in his area has taken care of this problem yet. If this guy was claiming such in the NYC area, he'd be scared to leave his house.

Until someone shuts him up, he's going to talk. I hope JS is good, and I hope he ends it quick. None of this rounds crap. One initiation, one man goes down!

[Ralek]

I've already fought shaolin tiger. And I am going to fight apoweyn on the 19th. If apoweyn beat me though it doesn't matter becuase he does kickboxing a style that i already respect.

JF springer won't be able to shut me up becuase he has decided not to fight me becuase of the date change. But if he changes his mind i am ready to fight him. He has my preference over apoweyn. He is on the #1 spot of my list of people to fight.

My fight with apoweyn is more of a learning experience rather than a style comparison becuase i already respect kickboxing. Benny "the Jet" Uridez knocked out many kung fu masters and grand masters with kickboxing.

[red5angel]

Is it possible for you to meet Raleks challenge?

[Jaguar Wong]

It's "Urquidez", and you still haven't answered my question. It's actually a serious question.

[Ralek]

I don't need to go to a BJJ school. The Gracie Total Defense CD-ROM (TM) satisfies all my BJJ needs.

[Jaguar Wong]

LOL. OK, I guess we'll just leave it at that. I figured you didn't have the heart to put the work in, though. Do you at least have any written BJJ materials (books, magazines, comics...)?

[Ralek]

I have some UFC videos. And i have the Gracie in Action videos of BJJ beating down kung fu masters in no rules challenge matches.

[Ray Pina]

I already offered to put him up at my place in NYC and introduce him to Hung Gar, Wing Chun, S. Mantis and Ba Gua/Hsing players. He doesn't want to come to NYC (This is Bak Mei, name change).

I offered to pay if he beat me. Anyway, I may actually be in Baltimore in a few months, but, if Ralek things Benny the Jet is a master, and has fought masters, there is really very little common ground for us to meet at.

The way I train is pretty tough. I don't see how I could prosper from such an encounter. Someone heading all the way to Maryland and hurting someone looks a lot like assualt. If we signed documents before hand, perhaps.

I wish the kid the best. I hope he can back up what he says, but surely the level of artists he has encountered is low, to be talking purely of S. Mantis -- not a kiddie art.

I respect Mai Tay boxers as well. I don't think highly of too many arts, Mai Tai is one that I do. Juijitsu, is OK I guess, but when you learn how to beat them (as most in the UFC have done) they aren't much. I can't like a system that prefers to go down. Very dangerous in this world of friends and knoves, could be bad for one's back.

But, to each their own. I hope JS dioes the S. Mantis fist well, we have a good reputation, at least here in NYC. If he's the real deal, Ralek will be in for a fight. Maybe ICU.

[Ralek]

Evolution fist. I cannot travel. But if you can come to frederick i will pay your expenses if you win.

[apoweyn]

i'll try this again. i'm not a kickboxer. it's a generic term i use to describe the hand-to-hand element of my practice. i'm certainly no benny the jet.

my primary style is eskrima.


stuart b.

[red5angel]

Apoweyn, What is eskrima? I have heard this tossed around but am not sure what exactly it is.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
I
Juijitsu, is OK I guess, but when you learn how to beat them (as most in the UFC have done) they aren't much. I can't like a system that prefers to go down. Very dangerous in this world of friends and knoves, could be bad for one's back.



Stick around in Vegas for a couple of days and I will change your mind for you.

[apoweyn]

red5angel,

it's one of the terms used to describe filipino martial arts. it's a bit generic, in the way that the term 'gung fu' is generic.

it's generally associated with stickfighting by those outside the system, and very often with knifefighting by those inside the system.

single stick, double stick, stick and dagger, empty hand, etc.

the various arts are usually referred to under the blanket terms eskrima, arnis, kali, or FMA.


stuart b.

[grifter721]

Who the hell has evrer beaten a kung fu mster????
In UFC videos or some other mixed martial art aka full contact drivel. I guarantee nooo kung fu MASTER has ever fought in any ufc, or anything like that. Go to china where there are real fights between people becuase the laws there are different , and thailand where there are real fights. ANybody that says fight will go to the ground are talking absolute BULL****. There is no way that someone will withstand a shoot in if you kick him with shoes on mind you anywhere on his body especially groin, stomach area. BJJ is good but far from superior. Whoever thinks Kung fu Sucks, you have seen too much tv, and not the real tghing, or an awful depiction of the style. I can easily go and fight someone and say that I am fully A GRANDMASTEr at Judo lets say and get my ass kicked. Lets face it everyone witha lil bit o training thinks that they are the **** especially if they watch ufc and pride religiously.
Ralek watch K1 and see if anyone in bjj, or grappling skills win that. No flippin way that is where the heavyweights are, teh more serious strikers. A bjj can take only the guys without good enought striking ability and the ufc is not a good enough example to give becasue most of those guys are just big brutes. Bj Penn, and a few others are the only ones I say that can truly fight.

Not all kung fu styles are wicked but if you get a good eough teacher they will teach you soem ****. I learn Tang Lang with a genius for fighting. He made an already agressive style into a something even more nasty.
If you think that tv, and cdroms can teach yeah go ahead and be an indiot, I thought the same **** up till I was like 15. There is no way you can possibly KNOW those moves, and I KNOW THE GOOD KUNG FU PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM WILL BACK ME UP AND SAY "To know a move you have to spend a **** load o time and effort with it, and know how to do it, ie a good sifu to help you along the way.
No flippin video game is teaching you how to kick.
And I could type until I way blue in the face trying to explain how to do a proper technique, you have to have hands on experience learning ****.

Thats the end o my 2 cents.

[red5angel]

apoweyn, does it resemble any other art out there? Can you describe the open hand techniques for me?

[Ralek]

Grifter. The challenge matches i'm talking about were not held in the UFC. I'm talking about the GRacie in action videos. It has Challenge matches with no rules held in the school. You even see them trying to do their groin grabs.

There was this really funny fight with this shoalin Boxer with 15 years of training that claimed to be undefeated. Royce took him down and really embarassed him. Then there was this "modern wing chun" guy that got beotch slapped about 50 times.

[Tigerstyle]

"Juijitsu, is OK I guess, but when you learn how to beat them (as most in the UFC have done) they aren't much."

Actually, in most cases where BJJ was defeated, it was by opponents that crosstrained in BJJ or a similar grappling/submission style.


"watch K1 and see if anyone in bjj, or grappling skills win that. No flippin way"

grifter,
K-1 is a striking tournament. Grappling techniques are not allowed. ;)

[LEGEND]

K-1 guys like Peter Aerts and Andy Hug are great fighters but they would admit that MMA is totally different. They would get beat if ground fighting is allowed UNLESS they crosstrained to stop a takedown.

[Xebsball]

I would have fought Ralek if i lived around there.

The other time he said he cant afford to come here neither can i afford to go there, so nevermind.

[Merryprankster]

Grifter;

Appreciate your anger, but it's the internet man. Lighten up.

EvolutionFist: You're remarkably well-spoken, and it appears to me that your knowledge is reasonably deep, but every now and then, you say something that just strikes me as horribly odd. I promise you that jiujitsu hasn't been "figured out." I hardly consider a style that more or less FORCED other people to adapt to THEM (ie how do I do what I want to without getting choked or submitted) to be merely "ok." The bottom line is that without groundfighting knowledge you are a sitting duck for somebody who has it, IF you wind up on the ground with them.

It comes down, oddly enough, to the person. There are several successful BJJ guys competing in MMA, but they will all tell you that MMA is different than BJJ, and that it's tough to win in MMA with straight, sport style BJJ. BJ Penn comes to mind. I believe Dean Lister has been successful, Minatauro to...Fabiano Iha has had some memorable matches, and the Gracies, love 'em or hate 'em, have all done very well too... every now and then you get a guy like Sakuraba who comes along and just demolishes people, but that's neither here nor there--it's something that happens in a competitive sport. You win some, you lose some... if we all got into streetfights with the kind of regularity that these guys step into the ring then we'd be in the same boat of winning some and losing some.

Here's an irony for you Evolution: We train on the ground a lot, to minimize the time we have to spend there. Make sense? Because of my groundfighting skills, if something happens, oh, lets say, blind tackle from behind by large smelly wierdo, I am, barring knockout on impact, very confident of my ability to rapidly reverse position, get up and run. Given that the ground is such a nasty place to be, we also train in ways to minimize the damage we take while there so that we may maximize our chance to survive. The submissions and what not are, to my mind, gravy... extras... I prefer the old tried and true combo of sweep, knee on belly, pound face, looking around to ensure I'm not getting approached, soccer kick the head, and bail ASAP.

Lastly, here's my theory on Ralek. I believe Ralek actually trains in BJJ beyond CD's and Video. The REAL reason he doesn't want to fight any BJJers is because he is afraid that one of us in the area will recognize him. It's not good form to run around challenging other people in a belligerent manner, and I think he's concerned that his instructor might get ****y with him....

That or else I'd beat him down in the next tournament :)

[joedoe]

Well said Merryprankster. Your idea of learning groundfighting to minimise the time spent on the ground makes a lot of sense.

[Water Dragon]

Yeah, Ralek trains. He's made appearences on other boards where his posts betray him. He might be as high as blue or purple from what I gather. He's also not as dumb as he likes to appear. If you ignore his classic repeat posts, he shows his intelligence. Personally, I think he's having a hoot at the fact that so many people here still respond to him. He probably can't figure out what makes him so interesting.

I think the truth of the groundfighting story lies at the halfway point between MerryPranksters view and EvolutionFists. It's not magic, and it;s not all that. For some reason, it's a part of fighting that was just ignored for a long, long time. I think we're gonna start seeing groundfighting for what it really is. Simplistic, but necesary. I also think we're already seeing the development of different "schools". People still generally call it all BJJ, but it surely is evolving along various different avenues as we speak.

[reemul]

Actually the BJJ'ers have not forced all others to adapt to them, only the contemporary, watered down versions of systems needed to adapt. I will say that they brought back some of the brutality of fighting to the Sport oriented MA community of the U.S.
One of the reasons our school doesn't do tournaments is because of how we train. We actually hit with force. At the time my teacher was coming up he kept getting disqualified for one reason or another, mostly excessive force. That is when his teacher decided that competing in this atmosphere was a waste.

To Ralek,

by my schools standards only, 15 years does not a master make. Nor does being a master mean your are invincible.

[LEGEND]

Waterdragon...I don't think he's a purple or a blue...I recently started rolling with YAMASAKI's and from the description described by the fight vs. Shaolin he didn't do the things blues and purples do.

[Water Dragon]

True, if the fight happened. There have been some nsterious posts on both the Undeground's BJJ board and intheguard that suggest Ralek posts there and is more experienced than he lets on.

[ShaolinTiger00]

He is Definately not a blue or purple belt. trust me.

Legend, you rolling at Rockville? See you there. I'll be working on muay thai but will be taking a Bjj class once a week.

[apoweyn]

red5angel,

does eskrima resemble other arts out there? well, it certainly shares some similarities with other southeast asian arts (silat or kuntao for example). it puts a high premium on flowing, and i've seen chinese broadsword and longsword work that bore some resemblance. superficially, they don't look much alike. but the ideas are the same, in my opinion.

as for the empty hand element, it depends. as i understand it, FMA empty hand isn't as codified as it might be. many filipino masters had backgrounds in other things. and that tended to flavour the empty hand. so pangamot (empty hand) tends to be a synthesis of some of the concepts of weapon work and whatever previous background there was.

take ciriaco canete, of doce pares eskrima, for example. strong background in boxing, karate, and judo. the empty hand work that i learned tends to reflect that. but, again, a high premium is placed on flowing and sensitivity, which i've always seen as common to gung fu.

but that's just my take. others' may vary.


stuart b.

[Jaguar Wong]

reemul,
excessive contact is only illegal in point sparring tournaments, I've lost a few points for that because of how "our school trains" as well. If you feel the need to test your skills in a more fitting environment, I can guarantee you that your Sifu won't be DQ'd for excessive contact in a San Shou, or Kuo Shou tournament.

Also, I don't think every style has felt the need to adapt becuase of BJJ's success, but IMO most that haven't, really need to at least take a closer look at why it's working. Many styles (mostly the commercial crap) talk all day about why they wouldn't lose to BJJ, and it's mostly based around a couple of sub standard takedown defenses. The success of BJJ has been a wake up call for many styles, though. I don't mean that all styles must incorporate the techniques, but most had to take notice, and either dust off their old "playbooks" that have been retired because many felt the ground aspect was too vulnerable, or use the techniqeus they already taught in order to deal with a new generation of fighters, using a set of techniques long forgotten (grappling is one of the oldest, and most under rated skill sets).

I don't think all styles need to rush out to a BJJ school, or hire a local purple belt to teach the basics, but I do feel that all styles need to give the ground more respect. By that I mean either use their style to keep the fight off the ground (which isn't always 100% reliable...For the most part though, this is what I'm doing. The only difference is that I'm also adding a couple of counters from wrestling as well as the techs from my base style), or learn how to get back up without giving up an advantageous position to a trained groundfighter. It's much easier to learn how to escape and get back to your feet, than it is to learn how to out submit a submission expert. It all comes down to common sense... "don't box a boxer" :) But, I find it quite fun to bring people down when they don't have much experience "rolling on the ground with sweaty men", and tapping them out. I am probably one of the worst submission fighters around, but when faced with people with no experience (or less than me, which isn't much), I've tapped them out pretty quickly (mostly with the gullotine choke, and the ankle/achillies lock...you know, the stuff a real grappler could easily stop :))

[Ralek]

Yes. It's true. I'm a white belt in BJJ. Acutally i'm not a belt at all becuase i don't go to any schools.

Shaolin Tiger can vouch for this. He has fought me on the ground. I do know some BJJ moves but i really don't get to practice them all that much. Shaolin tiger has also visited some BJJ schools after our fight and he can tell you that the blue's and purples are way more skilled than me. I cannot compare to a BJJ blue belt.

[Jaguar Wong]

I do know some BJJ moves but i really don't get to practice them all that much

Oh no, I have the same grappling experience as Ralek ;) This is exactly my problem as well. The only difference is that I actually practice my stand up skills when I can't practice the grappling.

[Merryprankster]

Whoa!

Don't misquote me! I don't think that the groundgame is the end all, be all--- it's not. It's part of a whole.

Let me tell you where groundfighting and all its applications shine: in a "duel," like a sportfight! You don't have to worry about getting bootstomped.

Where it doesn't shine: in a parking lot where a bad guy and 3 of his friends want to beat on you. I'd prefer not to be trying my armbar and get kicked in the face, on the other hand, the ESCAPES and protective maneuvers DO come in handy here.