View Full Version : YAU KUNG MUN,DRAGON,BAK MEI, MANTIS & BFP similarities

10-11-2000, 01:46 PM
as stated above, i am curious to hear from our other southern brothers on the similarities between our systems. mine being yau kung mun.

at what stage do you learn to develop ging?

what are the traditional conditioning methods used?

body postures, stances. are they long , short, protective of the groin area etc?

what level do you learn the pheonix fist?

what training do you have to develop the ging for weapons?

lets try and have a serious discussion without badgering. other threads are getting out of hand. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

10-11-2000, 05:32 PM
Hi! This subject has come up a few times in the past and it's quite interesting. Just last week, for the first time, I saw some White Eyebrow on the ALMA website. The form was linear, the guy going forwards, turning round and coming back, turning round and going forwards again etc. and the techniques resembled the southern mantis I study.

What's Yau Kung Mun in English?

In southern mantis, ging training starts in lesson #1 but it won't come out for a long time.

Conditioning methods vary between teachers. My class trains conditioning by hitting each other. We hit fingers, hands, feet, arms, legs, backs, sides, ribs/abdomen and throat. I enjoy most of it...

Most of the time the stances are relatively high bow stance with some longer lower bow stances. Training is done face straight on and fighting more at an angle.
Shoulders and ribs are dropped and the shoulders often pushed forwards for extra reach.

Pheonix-eye fist is taught from Lesson #1 followed by ginger fist ("gurn a choi") soon after.

I don't know about the weapons training. :-(

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

10-11-2000, 11:31 PM
bat ding bart but
sau chong som fut

my pak mei is very similiar to southern mantis, plenty of ging. hammers and pheonix being taught from 1 st class.
conditioning and sensitivity drills. the top 2 sentances are a basic stance and punch see if you can work it out!

we might just have a decent topic...

peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

10-12-2000, 11:02 AM
Hi ,

Looking at the first forms of these styles you can clearly see a lot of simularities. It's all about the float/sink & swallow/spit. They must come from the same origin.

I tried to look at the ALMA form. But it seems I need to have a credit card to gain acces. What a pity. Is there any other way I can see it? Is it possible for someone to mail it to me?

Ps, in my opinion it is these 'first forms' that are the most important forms of the systems.
Regards, Lau

10-12-2000, 10:01 PM

What do you consider the first forms for each system?


10-13-2000, 11:56 PM
Well, they aren't all exactly the same, but the similariries are very intriguing. There many odd variations within lineages too. The 3 steps up and 3 steps back principle seems fairly common to each. FT, David and Lau are right about the posture and stance.

10-14-2000, 12:11 AM
yau kung mun basically means hard/soft style,
the original YKM consists of only 3 internal forms. it used to be known as the "style with no name".
the 3 original forms are, as told to us about our history, the original dragon forms. many people might disagree, but each to their own.
our external hand forms are a combination of bak mei/dragon.

from what i've seen, we all have the basic jik bo kuen, whatever the name. our power generation is similar yet different. we tend to use the waist alot more.

are your stances linniar, as in full step front stance, ours is circular. the purpose is to off balance. we do have front linnier, but that serves a different purpose(depends on the attack or defence)

10-14-2000, 04:00 PM
Different styles obviously branching out to develope different ways of exspressing the same powers will have completely different looking forms and techniques but with the same style having versions of the same naming and looking forms is a result of what? Besides teacher's interpritations of the forms I suppose versions were taught to students within the same school.Even though theorietical the true system is passed to a selected few what happens to the overall image of a system when these versions are taught. Relating to what is now the discussion of whether or not clc's pakmei is the original and only(not to mention he too taught different versions).

10-14-2000, 08:47 PM
Is this the Queens English?

Actually the CLC Topic is long gone you just want to dig it up cuz you're new... or...?

You seem to think that YKM is the oldest of these arts when in fact it's the youngest.

10-15-2000, 08:51 AM
guys, can we forget about CLC's bak mei,
moq, you are correct about YKM being younger than bak mei(external forms only), the internal forms as stated earlier are old, they are said to be the original dragon as stated in my earlier post.

10-15-2000, 11:48 AM
This is the first time I've heard of YKM. Where is it taught, where did it come from etc?

What exactly is a circular stance..? Is it toes inward or feet on the circumference or...?

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

10-15-2000, 09:43 PM
YKM comes from southern shaolin temple.
our great grandmaster Ha Hon Hung brought the system out of the temple.
he originally trained under CLC & LYK, he left them to train with Tit Yan a shaolin monk, who taught our GGM the internal forms (3 only) of YKM. OUR GGM added the external hand forms from a combination of bak mei/dragon and whatever he learnt form Tit Yan.

our stance has the front leg facing 45deg. with toes gripping the floor, knee is bent to protect the groin area. balance is 50/50.

circular step means from a front stance, you bring your rear leg up in a semi-circular motion, so your feet are in together then out in front in line with your shoulder.

[This message was edited by lungyuil on 10-16-00 at 02:49 PM.]

10-16-2000, 11:56 AM
I train my steps in a circular manner but also with lift as if you were stepping round and over an obstacle...

Is there any chance a compilation video could be made of these styles early forms etc? Who wouldn't want that??

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

10-16-2000, 02:25 PM
David -
My Sifu is currently working on making a series of videos on YKM (internal & external). These will include some of the forms. There is also a web-site under construction - ill let you know when its up. in the mean time there is an american ykm web-site at ykmusa.com

Just to clarify - YKM is known as a southern style but it actually came from the NORTHERN shaolin temple. The monk Tit Yun travelled south & found 1 lay-person (HHH) to become his disciple (originally just the 3 internal forms + irom palm, meditation, herbs, push-hands etc). Yes he did learn Bak Mei prior to learning YKM - our external forms are those that Ha Hong Hung integrated from Bak Mei.

and it's "the original Dragon forms are internal YKM" not "the internal YKM are the original Dragon forms" (does that make sense?). I dunno if i believe that though - thats just off one web-site that is apparently questionable. My Sifu has never mentioned anything about this.

My Sifu & one of his Sihings have actually just had the Australian launch for a book & video on the system. They may be signing a deal with a publisher in the States very soon to do a whole series.

Anyway, if you want anymore info on the system you can email us on yaukungmun@hotmail.com

blessed be,

sing fu
10-17-2000, 03:35 AM

I wonder if you might be able to give some insight into the form names/structure of the physical training in Yau Kung Mun?

Thank you in advance!

10-20-2000, 09:30 AM
Some examples of form names and structures are:

Tung Jee Kuen - teaches you to get into punching range. Basis stance (moving) & punching training.

Sup Jee Kuen - teaches you to stay in puching range, short power development. This is different to other styles versions of sup jee.

Ying Ching Kuen - dynamic tension, muscle building, external ging, rib training. This is a cleansing form (health).

Sech Zee Kuen - teaches short power, this is also known as Dai Sup Jee Kuen.

Sum Mun Baqua - teaches you stomping ging, attacking from the 3 doors, lots of finger strikes. Lots of bridging techniques.

Look Hup Kuen - 3 internal & 3 external co-ordinates. Has a variety of moves from the other forms, but has different angulations.

Day Sut Kuen - ground killing fist, this is for grappling & take-downs. Some unusual kicking techniques.

Say Mun Baqua Kuen - second longest form. trains the chi & attacks the 4 doors. Unusual kicking techniques & seizing skills.

Sum Mun Kuen - attacks the 3 doors, has lots of charging techniques & follow-up skills.

Ly Jik Bo Kuen - very basic. slide step & punch. linear but has advanced level training. This must be learnt before any of the high level forms.

The above forms are just the beginners & intermediate levels.

The advanced levels are taught when Sifu thinks you are ready. They are taught privately after you have shown your loyalty to the system.

These are just forms - we do 3 - 4 hours training a night. This includes stance work, conditioning, pads & bag work, sensitivity, reflex drills, theories & principles, meditation, free sparring using techniqes from forms, group fighting,

sing fu
10-23-2000, 03:18 AM

Thank you very much. I remember visiting the YAUKUNGMUN when the kwoon was in Chinatown in Sydney. Wow, those must have been the days!

Master was featured in a special on the hidden community of chinatown as being a top kungfu master, and also I think as being a neuro-surgeon before coming to Australia.

When I visited the school was above a Chinese masonic society, and various long arms, swords, lion dance equipment and students/masters pictures aligned the walls.

I understand the school closed there, but reopened in suburban Sydney under the next generation, and you all still participate in the big chinatown chinese new year festivities as the lion dancing team!

Could you tell me a little more of the history of the art in Oz, and also what emphasis there in on weapons?

Shaolin Master
10-23-2000, 03:43 AM
Yes Quite Funny Bastet,

I remember judging your teacher Gary Hearfield at Sydney Town Hall, If I recall correctly he performed his basic Cross Fist. A little bit rushed and missing spirit with limited ging but he must have been young then /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also I remember attending the opening of the Yau Kung Mun School many years ago that did close down.

Didn't know he started teaching and wasn't aware he gained auhtority to do so but that is good as his students seem very motivated and well informed of their art. I will intend to visit your school and Gary to see how it is all going. What is the address (greystanes somewhere I heard?)

Please let me know
Peace and regards

Shi Chan Long

10-23-2000, 09:25 AM
it is nice to see someone remembers my sifu from when he was young.unfortunately the original school in chinatown is closed.

my sifus school is located at[B]carnation street, greystanes ph : (02)9609 1777[/B.

we do train hard like the old days.

i myself have been training with him for over a year and i can say that the knowledge i have received from him on body postures, ging, all the traditional conditioning etc, is very good.

our lion dance is still very popular on the new year including festivals.

10-23-2000, 12:30 PM
Sing Fu and Shaolin Master -

The school in Sussex St Chinatown is where my Sifu learned under Sigung Leung Cheung. Sigung was featured in the newspaper as the Master of Masters in Chinatown - he was holding a kwan dao in the photo. Sifu said that these WERE the good old days.....hard kung fu training, challenges, the smell of chinese medicine, the sound of the rings & wooden dummies.

Sigung came out to Australia around 1978 and began teaching Yau Kung Mun in Chinatown.

Unfortunately Sigung closed down the school in '87 but continued to teach privately to a select few students, as well as teaching at the park every Sunday (followed by yum cha of course). Sifu Garry was given the title of Sifu and opened up a school in 1992.

At the moment there are 3 YKM schools in Sydney, keeping the style alive in Australia after Sigung passed away early last year. If you want info on the other schools you can email me.

I asked Sifu about the demo - he laughed. He said that he agrees completely with your judgement. Needless to say, he is much improved after 10 years practise! Has my Sifu met you before? Sifu also used to attend the Traditional Chinese Martial Arts Assoc. meetings under Master Leung Cheung (he was the president) - were you there?

He is looking forward to meeting you & would like to arrange a yum cha with you & his kung fu brother Sifu Andy Troung of Wah Nam. Please contact him at yaukungmun@hotmail.com

What is your style Shaolin Master? Sifu is trying to put a face to the name....

Sing Fu -

to answer your last question.... students learn the basic stick after a few grades. Sifu will then choose a weapon that suits the abilities, body type etc of the student, before they move on to other weapons. The hand forms are more important than the weapon forms, but they are still a big part of the syllabus, they keep traditions alive while strengthening certain parts of the body. And everyone seems to enjoy swinging a blade (or whatever) around!

Hope that helped /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

blessed be,

hmmm - i dont seem capable of writing short posts - sorry guys.

10-25-2000, 02:12 PM
is america's ykm system differnt to australia's ykm. i have heard that it a little different to australia's version.
can you tell me more about your sifu's training under his teacher.


11-24-2000, 09:00 AM
I think you'll find more similaritys coming from the wu style tai chi.

One commonality i'm seeing is the leaning on the front leg, but not to a degree as extreme as in the wu style.

A great fighting foundation would combine the basics and techniques, and patterns from wu manchu, tiger claw and white dragon.

The REAL taichi: