JF Springer backed out!!!!!

[Ralek]

we had to change the date to the 19th and he ran away!!!!

I will have to fight apoweyn in his place!!!!!!!! This is an outrage!!!!!

[apoweyn]

careful ralek. you're going to hurt my feelings.

[Ralek]

I still look forward to fighting you apoweyn. But i prefer to fight kung fu fighters becuase kung fu is what i am trying to destroy.

[yuanfen]

Ralek- is there no end to your shading the truth?
YOU backed out after agreeing to time, place and date.
Transparent to any sensible person

[Ralek]

no. I changed the date of the fight becuase i was unavailable for the original time. That's called a "date change". If he doesn't want to fight me anymore becuase of a date change then i guess i will just have to fight apoweyn.

He is on the #1 spot of my list of poeple to fight. And i keep on trying to get him to fight me and am rigourously working my schedule to be able to fight him. I even let him break my fridays only rule. And you call it backing out? I didn't make the decision to have January 12th be unavailble. Higher powers made January 12th unavailable and I am working hard and offering other dates so that the fight may still continue. This is not backing out. It's called making every effort possible so the fight will happen.

[Jaguar Wong]

we had to change the date to the 19th and he ran away!

You had to change the date, not him. You had the fight set up, but you never really take anyone's personal time into your own schedule, so it's not as simple as "we had to change the date to the 19th".

So why can't you guys meet during the week? I'm thinking because JF is possibly too busy actually training. But I can't fathom why Ralek wouldn't be available. I know it's a school night, but it won't take 5-6 hours to take a beating. It can be done in the late afternoon, early evening still.

[Ralek]

I just don't get how making a date change so the fight will still be possible is considered backing out.

At least apoweyn has the will to fight whether it be the 12th or 19th.

[Ralek]

Good job apoweyn. You have earned my respect already. I admire your willingness to fight dispite the fact that i'm not free on the 12th. If kung fu people were like you then maybe they would get the chance to beat me in a fight.

Shaolin Tiger has my respect for his willingness to fight. Good job Shaolin Tiger. You are a kung fu hero.

JF Springer. You are free on saturdays. Aren't you? Is the 19th problematic for you? I can work with you on the date. If you can't make a certain date then we will find one you can make. I'm not available on the 12th so please don't make post about me backing out. It is beyond my control.

[rubthebuddha]

and you have the will only to fight if someone meets your times, dates and comes to your skanky neck of the woods.

so here we have ralek's credo:

I will fight anyone, anytime, anywhere, but only if they come to my ****hole of a home after me making all sorts of rescheduling efforts and the fight doesn't conflict with my newspaper route.

[Tigerdragon]

Ralek,
Your date change isn't necessarily "backing out". However, his refusing to fight that day isn't either. Maybe he cannot make it that day. Remember, he agreed to a specific day, not a time frame.

You have to understand something. All the time that I have seen you on this forum, you have seemed to double talk, disrespect, and purposely aggravate other people. Now why should anyone believe that this date change isn't more of the same? Look at it from other people's point of view. You are the one making the challenge. So you should be the one accommodating anyone who accepts it. You set the date. The other person agrees to it, (possibly needing to rearrange their schedule to accommodate) then you change the date.

If it were me, I would refuse the new date as well, if for no other reason then principle. Now regardless if the date change could be or couldn't be helped it is still an aggravation for someone who had already made preparations for the originally agreed date.

If you were more polite and respectful to people, no matter what you think about the art they train, more people would take you seriously.

Just my thoughts

[Ralek]

TigerDragon. If he doens't want to fight becuase of the date change then that's fine. I'll just fight Apoweyn. (Good job Apoweyn.) And i already said that if he can't make in the 19th then i'll work with him for another date. Springer is the one who wanted the fight to be on saturdays. This has led the the problem of the 12th.

Normally i can only fight on Fridays and this is the reason why. Things like this are the reason i can normally only fight on fridays. But i am going out of my way to find Saturdays that i can fight him and he gets a wedgie because i am not available on the 12th.

[Ralek]

Tiger Dragon. He is trying to totally break off connection with me. He has blocked my email address from mailing him. You'd think that if he was interested in fighting that he would be working with me to set up another date.

[Crimson Phoenix]

as hard as it is to admit, I have to say that it desn't seem to me that Ralek is backing out...arrrgghhhh I said it

[Ralek]

But do not fear. Dispite the fact that Springer is trying to totally block all communication with me and his unwillingness to try and set up a date that i can fight him, you all will still get to see a fight!!!

And the fight might actually be video taped!!! I'm fighting apoweyn on January 19th!!! Apoweyn has stepped up in place of Springers cowardly absence and attempts to stop rescheduling of the fight. Apoweyn does phillipino martial arts. And maybe if he knows how to put video on the internet you all will get to see the fight.!!!!

Apoweyn is the savior. All is not lost. Apoweyn has saved the day!!!

[DelicateSound]

Originally posted by Ralek
Tiger Dragon. He is trying to totally break off connection with me. He has blocked my email address from mailing him. You'd think that if he was interested in fighting that he would be working with me to set up another date.

I think JF's p!ssed at how you d!cked him around.

[joedoe]

I'll fight you Ralek, but I live in Australia and I can't travel and I can only fight on Saturday afternoons when it is snowing in Sydney and there is going to be a full blue moon.

So any time you are in Sydney on a snowy Saturday afternoon with a full blue moon, let me know. I'll be the one near the harbour :D

[Ralek]

Thank you Crimson Phoneix. You just earned yourself brownie points.

[Jacki]

I will fight you rolls!
You ever get your sorry ass choked out by a girl?


JKSmith

[Crimson Phoenix]

Wow, Ralek lucky you, you get to roll with this very fine lady...this is one fight you don't want to reschedule, believe me...and I guess you'll want to clinch fast heheheheh

[Ralek]

Jacki. Actually i did fight a girl outside the mall a few days ago. My frineds girl friend was mad at me becuase i was messing with him while he was trying to light a ciggarette. So his girl friend throws a round house and i lift my leg and blocked with my shin. She said "oww". I feel i won the fight.

[Ralek]

It seems like i have scared JF Springer away by simply trying to set up a date when we are both available. He blocked my email becuase of this but since i want to fight so much i made a new email account and emailed him in a further attempt to make the fight happen.

I want this fight to happen. Why must it be so difficult! JF springer is a discrace to real fighters like Shaolin Tiger and Apoweyn and myself.

[Ralek]

I challenge you to Mortal Kombat.

[Ralek]

JF springer. Please fight me.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Ralek
Jacki. Actually i did fight a girl outside the mall a few days ago. My frineds girl friend was mad at me becuase i was messing with him while he was trying to light a ciggarette. So his girl friend throws a round house and i lift my leg and blocked with my shin. She said "oww". I feel i won the fight.

Hahaha.................I have to admit , that was really funny, lol

[joedoe]

You totally ignored my offer to fight you. I am hurt now :(

[Ralek]

Joedoe. I'm glad you have more fighting spirit than JF Springer. But i can't travel to australia.

JF Springer was wise to run away and stop all possible communication with me and hide in his hole. Becuase Brazilian Jiujitsu is invincible against kung fu. Jiujitsu is like flyswatter. And kung fu is the fly. Right now the fly does not want to meet the flyswatter so the fly blocked the flyswatters email and trys to pretend the flyswatter is afraid. But the flyswatter made a new email account and will burst the flies bubble.

[joedoe]

You really should come down to Australia some time. We have some great fighters here. Just look at Steve Irwin the Crocodile Hunter - he is so mean he fights crocodiles!

Hey, if you come down to visit us here (it is nice and warm here, not like Maryland where it is probably snowing right now) we can fight by the harbour, chase a few kangaroos, shoot a few koalas, test your BJJ on a crocodile, then go down to the local for a beer or two.

:D

[Ralek]

Elvis Sinosic lives in Australia. He is a BJJ purple belt. I think he's the only purple belt in australia but i am not sure.

[joedoe]

I think he practices his BJJ on crocodiles.

So when he finishes his fights, do they say "Ladies & Gentlemen, Elvis has left the building"?

:D

[jon]

"I challenge you to Mortal Kombat."

"So his girl friend throws a round house and i lift my leg and blocked with my shin. She said "oww". I feel i won the fight."

"I want this fight to happen. Why must it be so difficult! JF springer is a discrace to real fighters like Shaolin Tiger and Apoweyn and myself."

"Right now the fly does not want to meet the flyswatter so the fly blocked the flyswatters email and trys to pretend the flyswatter is afraid. But the flyswatter made a new email account and will burst the flies bubble."



You really have to admit this is pretty darn hillarious...

Ralek im almost starting to like you, i worked with comics for 2 years and none of there sence of humour was as well developed.
No offence but i think JF just didnt fancy being known as the CMA who beat the snott out of some 18 yo kid with a weird sence of the bizare. That would be looked down upon, usualy its better to let fools be fools. If you were a ligit fighter and had half the respect for JF he deserves im sure you would be crossing hands.
Ahh Ralek you can sometimes make my day:D

[reemul]

For someone looking to face off against good KF practicioners you sure are inflexible about when and where. It sorta makes no sense. If your goal is to destroy KF, I don't see how you're going to do it from your backyard.

I think you're afraid to step out of your backyard cus you know you'll end up getting your a$$ kicked.(not a jab, just the truth).
If you are really interrested in destroying kungfu you're going to have to step out into the real world.

I have seen many a KF practioner willing to fight you including myself, however we don't find you worthy of travel.

So Dream on, about destroying Kungfu, unfortunately you lack the drive and ambition or skill from what I've heard to even test it.

[reemul]

Ralek wrote:


I want this fight to happen. Why must it be so difficult! JF springer is a discrace to real fighters like Shaolin Tiger and Apoweyn and myself.

JF springer. Please fight me.



Ralek

If you want to fight Springer so bad then why don't you fight him on the original date scheduled. If you can't do that then I guess you really don't want to fight him that bad

[scotty1]

Ralek is being pretty hilarious on this thread.

"She said ooow. I feel I won the fight."

Come on, he can't be for real.

[Yung Apprentice]

I thought I remember Springer say he was going to be in Ralek's neck of the woods only for a few days, because he was going to meet some friends there or buisness or something. So Ralek changes the date and says Springer backed out? How does Ralek figure that? Ralek why don't you grow hair around your balls put down the Street Fighter game and THEN come back on this board?:D

[mantis-1]

Ralek why don't you grow hair around your balls put down the Street Fighter game and THEN come back on this board?

He did and came back under the new name Jacki...kinda suits him.:D :D :D

[Ralek]

Young Apprentice. Your confusing JF springer with Aisa. Aisa is the one who will be visiting a friend when he fights me. This fight is a long way off so don't worry about aisa just right now.

JF springer lives in Maryland 20 minutes from frederick. I do not have a specific time frame that i'm limiting him to. In fact i'm having to work my schedule to accomadate him. That saturday thing was for him. And I couldn't make it on the saturday i orininally said i could be there. So i just simply offer to fight on the next saturday. He said he is free on saturdays. This can't be a big inconvinience for him. The inconvienience is mine. not his. Friday's are the only time i'm free and i have had to pull strings to get these saturday's.

But i will still be fighting someone so let's just forget Springer's cowardice and focus on Apoweyns bravery.

No i am not Jacki. You can check my IP address and it will be different from hers.

[Ralek]

JF Springer. I still plan on fighting you. So you can come back and set up a fight if you want. You are always welcome to come and set up a fight with me. You are #1 most disered person to fight.

Take care of yourself.

[Ralek]

to the top for JF Springer.

JF Springer. If you agree to fight me in the future then i take back all the things i say about you in this thread.

[JF Springer]

Here's the date-time & place to answer your challenge Ralek:
January 25th (Friday, I've rearranged my work schedule for that day), noon, Cooper Park, Sykesville, MD. As you said, I'm only 20 minutes from you which means you're only 20 minutes from me, understand? Cooper Park is easy to find, sits back away from the road, no one really uses it even during good weather, and I can assure you the local Police will be no where near the location. There will be no witnesses and no video tape. Now, you have plenty of time to scrounge up a ride, or borrow a bike as I'm within easy biking distance. Your challenge, my right to dictate terms and given your professed eagerness to “fight” my terms are no impediment to your showing. One rule, survive or don't. Have a nice day.

[Ralek]

Thank you JF Springer. Normally i can't travel. I will have to go out there before hand so I know how to get there and so i won't be late on the 25th. Friday is an excellent time for me. Thank you for making your schedule.

Looking at my map i see Skykesville. Can you give me some basic dirctions to find the park. What road is it along? I will look it up on map quest too.

It would be better if you came to my Park but i'll try to find your park. If i can't find it then we will have to fight at Baker park. But i think i will be able to find it. I'll go on a road trip there to make sure i know where it is.

[Jaguar Wong]

Dude, Ralek. You have to accept this. It's your day, in his location. That way you can still take a beating from Ap Oweyn on the 19th. There's no reason you can't take him up on this offer. After all, he's even rearranged his work schedule to fit your time frame.

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

[Jaguar Wong]

If you've got the address... (http://www.mapquest.com)

[JF Springer]

Nice try at getting an excuse lined up Ralek but it won't work. Cooper Park is listed by MapQuest. I checked before selecting it. The beginning of the park sits all of about 10 meters off of 32. 32 is a major highway off of US 70. Very simple, very direct, very easy to find. Cooper Park is directly across the street from Springfield Mental Hospital. Even they are able to "find" it Ralek. Pull into the Texaco gas station at the traffic light controlled intersection if you get "lost" Ralek. They'll direct you right around the corner so you won't have any "problem" finding it Ralek.

[Ralek]

Map Quest is auwsome. Now i theorectically know how to get there. I take exit 80 and turn left on to 32. Then turn left onto Cooper Dr. Sounds easy.

[JF Springer]

Nice try on the "word weasel" bit ". . . in theory . . ." but that won't work either Ralek. You stated the directions perfectly. I will have no further contact with you until Friday, 1/25/2002, 12 noon, Cooper Park, Sykesville, MD 21784.

[rubthebuddha]

i'm taking bets on how soon the wannabe son of rorion backs out. claim your times now -- the winner gets a cookie.

[KungFuGuy!]

Ralek, you and I have so much in common. We're both 18 years old, and we both have post counts that are equal to our weight!

[Shadowboxer]

I bet that he"fights" Apoweyn, "claims" that he won but sustained an injury that he hoped would be better by the 25th, but because it isn't and he isn't a 100%-he does not show up.

Apoweyn, save some for Springer. Please try not to hurt him too bad- as tempting as that may be.

[Ralek]

I will not have any injuries. I will be fine. Apoweyn does phillipino martial arts. My fight with him will be on the 19th.

JF Springer will be easily defeated. Kung fu doesn't work so i'm safe from injury agaisnt Springer. There was this one kung fu guy who thought he could fight and he got KO'd by a mediocre judo sports person in UFC #6. That is an embarrassement. Even Judo can beat Kung fu.

[bean curd]

ralek,

there is so many posts on this stuff i don't have the time nor the inclination to read them all, but i find it rather interesting to say the least.

i have read a few posts of jf springer and he has been upfront in what he says he does and where he has been. you on the other hand i am rather vague about, either you don't/won't say or it is fragmented in the many posts you do, so no bull, straight to the chase, can you provide me with some basic info.

i am not comparing you to anyone, you say allot and are or appear to be emotional with your comments, which is fine, but like i said just want to know where it is all coming from.

how old are you ??

what style(s) do you do ??

what lineage are you with ??

do you speak for a lineage or just yourself ??

how long have you been doing them/it ??

what personal experiances have you had to bring the conclusion you have about gung fu, i.e. what styles have you crossed hands with, thier training time etc.

just curious, i have read a few of these so called challenge fights, and out of them all that i have read i only know of three that actually took place, one in the open for the forum to read and two others behind closed doors, so is this for real or just a pi$$ing contest ??

to finish off, this is not a flame, neither is it ( well from my perspective anyway ) to say anything against you, i just am curious about your background.

oh one more thing, will there be seconds to validate the meeting, if not it will be pointless due to the fact either will say they won or it was a draw etc

cheers

[redfist]

your behavior is a disgrace to brazilian jujutsu practitioners,
i train in chinese kungfu and have had the pleasure
of also training bjj, these people are gentlemen in the truest
sense of the word,as far as training goes,
boisterouis behavior of any type was completely discouraged,
you are an embaresment to this fine art and to your instrutor,
you represent no one execpt yourself and your juvenile delinquency,print out your posts and read them in five years then tell us all then if you don`t agree,
it is my hope that you are just haveing fun by posting in this manner,if you are not and,you are serious,then you will end up either dead or in jail.

[straight blast]

i'm taking bets on how soon the wannabe son of rorion backs out. claim your times now -- the winner gets a cookie

I bet he does go to the fight & kicks the other dude's a$$. I bet all my money and the immortal soul of my pet rock.

Ralek, you are a true champion of the free thinking world. It's guys like you that lead the way for innovation, experimentation, and the smashing of obscure unimportant traditions/legends that hamper the growth of a Martial artist as an individual. I envy you & wish I could escape the mess of traditional martial arts & their ridiculous adherence to time proven strategies and methodologies that actually work.

Good luck Ralek, our hopes go with you. And if you have to pull out for unforseen reasons (praying for rain/hail/sleet/snow etc) then that's cool. Nobody doubts that you want to fight. It's just so hard making it to fights these days that no one will hold it against you. In fact they'll probably respect you for your non violent creed..."The art of fighting without fighting", as it were.

Bruce would be proud, Sifu.

[KnightSabre]

Ralek,you're one funny guy,
You make me smile and for that I like you.

Good luck in your fights.

[Ralek]

Kung fu is a poo poo style. Poo poo squat! WA tah!!!

JF Springer. You better take a bath before you fight me please.

[Royal Dragon]

I'm just waiting to see if Ralek even shows, to prove or dis prove my theory that he is actually a charecter penned by a writer (with a psyc. degree) hired by KFO to stir up the views (more hitts = more advertising $$).

Royal Dragon

[JF Springer]

RALEK: JF Springer. You better take a bath before you fight me please.

And the question is "Can a man with no nose still smell?"

[bean curd]

since relek will not answer me, JF i have to ask, why are you wasting your time on this kid !!!!!

[JF Springer]

Because he's right down the street from me, has continually shown his a$$ in public, and as a good citizen it behooves me to keep my side of the street clean.

Additionally, when I was his age there were a number of guys my age now that were willing to take the time to pound the snot out of me so that I could firmly grasp the reality of authentic, traditional, CMA. I owe, therefore, I pay.

[Ryu]

Actually Ralek is right. Judo did win in that fight. Apparently even Judo can beat BJJ too. Ralek's right. He made me realize that. A judoka named Masahiko Kimura beat the founder of BJJ to a pulp, and broke his arm in several places. I couldn't believe it. Then another judoka named Kazushi Sakuraba killed Royce Gracie in competition, breaking his leg, and destroying his emotional state. Then this judoka went on to beat Vitor Belfort, Conan Silveira, Renzo Gracie, and then Ryan Gracie came to defend BJJ's honor from the horrid reality of judo. But Ryan Gracie (the last great in the Gracie name) was destroyed easily by Kazushi Sakuraba's judo. Even Rickson Gracie refused to fight judo, admitting defeat in words alone.
It was really amazing. Ralek is right about judo being superior to BJJ and Kung Fu.
Ralek makes me want to train in the art that beat BJJ so badly.
Thanks Ralek!

Ryu

[Ralek]

Ryu. Sakuraba does not do judo. He does more of shootfighting. Judo sucks. And Sakuraba was training with a BJJ black belt i forget his name. Sakuraba used all BJJ moves to win. Name one move that isn't in BJJ.

And Helio was outweighed by 50 pounds in his fight with Kimura. And guess what. Carlson Gracie did what Kimura could not. Kimura had a draw with Santana in a no rules valetudo. But Carlson Gracie was able to defeat Santana 4 times. Read Kimuras book "my judo" and Kimura talks about how beat up he was from Santana. But Carlson Gracie easily defeated Santana 4 times.

[Ryu]

Actually, Kazushi does do judo. He started judo as his first martial art. And shooto is his style now. Shooto is judo and muay thai kickboxing. It says so in the style. It says "shooto is a mixture of judo, muaythai, and jiujitsu.
Kazushi is fighting judo. He uses throws (that is judo) He uses the "kimura" that is actually ude garami (that is judo) Kazushi used this to break Renzo's arm to pieces. Just like Masahiko did to his cousin's father all those years ago with the same move.
Ude garame is invincible. It destroyed all those Gracies.

Masahiko Kimura did ude garame to the founder of BJJ and shattered his arm. Helio Gracie almost died by the might of ude garame and judo. It was amazing.
Then Masahiko wrote "my judo" where he told how he became angry at Santana and had the demon in his mind scream "kill him!" Then Masahiko did something no other judoka had done before. He bloodied the dangerous santana! The same man who had also beaten Helio!
Masahiko beat them both with judo and the invincible ude garame.
As did the judoka Kazushi against all the other Gracies.

Simply amazing. Ude garame is invincible! No other style has ude garame.

Ryu


(God this is fun ****! :D I can see why Ralek likes it so much)

[Felipe Bido]

Man, I gotta give you recognition. That was excellent :D

Must suck to be Ralek.

Everybody here hates him, calls him names, and he sits here and TAKES IT.

Maybe he has a reason for being everybody's punching bag.

[Royal Dragon]

I think KFO hired him to stri up more posts and increase traffic so they can get more advertising dollars.

He's really a 44 year old writer or cartoonist with a Psyc degree.

It's the only thing that makes sense.

Royal Dragon

[shinwa]

Ryu that's pretty impressive haha. I just got finished wtching Sakuraba beat Royce a little over an hour ago. great stuff.

[Ralek]

And Royce won 3 out of the 6 rounds with Kasushi Sakuraba. And royce tapped out Sakuraba with a choke but the ref didn't see the tap so the fight kept going. If it were a real fight Royce would have won.

And Royce went for 1 hour 30 minutes in the Sakuraba fight. In 1 hour and 30 mintues, Sakuraba was not able to submit Royce. This proves that Sakuraba cannot defeat Rickson. Becuase Rickson has defeated Royce in 30 seconds. Sakuraba can't even beat Royce in 1 hour 30 minutes.

And Kimura did not beat Santana. The 40 minute time limit ran out and it was declared a draw. Kimura said that he had trouble breathing for weeks after the fight. Kimura got beat up. However Carlson Gracie was able to DEFEAT Santana 4 times!!!!!! Carlson Gracie puts Kimura to shame.

And Helio is not the founder of BJJ. Carlos Gracie is the founder and Carlson is better then Helio. The Santana fights prove it.

[Sharky]

"And royce tapped out Sakuraba with a choke but the ref didn't see the tap so the fight kept going."

this is true, from what i saw

[old jong]

This is a troll thread. You are feeding a troll!:rolleyes:

[shinwa]

What?!?! Sakuraba did not tap from any choke. Are you talking about when he was faking the tap in the corner? :rolleyes:

Royce did submit. What do you think throwing in the towel is. It's submitting. @_@ His freaking leg was shattered, he could hardly stand, let alone fight. Royce won 3 out of 6 rounds? There were NO decisions, he didnt win anything. Sakuraba wasn't even fighting the first couple of rounds, he was just mucking around. ven though he did come dam cloise to getting the Kimura AND the kneelock. That's alot closer than ROyce got to anything. Unless you consider those little lovetaps, light knees, and kicks that he was doing real attacks. :rolleyes: Royce lost to his own rules and he knows it. Which is why he congratulated Sakuraba after the fight

[Gigante]

This is great! I sure hope there will be a fight! Let's not try to discourage Ralek, ok? The fight must go on !

I think Ralek will whoop some a$$ !! GO RALEK !

But JF Springer, why no video? Come on now... without video, people will always debate what REALLY happened!

Could you at least take some pictures ?? Before and after??

[tnwingtsun]

Ralek writes like that robot from the 60s show "Lost in Space"

sounded,"Danger Will Robinson,run"

BJJ can't be beat by kung-fu.


He just might be some kind of weird KFO software.

[shinwa]

what is this "Carlson beat Santana and Kimura didn't so Carlson isbetter than Kimura" crap? Do you know anything about fighting at all kid? Some fighters adapt to different techniques and situations better than other. It's like, Just because fighter A beat fighter B an fighter C didn't. It doesn't mean that fighter A will necessarily bet fighter C. that's absurd. Every fight is unique and unique situations happens during them all. A brief distraction, a bad call, a thought at the wrong moment, or one guy just adapts to certain strategies better than the other. That STILL doesn't make him better than the guy who didn't. The only way to know that is if fighter A dn fighter C actually fight each other.

That's probably confusing as all hell, but i'm see you get the drift.
Hmm hw about this, just because I can beat Hwoarang with my Jin kazama, and you can'y beat hwoarang with your Kazuya Mishima. That DOESN"T mean that i can beat your Kazuya with my Jin. I just adapted to Hwoarangs method better than you did, but when we fight all that matters is if I can handle YOUR methods. Not some other fighter.

[Ralek]

Santana was a tough fighter. He had practiced BJJ for 12 years with Helio Gracie and got his black belt from Helio. He also did striking styles. Then Helio and Santana got into in argument and they became enemies. They fought for over 3 hours or something. Santana won by breaking Helio's arm. Helio got beat by his own student although his student was younger and much heavier than him.

Then Santana got to fight Kimura. If you have a book called "My Judo" by Kimura you will want to read the part where he fights Santana. Kimura talks about how he gets knocked unconcious but then the next strike wakes him back up again. The time limit ran out and they were not able to submit each other. Kimura was getting pummeled with roundhouses and was hanging on to survive.

Then the Legendary Carlson Gracie steps in. Carlson Gracie son of Carlos the founder of BJJ. Carlson defeats Santana 4 times!!!! Wow!!! Carlson did what Kimura only dreamed of doing. Kimura was put to shame by Carlson's heroic victories over Santana.

[Ralek]

Kimura was a good fighter. The fact that he was able to survive for 40 mintues with Santan is amazing. Santanna rarely lost in Vale Tudo. In fact, his only losses were with Carlson.

The fact that Kimura is not as skilled as Carlson is nothing to be ashamed about. Not everyone can reach Carlson's expert fighting abilities. Carlson wieghed less than Kimura, but was still able to do better against Santanna. Kimura was just a big ogre who used his wieght advantage to beat people. Kimura couldn't hang with skilled people his own size.

[Cranestyle]

I thought i heard somewhere that the Gracies agreed that BJJ was really just kodokan judo?

Judo is superior

[Jaguar Wong]

And Royce won 3 out of the 6 rounds with Kasushi Sakuraba. And royce tapped out Sakuraba with a choke but the ref didn't see the tap so the fight kept going. If it were a real fight Royce would have won.

OK, so the first three rounds actually went back and forth. You could have called them a draw, or they could gone either way. Sak almost had the kneebar in the first round, but the bell rang. you could say that if it were a real fight, Sak would have won. the last three rounds were ABSOLUTELY dominated by Sak, there is no question whatsoever.

As for the choke, yes Sak did tap, but the rules do state that it takes three taps to submit, and Sak only tapped twice. I don't know if he was playing around, trying to trick Royce, acknowledging something Royce said to him (there was some speculation that the tap was a response to Royce apologizing for an accidental knee to the groin...I don't know), or even if the ref even saw it. But, if it were a "real fight", the choke didn't work, because Sak got out of it. So whether he almost tapped or not, doesn't matter, because in the end the choke didn't work.

Now for the other half....Royce's leg was far from shattered. I don't know the extent of the injury, but people have been saying that it happened as early as round 2. I think it happened later, probably round 5 or 6, but at most it was probably a fracture in his foot or something along those lines. Please if someone knows the specifics, correct me if I'm wrong. I know it wasn't "shattered", though.

Kazushi Sakuraba is my new hero (after he beat Renzo), but I refuse to use his fight record as an example to how "ineffective" bjj is. That's not how fighting skill works. That's like the coat tail riding lineage mongers that don't train as hard as they should, because their "lineage is pure". I like Sak because he's just plain messed up in the head. He makes up moves on the spot, so now to answer Ralek's other demand...

"name one move that isn't in BJJ":
double mongolian chop from inside the guard, flying guard pass stomp, right cross, hook, low roundhouse, single leg takedown, high roundhouse...you know, the stuff that actually won the fight for Sak. ;)

His so-called BJJ training didn't work because Royce is much better than Sak, so he had to rely on Royce's weakness. It's called cross training. Maybe you should actually start training, so you can understand this concept fully.