Spiderman vs master of KungFu [Archive]

@PLUGO

01-10-2002, 01:20 PM

Mostly seriously overpriced, but there are gems to be found...

Marvel is producing it's Ultimate line of comics as an upscale retelling of it's own original stories... Sort of like a comic version of a movie remake, take Planet of the apes for instance...

So if you like Spiderman but hate where the past 10+ years has brought the charactor, then you can read Ultimate Spiderman to have a taste of what spiderman would be like if he first got his powers in the 90's intead of the 60's...

Still I would recomend picking up current issues of Amazing Spiderman as the new writer has sort of returned to it's roots & is doing so quite well.

In the mean time Ultimate marvel team-up is functioning to reintroduce classic heroes in a much more modern sence... I would speculate that rather than a Shang Chi influenced by the popularity of Bruce Lee, we may see him as influenced by the modern spectial of martial arts... Jet Li, the matrix, etc... we'll have to see eh?

On the state of comics in general:

Marvel has been agressively seeking to regain a reputation for quality...

New X men has reciently taken the comic beyond the movie, great stuff.

Daredevil returning to a more crime-noir grit...

their MARVEL KNIGHTS line of comics (look for the MK) is closer to PG13 or perhaps R ratings in movies...
...actually marvel is starting to "rate" their comics ina similar manor... PG, G, etc...

They've developed a MAX line which functions as much more of an R rated ADULT themed book...

To varying successes...

Meanwhile IMAGE is moving to a more "independant" stance with the stuff they put out...

And DC is now the Giant producing tons of stuff in every direction... they have subdivisions Like WILDSTROM & AMERICA's BEST COMICS/ ABC that are truely publishing some gems...

@PLUGO

01-10-2002, 01:29 PM

http://marvel.com/comics/onsale/0102/covers/manga_spidey.jpg

for More... (http://marvel.com/comics/onsale/0102/manga_spidey.htm)
:p

Leonidas

01-10-2002, 03:55 PM

I used to be a hardcore Marvel-head but they ****ed me off with all the different super-powered mutants every month. It seemed like every mutant had the capability to destroy the world which took away from the real important characters. If you put everyone on a pedestal then no one is really special. Then you have to keep up with 1000's of old characters. My main problem with the mutant X gene excuse is the unbelievable powers most mutants developed. When i think of a mutant i'm thinking of Wolverine, Toad, Sabertooth, Beast, Angel, etc. Something with an extra limb, even alittle fur and a fang or two. Even telepaths are excusable, but people like Magneto??. I'm not thinking of someone who could blast a HOLE into Earth. They still have an edge over regular humans but not to the point of absurdity. Wolverine and Spiderman are still the coolest characters and atleast they have reasons for being that way.

Shaolindynasty

01-11-2002, 11:50 AM

Actually Magneto was the first enemy the x men ever fought. Personally I prefer the x men of the 80's with Nightcrawler, collosus, wolverine, cyclops(somtimes), with storm as the leader. I also liked the Mark bagley spiderman era but they got to ridiculous with the clone stuff, it was just to confusing. Comics cost to much these days, I think they should do without the high gloss pages and return to news print, much better feel for me. Maybe I am just to nostalgic.....wait that can't be I was born in 1980. I guess I just like old stuff. The essential series is great!

dwid

01-11-2002, 01:14 PM

But I've recently come back to them. It seemed like for a while, comic art became so important that nobody cared to write a decent story, especially when all the new companies splintered off of Marvel and DC. Anyway, I find it bothersome to keep up with a continuous series, but I'm really getting into graphic novels lately. I recently discovered the re-issues of Lone Wolf and Cub, and all of Frank Miller's stuff that I've seen is awesome.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Jimbo

01-11-2002, 05:40 PM

I still have the old mid-1970's special issue where Spiderman fights then teams up with Shang-Chi. I was a big Marvel Comics fan all throughout the '70s but lost interst in the early '80s. I have looked at various comics now and then in recent years and feel underwhelmed. All the Marvel Comics (the only ones I liked, though I read a lot of Japanese Mangas in Taiwan in the early '90s) look the same, it seems almost everyone is built about 10 times more muscular than the biggest WWF superstars, and have evil, monster-like faces.

Well, that's the impression i got from the bit I've bothered to try to read. I liked the old stories that seemed to be more interesting and go deeper. Just my opinion. :)
Jim

Shaolindynasty

01-11-2002, 08:15 PM

It seems to me that even though alot of the "stories" (if you'd call em that) have alot of mass destruction and the world hangs in the balance, they just don't seem as epic as some of the older stuff. I don't think the old stories went very deep but they were alot grander then. Remeber when spidey had to balance being a superhero, going to college, helping aunt may and having girl trouble? Those were the good old days. Even the early 90's were good, they still maintained some of the elements that made stories classic. In my opinon things took a turn for the worse when they made gory, violent, over exagerated artwork. Soon that beame more important than a good story. That is just my opinon though I mean I prefer heros like Spidey, Hulk, Silver Surfer, Fantastic Four, Avengers and even Captin America. X men were ok but I think wolverine is highly over rated. DC I never cared for much and it seems like marvel went down the same path with the unbeleiveable(even for superheros) type stories.

01-16-2002, 06:24 AM

The old Marvels were still rooted in reality and the characters had more depth.

Today, the characters are either Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Keanu Reeves from Matrix types.

For example, the old Thors had all sorts of matchups against "real" characters in mythology. I have a "Giant-Sized Annual" in which Thor gets beaten to a pulp by the Greek mythology god Zeus.

What I liked most about Shang Chi is that for the most part, he was a BELIEVABLE superhero.

Jimbo

01-16-2002, 01:19 PM

I agree the older Marvels had more story depth. In the '70s several of the superheroes had serious self-doubts (Thor, Captain America, Spiderman, etc.); or alcohol problems (Iron Man). There were drug issues (Peter Parker trying to help his friend Harry Osborne with a drub problem), race issues, a Satanic church (Tomb of Dracula), etc. They seemed to mix the social reality of the times and everyday life in a believeable way the modern comics cannot.

As for Thor, there was a period of time where Hercules was a regular in the comic. In one of my old Thor's from '74 there is a man who becomes possessed by the spirit of the first human, becoming a superhuman Neanderthal who beats Hercules easily, and gives Thor a good fight...very unusual one-time story.
Jim

01-17-2002, 03:50 PM

Most of those Marvel superheroes were more believable than the wacked celebrities running around in real life doing crazy stuff nowadays!

@PLUGO

01-25-2002, 07:22 PM

The Ninja/Manga Spiderman Comic we were just talking about hit the comic shops this week...

OK.... really only OK

cute art though...

Chinwoo-er

01-29-2002, 09:26 AM

How well do you think Wolverine will do against any non-superpowered characters ie, Electra, Shang Chi, etc if he hadn't had that cheating mutant healing factor ?

Shaolindynasty

01-29-2002, 10:14 AM

Wolverine is way over rated. Most characters in the marvel universe should be able to beat him but the fans like his "attitude" so he wins his fights.

Remeber Spider man vs. wolverine? I think it ended in a draw but spider man was kicking his @$$ but neither could really win cause it would upset fans. Marvel does that allot.

The award for most over rated character goes to
wolverine

The award for most under rated character goes to
the silver surfer

remeber those old marvel trading cards with the power ratings on the back? Silver surfer was one of like 3 characters who rated off the charts in everthing

01-29-2002, 10:27 AM

I think Wolverine would do just fine.

His real power is in his MIND. This guy has been beaten before physically but has won in the end.

Against Shang Chi or Electra, he'd fight to a draw with or without his superpowers.

He'd cunningly use guile to even the odds - not that Chi or Electra wouldn't.

Shaolindynasty

01-30-2002, 11:06 AM

Wolverine sucks face it:D
I liked him allot better back in the old X-men days when it was him, nightcrawler, collossus, storm as the leader etc. Before the x-men had 2 teams(blue and gold)

I'd still read him rather than the Image garbage like Spawn(spawn tends to be alittle over complicated at times, it just seems like Todd Mcfarlene was using this book to showcase his art. The whole series survived completly off the art in my opinon)

When i put him next to all the other marvel characters he is ok but definatly not my favorite. Instead of all the darkness I prefer somebody like Spidey who can make cracks even as he gets his @$$ kicked, I also like Dead Pool for the same reason.

Actually I am probally burnt out on him cause when I was little I had a friend who worshiped wolverine and the punisher and I had to defend every other hero to him if they didn't have the "waste them all" attitude.

@PLUGO

01-30-2002, 02:02 PM

there a Series (http://marvel.com/comics/onsale/0102/redeemer_3.htm) out right now with Wolverine & Eletreka...

Otherwise I believe Wolverine is being written best in New-X-meN these days... if any of you are curious, I would recomend picking it up... it's a sort of cros between those Oldskool X-men days spliced with some of the movie sensibilities....

There's also a New Silver surfer Graphic Novel due out this Year... by the same team that's doing NXM. I suspect it will ROCK.

Overall Wolvie is quite a bit overrated...but asking who would beat him if he didn't have his mutation is sort of like asking who would beat spiderman if he wasn't bitten by a radio active spider... to answer that one...anyone.

Part of what makes Wolverine, Wolverine IS his mutation. He's taken on Hordes of Ninja assassins... & his debut bought was against the Hulk (Loooooong before he even joined the X-men) So... Yeah he's prettymuch a badass... Surley Silver Surfer would just Zap him & all that would be left is his Adamantium skelaton... maybe.

Shan Chi is probably the superior Martial Artist but he wouldn't be able to break any bones... Bruises & torn ligaments would heal instantly and he runs the rist of breaking his own fist against Wolverine's skull. Besides, wolverines just doesn't get tired, Shan Chi would probably fare better against a bear or tiger.

Elektra's best weapon is her sex apeal. In a one on one she would have to be super sneaky just to survive wolvie & Shang Chi... However, one she gets them in the bedroom they are doomed.
Wolverine might survive castration
:eek:

Kristoffer

01-31-2002, 04:53 AM

OH MY GOD!!!! a comic thread!! How the hell have I missed this??
---------------

I was like THE hugest comic fan for only 2-3 years ago! I mostly read Marvel comics and various Image or some new 'cool' stuff like those Cliffhangers (Battle Chasers only actually). My all-time favv was Spider-Man. :D He is THE coolest ever haha..
Anyway.. I stoped reading spider man. (thus making me stop reading all comics coz I knew that I would buy it anyway, i didnt wanna waste my money so i had to stop)
I stoped reading Spider-Man when Marvel was in all that chapter 11 limbo, u know when they were like bancrupt. that and the clone saga made me just STOP :(

3 years later, my pal buys a wizard (the latest wich analyses the year of comics...

WHAT A MIND-BLOW!! ****!!! Aperantly marvel is like the best company out there and all comics are like extremly popular and ****ing great too!!?? This made me go.. "d.amn" :D I leave? And then it all goes great? ****!! anyway so now Im all like..? What did I miss? What happened in Image? What has happened in MARVEL? and what the HELL happened to Spider Man? He's a manga Ninja? And what's that origin? They are writing the past of Wolvie? What was it??? Who was he? Please write everything about this, anyone?

Oh and what has happened in daredevil? Wich # is it up to now? I left when Mackie took over from Smith,, oh and How many trade paperbacks of the new line of DD is there out there now?

d.aaamn :(

Chang Style Novice

01-31-2002, 07:03 AM

Don't get me started on that bought-and-paid-for piece of crap that is Wizard magazine. Read the Comics Journal instead - they focus on literary style criticism instead of press release rewrites.

In fact, don't get me started on the idea that all comic books should have tons of 'action' and 'cool' storylines.

I prefer comics like Eightball, Frank, Berlin, Hate, Optic Nerve, Patty Cake, Love and Rockets, etc. I still by pretty much anything by Alan Moore, but the ABC comics aren't up to par with his best work, like From Hell and Lost Girls. Concrete is pretty great for a pseudo-superhero book, but it hardly ever comes out. I love comic strips, too, especially Mutts, Zippy the Pinhead, Boondocks, and especially expecially Lynda Barry's Ernie Pook's Comeek. And did you ever notice the recurring symbols on floor-pies, ufos, upside down birds, crowns, and a number of other things in the Bizarro panel? They have a hidden meaning...

Kristoffer

01-31-2002, 07:40 AM

"And did you ever notice the recurring symbols on floor-pies, ufos, upside down
birds, crowns, and a number of other things in the Bizarro panel? They have a hidden
meaning..."

Really? What is that? (I love that comic BTW)

Chang Style Novice

01-31-2002, 08:14 AM

It's all laid out at the bizarro website.

Shaolindynasty

01-31-2002, 12:06 PM

"There's also a New Silver surfer Graphic Novel due out this Year"

More info please!

Also what SS Graphic novels are out now? I only have 2 one is the rebirth of Thanos and the other is the essential SS. I can't find any others. Are there any?

I was never a regular reader of Silver Surfer but I was always a great fan and read the books whenever possible. Next to Spidey he is my favorite. I also read Fantastic four whenever I could but Spidey was the only hero that I was regular about.

Kristopher- I stopped reading Spiderman around the clone saga to. I think it was a ridiculous and confusing story, I think it went back and forth to much about who was the real spiderman.

I stopped read X-men waaay back during the age of apocolypse. Time travel stories get on my nerves. The only one I ever like was the Wildstar mini series and looking back I don't know why.

Now I just collect some of the older stuff, all in graphic novel form. I enjoy the stories. Especially crossovers like the Secret wars from the 80's and the infinaty Guantlet. I would like to get the infinity war but I don't think it's been released as a graphic novel.

@PLUGO

01-31-2002, 01:11 PM

Just over the past year marvel placed Joe Quesdia into the role of editor in Chief... One of his main objectives was to restore a much more creative marvel.

He's been working hard to achieve this goal & had generally been successful.

His first mission was to Bring Dare Devil to the forefront... Creating the Marvel Knights line for edgier comic stories...
Since then Dare Devil has generally ROCKED... it's opening storyline has been collected as a graphic Novel... Written by Kevin Smith ( writer/director of movies like Clerks, chasing Amy, Dogma & Jay & Silent Bob strike back) Since then the Crime Noir feel has been a major aspect DD these days...

Anyone who stopped reading X-men in disgust should go out and pick up...

The latest New X meN graphic novel titled E is for extinction.

http://www.marvel.com/comics/bios/actionshots/xtras/new_xmen.jpg

They are still publishing Uncanny X-men which is OK... & they've created Xtreme X-men which is pretty crappy T & A for adolecient boys... New X meN however is written for the more intelligent reader with a tip of the hat to what was...

Spiderman has also been revived... Most notably Amazing Spiderman who just reciently delt with the events of 9/11 and has been freed of the crap writting that resulted in that "clone Saga" ...

For any of you that loved Spidey... the Spidy you miss is Back, in time for his comming Movie!!!

The manga thing is one of the many experiments marvel has been delving into.

Wolverine's Origin is being told. it's OK
a sample can be found here. (http://dotcomics.marvel.com/menu_flash.htm)

There's not much info out about Silver Surfer that i can find... it's going to be written by Grant Morrison & drawn by Frank Quietly... the same folks responsible for New X meN.

Not sure when it'll be out some time this year... probably late summer.

Marvel isn't the only company focusing again of quality Writting as well as art...

Image is devoting more & more resources towards Independant themes & deemphasising the "superhero' aspect.

DC has it's standard super hero stuff as well as...

Wildstorm... which is more of a rated R version of superheroes...

Vertigo... which is adult oriented comics... Horror, Fantasy, crime noir, etc.

Alan Moore's ABC line is thoroughly enjoyable...Top 10 & Promethea I highly recomend... granted his From Hell is a cut above the rest as comics go... yet it's so satisfying to see quality work comming out with some measure of consistancy... Check out League of Extraordinary Gentlemen if you enjoyed From Hell.

I would recomend that any of you who have stopped picking up your favorite for some time now, drop by your local comic shop and have look... you may well be pleased with what u find.

:p

Kristoffer

02-01-2002, 06:31 AM

Thanks alot!!!!

"I would recomend that any of you who have stopped picking up your
favorite for some time now, drop by your local comic shop and have look...
you may well be pleased with what u find."

yeah I think so too...
But it feel as if I missed so much story.. I mean, I have no Idea how they solved the clone saga crap and that bearded guy's follow up and re make (I hate his guts for that one)

@PLUGO

02-01-2002, 12:39 PM

Don't even worry about it... They are treating it as if it was all a bad dream!!!

Peter Parker is Spiderman... divorced or widowed from Mary Jane... He's a science teacher at the high school he used to attend... & Aunt May still does his laundry every other week!!!

have any of you seen marvel's Dot Comics (http://dotcomics.marvel.com/menu_flash.htm?section=marvel)

there's an Amazing Spiderman story available online... 4 Free!!!

Shaolindynasty

02-01-2002, 01:52 PM

"Aunt May still does his laundry every other week!!!"
:confused: Didn't she die in issue #400, I know she did I have that! How did she come back?

Did MJ ever have that baby? If so did it have any powers or anything?

I was thinking of checking out that new spider man. The one "retold for younger generation" Then I can start over from scratch with out all the confusion. I looked at the graphic novel in Barnes and Noble and there was a funny part where aunt may was tellin peter about "being safe" after she caught him and mary jane making out in his room. Now I'm off to check out that free spidey dot-comic

@PLUGO

02-01-2002, 06:54 PM

I bunch of stuff was simply written off as if it didn't happen...

MJ, is out of the picture...

Aunt May is back in...

What did U think about the dot-comics...

Oh yeah, that "being safe" bit was great!!! :D

Shaolindynasty

02-03-2002, 11:54 AM

"bunch of stuff was simply written off as if it didn't happen...

MJ, is out of the picture...

Aunt May is back in..."

What? So one issue they just decided to change everything and gave no explenation as to what happened? Was there a break or somthing between issues where the whole spidey universe was just changed?

This is to confusing I think I'll go check out Ultimate spiderman and just start over. That "being safe" thing won me over on the books humor.

That dot comic was cool. I didn't read the whole thing cause my computer is too slow and I didn't have time but it's a really cool.

Kristoffer

02-04-2002, 03:48 AM

If they never did any explanation.. how is it so good?

@PLUGO

02-05-2002, 03:07 PM

When the New Writter took over Amazing Spiderman, there was a bit of a whoHAA about it...

I think it was issue 35 (not so sure) but they prettymuch announced that after a bit of a break they would bring on this new writter 7 things would be "different"

I guess the sales where so LOW that there wasn't as much of a need to connected to what's been going on previously... and it was more important to the editors to get the ball rolling again from a fresher starting point for the "new" readers that they are hoping to attract... or readers like myself who haven't really bothered to look at an issue since the Clone Saga...

Remember Aunt May died in issue 400... well not long after that, they attempted to relaunch the series with a #1... yet it seems that only as of the past half dozen issues has the comic gotten readable...

For me it's easier to believe that she didn't die & that those stories where simply "bad dreams" than to worry about ridgid continuity...

Ultimate Spiderman's pretty good...

Yet I'll still recomend picking up an issue of Amazing Spiderman... and seeing if it apeals to the spider in you...

my $0.o2

Shaolindynasty

02-06-2002, 09:42 AM

"I guess the sales where so LOW that there wasn't as much of a need to connected to what's been going on previously"

I can definatly see that since I was a HUGE spidey fan my whole life but quite reading during the "clone saga". That thing left a bad taste in my mouth

@PLUGO

02-06-2002, 04:05 PM

The newest issue of Amazing Spiderman just came out at the comic shops today...

haven't read it yet... I'll let you know how it is.... :p

Kristoffer

02-07-2002, 03:33 AM

please do that :D

@PLUGO

02-07-2002, 01:42 PM

After Getting his but whipped by this new villian Spiderman defeats him & bairly make his way home where he passes out in bed... still wearing the remains of his costume...

Aunt may comes over to pick-up his Laundry only to find Peter passed out bruised in tattered costume...

She spends the following day contemplating the fact that her nephew Peter is actually Spiderman... & this issue she confronts him.

With the tattered costume in hand she demands honesty from Peter who's been Lying about his activities for So long...

It's a classic "comming out" conversation where she admits that there's always been something odd about Peter & had often wondered if he was "gay or something"...
Peter comes clean about his guilt for the death of Uncle Ben & his own
With Great Power comes great responsibility motive for being Spiderman.

Aunt May comes clean with a secret of her own... related to that fateful night.

Eventually the topic of Why Peter let's everyone believe Spiderman is Bad comes up... "Well not every one, just the people who read the Daily Bugle...oh, most everyone..."

Could this foreshadow a future Aunt May vs. J. Jonah Jameson Battle on the editorial pages of the Bugle?

hmmmmm...

GREAT ART too...

Kristoffer

02-16-2002, 05:02 PM

cool!

"
Aunt May comes clean with a secret of her own... related to that fateful
night. "

ya GOTTA tell me this..! :D

Brad

02-17-2002, 11:08 AM

The new Amazing Spidey writter, J. Michael Strazynski, also wrote Babalon 5, and has his own line of comics, curently consisting of Rising Stars and Midnight Nation(very cool stuff). After reading his first few Amazing S. issues, I think I'll start reading that.
Does anyone read Dark Minds or Warlands? Pat Lee is an amazing artist. He's doing a new Transormers comic. I also want to check out the new GI Joe series.

Leonidas

02-17-2002, 11:09 AM

Yea man, you can't leave us hanging. :D :D :D

I think i will start reading comic again....................on a side note i have some of the Infinity Gauntlet story, some of the Infinity Wars and a few issues of the first issues of Wralock and the Infinity Watch, Many issues of old and new Silver Surfer, some Hulk, Ghostrider and miscellaneous. I had the first issues of GenX but that flopped so i dont know where i put 'em....................Aw man, now your gonna make me did up my old comics. Its a nightmare.

Shaolindynasty

02-17-2002, 02:21 PM

Hey how much for a subscription to Amazing what's the cover price now? I started looking and all the comic shops around here closed since I stopped reading!!!

Did Aunt may really say she thought he was gay? If so Bwahahahaha

Looks like it's back to spidey for me, I always loved the comical blows to spidey's ego. I think I am also going to pick up Ultimate spidey(even though the titles corny, in the marvel universe everything is ultimate:rolleyes: ).

Thanks design sifu you're my new hero.

Could somebody tell me when that spidey movie is gonna be out?

@PLUGO

02-18-2002, 02:19 PM

Spidey should be hitting the Big Screens in MAY... the 4th?

on the secret of AUNT MAY:

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
:
:
:
:
:

Apparantly She & Uncle Ben got into an arguement that night & she sort of Kicked him out of the house... when he went for a walk to cool off he ran into the Burgler that Killed him... She always blamed herself for his Death, Oblivious of Peter's doing the exact same thing. Ironic no?

While we're on the topic... the Newest New X meN is also at the comic shops... check it out!!!

On subscriptions... Check the Marvel website...

But I would try my luck hunting down a good comic shop myself...You'll get books earlier & they won't be folded to fit into your mail-box.

@PLUGO

04-11-2002, 05:12 PM

Well, it just hit the comic shops yesterday... So what can I say about Spiderman's meeting with Shan Chi master of Kungfu???

remixed for the 21st century...

IT ROCKED!!!

With Art by RICK MAYES... it captured all the right points...

exceptional Kungfu choregraphy as told through sequesntial art... beautifully illustrated... fun dialogue... funny moments!!!

A tip of the hat to classic Chinese brush paintings...

I recomend that all of you go & buy it!!!

or at least flip through the pages in the SHOP!!!

KUNGFU is hitting the comic mainstream... or should I say it's making a comeback!!!