front or side to opponent.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

my sifu and the dragons are always getting on my case to keep my side to my opponent more, but i really preffer to be facing my them at an angel. i like to have my 4 main weapons closer to their targets.

while i can see the advantage to angle stepping and pivoting to return sideways, i find it allot easier to sidestep into your power attacks like hooks, uppercuts, knees, elbows facing them.

which do you guys prefer?

[Mr Nunchaku]

Good point. In TKD normally we almost always face at an angle, typically in front or back stance. However, I would say about a third of the time the typical TKD guy will stand sideways, almost always in middle stance. I say that there is no true way, but I like to face my opponent at an angle, as you said. I seem to be ready for anything like this. I only go sideways for a certain situation then I'll go out of it again. So basically I agree with you.

[jon]

I think a side on stance is more defensive, as if you gaurd correctly the internal organs are very hard to reach from a good side gaurd. The other side is you dont have easy access to you weapons so it shuts off some avenues of attack.
Front on is better for attacking and side is better for defending, you can usualy also move forward and backward quicker from a side gaurd than you can from a front.
Im lucky in my art we just go on the fly, side on, front on whatever gets you though the night;)

[Mr Nunchaku]

The fastest way to move forward when at an angle is simply going forward step by step, and the means you open up your body for a brief moment. And trust me, I have eaten many sidekicks that way.

[jon]

I personaly think that kinda skipping step thats executed from a side stance is a very fast and defensive way of advancing. Like the move Bruce Lee used to use with his famous striding sidekick.
As to which would be technicaly faster im sure running forward would be[not your example i know] but thats not something im gonna try in a fight;)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

we do both as well, but i never seem to find the need for a more defensive position. the only time i completely turn to the side is for stepping through with a shoulder strike in close. not saying i don't get hit, but i have short arms so i like to get in and attack quick. and i want to be packing something worthwhile when i do get in.

the other major advantage to standing sideways though, is your groin is closed. no matter how slight of an angle you take, someone who's on the ball is going to catch it if you accidentally straddle their line of attack. if they time it right you're going to be hard pressed to defend. of course the better you get the less you probably do that. i wouldn't know about being good but i like to have opinions anyway.

[Mr Nunchaku]

The hopping you are talking about (not sure of a correct name) is very effective). My instuctor likes to hop away in a sidestance to lure you in and hit you in the body with a side kick.

The side kick, back fist, and outward knife hand strike are a few examples of techniques that are most powerful from a middle stance (side stance).

[scotty1]

"i wouldn't know about being good but i like to have opinions anyway."

I'm with you on that mate.

Mind if I nick it for my signature?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i agree with the side kick, but i think i think you can get allot of waist torque behind a back fist or a knife hand at an angle.

i'm also not saying you don't have powerful weapons from the side, just that you have more options at an angle.

[Mr Nunchaku]

Of all the comic genius that comes out of GDA you chose THAT to be your sig? heh

Anyway, this may be a little off subject...but moving in a wheelchair and not getting creamed is a little trickey. Though I don't actually go into a front stance or middle stance, I use those terms for when my body goes into those positions. Think about the wheels, you can't side step. And I can't make my wheelchair jump back or forward. This makes it hard to move anywhere without opening my body. However, I find myself spin attacking a lot (maybe too much). Spin back fists or whatever are easy and make one way to move foward. Another is when I am facing at an angle I move so that I almost go past the opponent. When I am next to the opponent I am in a side stance (and so is he now, usually).

[Mr Nunchaku]

Yeah definitely. Even a simple reverse punch isn't much good in a side stance. And though you are more defensive standing there in a side stance, I say you are just as defensive standing at an angle using all your limbs.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Mr Nunchaku . .. i was gonna ask about that.

i'm not being a d!ck for a second, and there are probably reasons why you don't do these things, but i was curious . ..

if you can fight from your knees wouldn't that make you a little more mobile or is it to much of a strain on the legs?

also would really strong braces allow you to stand and move if you got used to it?

[Mr Nunchaku]

good questions

When I am at home I often spar my brother on my knees (dang he is tall). It feels pretty good. But as for mobility I am super slow moving in any direction. I usually just kind of fall backward onto all fours and I can go pretty dang fast that way (now that is tiger form kung fu! I actually get on all fours!), but no real quick side steps or moving forward.

I really prefer in my chair though. In my chair I am much more stable. On my knees I can too easily get knocked over and my weak foundation means weak techniques. Its like deflecting something when you are standing on something that shifts. In my chair I don't have to worry about any of that. But the chair vs. on my knees is very different, both have dis/advantages. The main disadvantage in the chair is having one move out of use occasionally to do something to a wheel.

That really didn't answer your question but I guess all I can say is that in my chair I feel like my moves are stronger and in real life I won't be walking around on my knees but I will be in my chair (most likely).

Oh yeah. When I use nunchuks I am ALWAYS out of my wheelchair. The chair just gets in the way too much. If I really wanted to use them to defend myself I'd get in my chair, but to do all the fancey techniques I need to be on my knees.

[Mr Nunchaku]

As for braces. I used to be able to walk a bit with braces. They made my legs feel more stable. However, doing any kind of fighting would be a bad idea. You could just look at me wrong and I would fall over.

Now the only walking I do is with a walker. I'm trying to build up enough strength to do something healthy like chi kung without a walker. But I fighting standing is out of the question, for now anyway.

[Buby]

I'm going to assume we talking about a side horse and front stance.

Even in a front stance you should still be able to cover your groin if you holding it properly. Try this...

Get in Front stance
turn front foot in 45 degrees
your front knee should be even with your front foot/toes
your back leg shouldn't be to far back (so get comfortable, with slight bend in back knee)
tuck in your as$
Now try to hit yourself in the ding ding as if being attacked with a groin kick

I fight from my front stance and only move into horse as my techn. dictates too. I perfer my front stance, because it allows me to use a greater variety of attacks. Plus why start out a fight in a stance you consider defensive, when you can start it off offensive. In a fight the mindset has to be right, if not, you'll be on the defensive through out the whole fight. In other words, why parry a punch, when I can soy kuil(hammer fist/parry with a smash) it.

I'ld rather be doing the smashing and not trying to get ready for it. You should train your stances to "defend" against kicks, you would be amazed at how good they really work.

Be easy,
Buby

[SanHeChuan]

i like the cat stance, and i shuffle back and sidekick very effectively (i sould like rolls) from that stance. i prefere a forward stance my self. it also would seem easier to move at angles from a forward stance as well, but maybe thats just me. i think i'm gonna try to incorperate a side stance more next time i spar and see what happens.

[Ray Pina]

Tricky Question!

TKD and a lot of Karate take a side stance, well, to protect that small area that is legal to hit: waist to chest. Turning side ways blocks it, and all you have to defend against is that piercing side kick.

On the street, someone will step to your back side, and put something in your back or the back of the head; no rules on the street.

At the same time, I do take a side, no one in specific, but I keep one foot back to have a strong pushing angle. I also will have a strong side regarding my fist, with the other backing it up, often connected to the forarwd forerarm for extra pushing/driving power -- at the same time I am kind of squared up, not so overtly side stanced at the pre-engagement stage.

BUT, once the attack comes I will go outside maybe, that will look like I'm taking a side aproach if you took a photo, but just changing the perspective, I'm square to the attacker, sideways to how I was earlier. IF I go inside I stay square until I commit, then I step all the way through and follow thorugh, which will look sideways as well.


I guess my point is don't OVER commit to anything, until you commit. Taking a huge side stance from the start can be limiting, and is one of my concerns with point sparring, some turn their back pratically.

[jon]

I just wanted to say [and i hope you dont take this the wrong way] i think its fantastic you do martial arts in a wheelchair. It shows you have the true spirit of a martial artist and thats what it all boils down to really. Props to you i think thats really great:D
Ive seen a video before of a martial artist who was chairbound and there self defence was nothing short of ammazing it really opened my eyes. We all have our issues to work though in a physical way but to do what you do requires both bravery and intelligence.
Starting to ramble just im in a good mood tonight but im impressed, your both a gentlemen and a warrior in the true sence of the word.
Hats off Mr Nunchaku.

[Mutant]

i don't fight sideways, i think it greatly limits your weapons and movement. tkd & karate are mostly linear styles that rely on staying outside, the fighers shuffling in and out.

while youre giving up less area to be attacked, this is a conservative approach that i believe has its limitations. i also think people tend to underestimate their opponents ability to adjust and blow through their sideways defense, feeling more protected than they actually are.

turning more to face your oppenent, i think its much easier to break in any direction to avoid being hit, while staying close and inside, with more possible counter techniques at your disposal. also, there is much more variety to your attack possibilites....if you can only attack with a certain linear motion and limited weapons, then youre easier to predict.

think of this example from military history, the naval battle between the battleships h.m.s. hood and the german bismark.
the hood turned perpendicular to the bismark, to cut down its apperant mass and present a smaller profile target. the bismark turned broadside, presenting more of a target, but able to utilized all of its possible firepower, turning all of its main guns on the hood, which were accurate enough to still hit the hoods narrow profile.
you may recall that the bismark sank the hood, while suffering very little damage.

i think that fighting sideways is easier to learn and should be understood. don't get me wrong, at times (for an instant) it is good to close your 'gates' and close off target area, but facing (not square, but at an angle) is the way to go, albeit more complicated and harder to gain proficiency

[red5angel]

I think I have to go with the front stance, more options there and I believe more mobility. I used to study karate, where we took a side stance often, and it never felt right for me. Now I study wing chun and I like opening up all of my 'weapons'. Not only that but for me, I am more manueverable in this way.

[KC Elbows]

I think I might be a little confused about the terminology here. When facing off, I'm at a slight angle, enabling both hands to take part in defense and allowing easy positioning for either hand to take part in an attack. The angle is not very much, enough to be in attack position, but not so much that it exposes my groin. In manuevering, I guess I might face my opponent. For example, if I step 45 toward my opponent(usually, I like to do this at the moment we end up in a parallel stance, as this gives me more access to their weak side), my body will be facing the opponent, but they will have to attack at a 45 to get me. That's just a transitional stance, and I'll immediately step into them at the slight angle I started in, but I will be approaching their open side, as opposed to their front.

However, unless I am at the end of a technique that calls for it, I don't think I'm ever at a complete sideways stance, i.e. if a line is drawn from my opponents front(the direction he is facing) my feet are never both on this line, and if I am in a similar stance at the end of a technique, and the technique is successful, then the opponent is no longer occupying that space, and so I am not in a sideways stance in relation to the opponent. Complete sideways seems too limited on attack, and I don't quite understand how it could be more defensive, as your weakest zone, your back, is more exposed to the opponent than if you were at a slight angle.

Also, whoever commented that this slight angle could be maintained AND the groin covered by positioning the lead foot in the correct posture is correct. Pa kua makes a lot of use of this, as do other styles.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i agree that the groin can be well protected at an angle, but not as easily as when it's completely closed. what i meant by someone timing their attack right could be waiting for you to take a step and attacking you during the step. even the angle step kc elbows mentioned (which i also use often) can leave you open for a groin kick mid step. i say this because i have a friend who is notorious for doing this. he's extremely fast and accurate and will always be looking for a way to catch you before your step is complete.

again i prefer to be at an angle because of all the reasons everyone has stated, and think it's best to be proficient at both, but i do think it's easier to defend when to the side. you are less of a target and still have your rear appendages as back up if something does get through.

as a side note, the front stance (you mean "L" stance i assume) could be used both ways. usually people are angled in this stance, but i have seen some take side positioning.

[Mr Nunchaku]

Thanks Jon I appreciate that. I don't think I'm very brave, but I sure as heck KNOW that I'm not so intelligent, lol. Anyway thanks.

[fa_jing]

I have enough problems keeping my opponent from getting behing me in a front stance. To me a side stance is dangerous because if you make a mistake and the opponent gets behind you, the fight could be over. Of course, getting kicked in the nads can lose you the fight too, it's important to keep that lead leg turned in, and be ready to lift your knee. I'm not oh so good at stopping the groin shot, but surprisingly back in my TKD days, I used the side-facing stance exclusively, and got hit in the balls plenty.

-FJ